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This might be a little tougher than Putin thought...

Been thinking about this in regards to the war.

Is portraying the Russians as a clown show military helping Ukraine or hindering it?

By this I mean....obviously Ukraine is facing stiff resistance with their offensive. They have been asking for aircraft, longer range missiles ect....

Maybe portraying Russia as a tough adversary would provide more impetus for the support they need....
 
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Been thinking about this in regards to the war.

Is portraying the Russians as a clown show military helping Ukraine or hindering it?

By this I mean....obviously Ukraine is facing stiff resistance with their offensive. They have been asking for aircraft, longer range missiles ect....

Maybe portraying Russia as a tough adversary would provide more impetus for the support they need....

Helping
 
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Why do you think that? Genuinely interested...

Defeats the mirage of Red Army military superiority. Gives confidence to the Allies that Ukraine can and will triumph.

10 second clips of infantry doing dumb stuff have no relevance to the fact that Russia is led by a terrorist autocrat that is a belligerent occupying force committing atrocities against a neighboring democracy.
 
Defeats the mirage of Red Army military superiority. Gives confidence to the Allies that Ukraine can and will triumph.

10 second clips of infantry doing dumb stuff have no relevance to the fact that Russia is led by a terrorist autocrat that is a belligerent occupying force committing atrocities against a neighboring democracy.
Fair points...
 
Why do you think that? Genuinely interested...
The two above reasons are solid, I'd also add that it's important for American public opinion to feel like we (and our weapons and tax dollars) are supporting a winner. If it felt like a lost cause - that Russia was a great military power that Ukraine was powerless to resist - I think public opinion would shift and there'd be less support for helping Ukraine militarily. So exposing the Russian army's weaknesses and poor quality helps continue support for supplying weapons, ammo and aid to Ukraine.
 
Been thinking about this in regards to the war.

Is portraying the Russians as a clown show military helping Ukraine or hindering it?

By this I mean....obviously Ukraine is facing stiff resistance with their offensive. They have been asking for aircraft, longer range missiles ect....

Maybe portraying Russia as a tough adversary would provide more impetus for the support they need....
I think there is a gauntlet to shoot. Make it look too hard and hopeless, and people don't want to throw good money after bad. Make it look too easy, then people don't think you need much help. It needs to look daunting, but achievable with western backing.
 
The two above reasons are solid, I'd also add that it's important for American public opinion to feel like we (and our weapons and tax dollars) are supporting a winner. If it felt like a lost cause - that Russia was a great military power that Ukraine was powerless to resist - I think public opinion would shift and there'd be less support for helping Ukraine militarily. So exposing the Russian army's weaknesses and poor quality helps continue support for supplying weapons, ammo and aid to Ukraine.
But here's the counter point.....we're painting them as incompetent (basically agree).....yet the lines have been basically stagnant since November. I just think there's a happy medium here because just the fact that Ukraine has stymied the Russians has popped the Russian "great military power" balloon.

If the press/social media keep pressing the Russians are idiots and are on the verge of collapse yet the war goes into next year.....I'm thinking some folks are going to start thinking they're being duped by the coverage of the war.

You guys make solid points though...
 
I think there is a gauntlet to shoot. Make it look too hard and hopeless, and people don't want to throw good money after bad. Make it look too easy, then people don't think you need much help. It needs to look daunting, but achievable with western backing.
This...I think you stated it better than me.
 
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But here's the counter point.....we're painting them as incompetent (basically agree).....yet the lines have been basically stagnant since November. I just think there's a happy medium here because just the fact that Ukraine has stymied the Russians has popped the Russian "great military power" balloon.

If the press/social media keep pressing the Russians are idiots and are on the verge of collapse yet the war goes into next year.....I'm thinking some folks are going to start thinking they're being duped by the coverage of the war.

You guys make solid points though...
I don't think the average person paying attention is that tuned in. Remember, before the invasion, we were told Ukraine was doomed and would be overrun in a matter of days. Simply lasting this long has been a huge deal, so I don't think that many people are concerned with the pace of the counteroffensive - the fact the Ukrainians have the initiative at all and are making even incremental progress in liberating occupied territories is seen as a major, major accomplishment, IMO.
 
I don't think the average person paying attention is that tuned in. Remember, before the invasion, we were told Ukraine was doomed and would be overrun in a matter of days. Simply lasting this long has been a huge deal, so I don't think that many people are concerned with the pace of the counteroffensive - the fact the Ukrainians have the initiative at all and are making even incremental progress in liberating occupied territories is seen as a major, major accomplishment, IMO.
Agree...especially with the bolded.
 
But here's the counter point.....we're painting them as incompetent (basically agree).....yet the lines have been basically stagnant since November. I just think there's a happy medium here because just the fact that Ukraine has stymied the Russians has popped the Russian "great military power" balloon.

If the press/social media keep pressing the Russians are idiots and are on the verge of collapse yet the war goes into next year.....I'm thinking some folks are going to start thinking they're being duped by the coverage of the war.

You guys make solid points though...
What you see on twitter does not match what you see on the nightly news. On the nightly news, they do not make the Russian military look like bumbling idiots. I think we here in this thread are quite a fringe group of americans, in terms of consumption of Ukraine news and yes, propaganda.
 
What you see on twitter does not match what you see on the nightly news. On the nightly news, they do not make the Russian military look like bumbling idiots. I think we here in this thread are quite a fringe group of americans, in terms of consumption of Ukraine news and yes, propaganda.
Good points...I might be letting this thread taint my opinion a bit..
 
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Operationally, This is the death of the Russian military as a significant joint force threat. How could you trust them with anything real?

They’ve failed with personnel, equipment, and planning.
I think it's mostly tactics, training, planning and logistics.

Some of their weapons systems are very good but they are incapable of utilizing them to the maximum. Especially their Air Force....

We've seen what the Ukrainians are capable of doing with older Russian weapons systems...
 
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Operationally, This is the death of the Russian military as a significant joint force threat. How could you trust them with anything real?

They’ve failed with personnel, equipment, and planning.
Several months ago I expressed surprise to my brother in law, a former Army bird colonel, that the Russians were having such a difficult time, given the perception that they had a strong military.

He said it's one thing to have modern weapons.....but you also have to have the parts to repair/maintain them....AND proper training and support personnel, which the Russians do not have.
 
Several months ago I expressed surprise to my brother in law, a former Army bird colonel, that the Russians were having such a difficult time, given the perception that they had a strong military.

He said it's one thing to have modern weapons.....but you also have to have the parts to repair/maintain them....AND proper training and support personnel, which the Russians do not have.
They spent the money on the toys but not on the training and logistics to actually use them effectively.

Posted an article a while back about how short of trained pilots they are.....like they have more aircraft than compitant combat pilots.

Crazy town....
 
I think it's mostly tactic, training, planning and logistics.

Some of their weapons systems are very good but they are incapable of utilizing them to the maximum. Especially their Air Force....

We've seen what the Ukrainians are capable of doing with older Russian weapons systems...
Russia is operating at like 1/4th of their stated capacity. They have some cutting edge stuff, but no real inventory.

Russia’s motorized cavalry was once so feared that we designed a new type of nuclear weapon to prevent them from overrunning Europe. We’re 500 days into this and they’re using 60 year-old equipment.
 
They spent the money on the toys but not on the training and logistics to actually use them effectively.

Posted an article a while back about how short of trained pilots they are.....like they have more aircraft than compitant combat pilots.

Crazy town....
So true....

My fear is.....unless someone takes Putin out, he is going to use at least one nuke. There is no way Putin admits defeat (in my opinion....hope I'm wrong).
 
So true....

My fear is.....unless someone takes Putin out, he is going to use at least one nuke. There is no way Putin admits defeat (in my opinion....hope I'm wrong).
That's always been my concern...shit really starts going south for them (especially the prospect of losing Crimea) I could see him putting that shot across the bow to make the bad man stop.
 
Why do I feel like this weekend and in to early next week is going to include a lot of news out of the counteroffensive? Seems like there are true efforts to break through by AFU with what sounds like is heavier combat power …. Based on the anecdotal reports.
Agree. Low morale too. Rumors of civil war still.

69th time I will say it but I still say it ends with mass surrender.
 
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