Time, talent, and coaching

[perryhawk]

well...FB a little different than BB...just by the nature of the sport. Although I wouldn't mind having leaders like Dez King on the BB team. But I get your point...and yes I read the post after the PennSt game...wow brutal.

..my view is simple> we did not get beat by the 4 teams because of attitude or temperament...we got beat because they played better (which makes them better than us) and way too many possessions we helped them...both ends (turnovers, rebounding & getting totally out of whack (position) on defense. Until the team limits that we are NOT talented enough to overcome...not in the B1G especially.

I also believe it takes even an experienced coach to come around...I understand MichSt has played a really brutal schedule..but I've also seen some of there other games...they damn near got beat at home by a lower level..it takes even the great Tom Izzo time to come around to his new group.

I do feel better after the ND game. First the 6 TO's were terrific. Fran didn't hesitate to change the lineup...Moss got 24 min instead of 2 the previous game...a sign that coach is coming around.

My expectations are starting 4 freshman (assuming Cook starts when he gets back)...is going to be great for the future but frustrating in the meantime.

hawk-i-bob.....I don't know if attitude and temprement are the best description, but it has to do with buy in at the level that the coaches are pushing for, effort at a level that the players maybe don't yet understand, in essence an emotional and mental intensity that allows them to execute at a higher level. That is the parallel that I am looking for. Experience......to me has to do not just with the Xs & Os, but with the mental toughness and discipline that it takes to execute what the coaches want on a regular basis. That is a learned behavior...but as much mental and emotional as it is physical and attitude and temprement I think are a part of that. Maybe that explains what I was trying to say more clearly.

 

[perryhawk]

I don't think the hat suits me better in a conversation where you avoid mentioning that Iowa Defensive Efficiency rankings were:

2013/14, 77
2014/15, 30
2015/16, 33

Those aren't terrible numbers at all! And in fact we were in the low 30's in 2013/14 before the collapse. But let's ONLY point out the worst of Iowa's results and call that the norm. Fools, fools ignore facts! You do belong in a hat like mine.

Well said Dan.... "But let's ONLY point out the worst of Iowa's results and call that the norm." Scout, you seem like an intelligent and capable poster...some good takes/opinions BUT it seems like you are stuck in trying to make the argument based on the first 6/7 games of this year and applying only supporting information to it....not looking objectively.

To me, we are at the turning point in Fran's tenure where he has started to recruit a different level of athlete that will take us to better results.....it's just that the change has to start with youth that will cause us some initial issues until we get where we are going.

 

[Vbeachawk]

One example was the 3 that Beachem hit...wide open...Ellingson got lost in the zone (LaPhonso Ellis even mentioned it)...there was indeed a miss communication...Baer looked at BE like man ..what are you doing standing in the paint?

There was/is no excuse for Ellingson not knowing who he was covering and where he was supposed to be.....he has been in the program for 2+ years. There were and have been other times where Ellingson was chasing his man around the court like a dog chasing a rabbit....and of course they scored on him.

 

[hawk-i bob]

hawk-i-bob.....I don't know if attitude and temprement are the best description, but it has to do with buy in at the level that the coaches are pushing for, effort at a level that the players maybe don't yet understand, in essence an emotional and mental intensity that allows them to execute at a higher level. That is the parallel that I am looking for. Experience......to me has to do not just with the Xs & Os, but with the mental toughness and discipline that it takes to execute what the coaches want on a regular basis. That is a learned behavior...but as much mental and emotional as it is physical and attitude and temprement I think are a part of that. Maybe that explains what I was trying to say more clearly.

OH I agree...I actually get a kick out of watching incoming freshman ... But its also fair to say the DNA of some student-athletes
is different. It still boils down to performance & competing against an opponent. I do believe there is this notion that if you are a screamer..its makes you mentally tough.

You are correct...there are some athletes who struggle understanding the execution part...but they also seem to be lacking in confidence... play not to make mistakes instead of playing with that mental toughness & discipline that you mention... we have a case on the team of that right now.

I feel for them...and hope somehow the light comes on & they say to themselves...F it and just use your abilities to the best you can.

 

[hawk-i bob]

One example was the 3 that Beachem hit...wide open...Ellingson got lost in the zone (LaPhonso Ellis even mentioned it)...there was indeed a miss communication...Baer looked at BE like man ..what are you doing standing in the paint?

There was/is no excuse for Ellingson not knowing who he was covering and where he was supposed to be.....he has been in the program for 2+ years. There were and have been other times where Ellingson was chasing his man around the court like a dog chasing a rabbit....and of course they scored on him.

and I thought only Jok has mental breakdowns on defense...

 

[K OKeefe]

Well, it's early, but I am going to make a couple predictions. #1, the defensive effort we will see going forward will be much more similar to the Notre Dame game than prior games. #2, if that happens, when Cook comes back, if he isn't playing defense, his ass will be on the bench. He had best be paying attention the next few weeks because if these guys hustle like they did against ND, he is going to need to step it up if he wants to be a leader on this team. I sure hope it happens.

So giving up 92 points equals a decent defensive effort to you?

 

[ScoutRefugee]

Scout....I'm assuming you don't think that MSU will continue to perform at their same level that they are currently....for the entire year do you?

Although Izzo has shown that his teams typically change over the course of a year....Fran has consistently improved this program over his time here. I certainly don't like that we have temporarily taken a step back, but just because things are going bad does not mean it's time to abandon ship. A couple of years ago our football team looked like the program was headed in the tank, then the next year they go 12-0 regular season. This year at the Penn St. game it looked like we might not win another game this year.....and you know the rest.

The point being, looking at the stats for an admittedly bad stretch (Fran said the defense was atrocious) does not mean that we are doomed. Is there room for concern, of course. I haven't talked to any of them (would never have the opportunity) but I am willing to bet that they are all very much bothered by the record and their performance on the court. That is why I go back to looking at it from a bigger picture...time, talent, coaching. It's all there.

I'm not saying that things can't get better. They can. I expect several players to improve over the course of this season. And I only brought Izzo into the discussion because I consider him a defensive minded coach and he has a young team that has several losses. I thought it was worth noting that even when an Izzo team struggles, they don't tank defensively like our team has.
I'm not sure "it's all there". And I don't mind sharing my misgivings. It gets under some people's skin, I guess but that's not really my problem. I didn't consider Gesell a top 10 BIG PG. He was serviceable. That's the most I will say for him. He played hard. It's disheartening to me that we don't have a replacement for him that's a step up.

 

[Bulldogs1974]

Do me a favor, because I'm really slow on the draw on this one. Show me how Fran doesn't emphasize defense. How about some stats to back that up? Thanks.

Well I'm not going to say he doesn't but how many charges were taken against seton hall? I've never seen that many dribble drives and not have a charge taken. We've always overplayed the passing lanes rather than taking away drives (aaron white).
I have also felt as though we struggle to prevent offensive rebounds.

 

[hawksense]

No doubt that most incoming FR have an adjustment to the intensity needed to play defense at the college level. Thats when a good defensive coach will simplify things to help a young team. This team would play much better defense if Fran played straight man and switched on every screen. Or played straight zone. The last thing I would want to do with a young team is put too many variations on them defensively. The last thing you want to do is take the aggressiveness out of them by forcing them to think too much.

Baptism by fire, my friend. I agree with some of the stuff you're saying, but maybe coach is taking his lumps now in hopes that things become more familiar for the team.

The strides we supposedly made against ND (i thought we did) are baby steps. We need to build on it. The B1G won't be any easier, so learn it on the fly now. Dumbing it down, IMO, isn't the answer.

We play at 100 miles an hour. We need to learn the complexities of the game at that same speed. It's frustrating, but i think it's how we need to learn going forward.

I hope I'm right. We all want to be right.

 

[ScoutRefugee]

Baptism by fire, my friend. I agree with some of the stuff you're saying, but maybe coach is taking his lumps now in hopes that things become more familiar for the team.

The strides we supposedly made against ND (i thought we did) are baby steps. We need to build on it. The B1G won't be any easier, so learn it on the fly now. Dumbing it down, IMO, isn't the answer.

We play at 100 miles an hour. We need to learn the complexities of the game at that same speed. It's frustrating, but i think it's how we need to learn going forward.

I hope I'm right. We all want to be right.

We all want you to be right.

 

[HawkLogic]

We have talent but it's talent at 3 positions. Unfortunately, one of the.positions we are lacking talent is the most important position in College Basketball.
On the heels of what I posted already, Fran doesn't emphasize defense and when you have a bunch of guys that aren't interested in playing defense, it becomes much more of a glaring problem.
The roots of the problem lay in Fran's lack of being able to sign any of the PGs he recruited. He thought that some of the wings we had could fill the void at the position. Now we are here.
I believe that Fran had planned on Connor being his PG from the minute he steps foot on campus. Which is fine. My only concern with Connor is that he's a defensive liability against high major D-1 PGs and I'm not sure he's quick enough to beat high major defenders off the dribble.
It's very possible that we might be in worse shape next season because Jok will be gone. It's going to be interesting, that's for sure.

Yeah, I think Connor is already penciled in at PG, but unfortunately he is in the mold of bigger/less athletic/not great creator type PG/combo guard. He really needs to be paired with a 2G that is super athletic and we don't have that guy on campus or coming in next year. I see more of he same...our perimeter defense getting lit up and we have no one that can dribble drive to hoop.

 

[24 so far]

I started the year predicting 16-18 wins.....and although I am still hopeful and positive, if things don't change on the defensive side of this we may not get to 16. Right now, and it is only right now, I'm not convinced that we aren't quite a ways down the ladder in the B10. That said, this team is capable of finishing in the top half of the B10. Those that argue that we don't have the talent......I disagree completely.

Which brings me to the time topic. We appear to have made some progress through the first seven games. ND was the best team we have played and we played the best we have against them. That said, the defense still needs to make significant progress. So, if we can get our defense to an average B10 level by the start of the B10 then I think we have the ability to finish in the middle of the B10.

That defensive imporvement is the job of these coaches. I have no doubt that this team can and will play better defense.....I just don't know when. I hope soon, but worst case scenario it might not be until way late in the year.

Talent...we have talent. We lack experience. I remember when our football team got beat badly by Penn State and the Debbie Downers were harping on how bad our talent was and we can't win shiznit. Baloney. The talent was there, the attitude and the temprerment wasn't. When they were challenged and finally came to the realization that they had to play like they were in a dog fight, they beat the highly talented Michigan team and a pretty talented Nebraska.

This Iowa bball team doesn't lack talent...they just need to be coached up to play better defense (plus a few other things) and they need to do it pretty quickly.

Your 1st paragraph, I mostly agree with. Seems like you had a somewhat realistic approach to what this season would look like (shaky unless some miracle occurred). Watching this team play Defense against a team with a pulse, as it currently stands, is going to be painful.

Outside of the rare real lousy team in the Big Ten (Rutgers comes to mind), I'm not sure who we're going to beat in-Conference, and it sure doesn't appear like it will be consistently, Home court or not. If you can't play Defense, you're going to get your butt handed to you on a fairly regular basis. T.R.O.U.B.L.E.

Will the Defense improve? Probably, you really can't go anywhere but up at this point. I wouldn't make any plans to set the DVR for post season viewing, but we can hope.

They are entertaining, I'll give them that.

 

[HawkRugged17]

Love the comments by Pemsl here (45 second mark) ... need to learn to love to play defense. Sounds like they are hearing about defense in practice.