TN now introducing a bill to stop teaching Muslim Doctrine in Schools.

[MichiganManLifer]

Surely two state governments are paranoid, chicken littles like I was called in another thread? I know some liberals here are content to offer our culture up as a gift while also giving away our history, but this can at least show most of you don't know what you're talking about.

NASHVILLE, Tenn. – Parental outrage over lessons on Islam in public schools convinced state Rep. Sheila Butt to do something about it.

Butt introduced legislation to ban schools from teaching “religious doctrine” until students reach high school, and to focus equally on all world religions when the time comes, the Chattanooga Times Free Press reports.

The legislation is designed to address a flood of complaints from parents in numerous school districts in Tennessee and other states centered on lessons about Islam taught to students in sixth and seventh grades.

The lessons typically require students to write or recite the Islamic call to prayer – “Allah is the only God, Mohammad is his prophet” – and to understand the Five Pillars of Islam. Many parents have voiced concerns to school board members in several Tennessee counties about how the teachings conflict with their personal beliefs, and claim students spend much more time learning about Islam than other religions.

“I think Islam was taught really in depth a little more than all the others,” Cheatham County parent Lisa Binkley told school board members recently, according to ABC 6. “To me, it’s almost like an indoctrination, not an introduction to a religion.”

 

[naturalmwa]

Your first sentence is right.

 

[THE_DEVIL]

 

[THE_DEVIL]

The debate regarding the measure is Butt’s latest brush with criticism; earlier this year black colleagues scolded her for saying she wanted a group like the NAACP but for “Western people.” She also tried to table an exemption on new rape legislation for rape and incest victims, arguing that they were “not verifiable.”

 

[MichiganManLifer]

The debate regarding the measure is Butt’s latest brush with criticism; earlier this year black colleagues scolded her for saying she wanted a group like the NAACP but for “Western people.” She also tried to table an exemption on new rape legislation for rape and incest victims, arguing that they were “not verifiable.”

Did you see the first line? Parental outrage lead her to this. That type of stuff is happening on the ground. You guys are just like what you blame as global warming deniers.

 

[22*43*51]

What other religious doctrines do they also teach?

 

[moral_victory]

chicken littles like I was called in another thread

That still applies here.

 

[22*43*51]

That still applies here.

It's cool if they are teaching the Ten Commandments, John 3:16, the Torah etc.

Wouldn't you agree?

 

[moral_victory]

It's cool if they are teaching the Ten Commandments, John 3:16, the Torah etc.

Wouldn't you agree?

If it is a class that covers a vast variety of world religion I feel that is okay.

 

[fredjr82]

Is MichiganManLifer the old Tennessee Waltz? Tennessee wasn't as "right leanging" as MML it didn't seem. He did go off the deep end in the thread about his coaching career. Maybe something snapped.

 

[cigaretteman]

Your first sentence is right.

This. It was all downhill after that. Sadly, a lot of conservatives can't help their paranoid delusions. It's partially genetic:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/201104/conservatives-big-fear-brain-study-finds

 

[millhawk]

This. It was all downhill after that. Sadly, a lot of conservatives can't help their paranoid delusions. It's partially genetic:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/201104/conservatives-big-fear-brain-study-finds

Are other religions given equal time?

 

[Huey Grey]

Interesting that the party of freedom isn't so free when it comes to being Muslim.

 

[naturalmwa]

Interesting that the party of freedom isn't so free when it comes to being Muslim.

More than just that. The party of "religious freedom" wants to restrict a slightly different way of praying to the same god they like.

 

[Huey Grey]

More than just that. The party of "religious freedom" wants to restrict a slightly different way of praying to the same god they like.

Apparently praying 5 times a day is a bridge too far.

 

[HawkAttackDial911]

What's wrong with the proposal? They are still allowed to teach Islam. Just have to wait until high school and focus equally on all religions.

 

[22*43*51]

If it is a class that covers a vast variety of world religion I feel that is okay.

Do they?

 

[theIowaHawk]

Ok, so the OP's main failure is a complete lack of information, which isn't surprising for a chain-email.

So, what was happening in the school?

The very first line of the linked article is: Islam is one of many religions required to be taught in Tennessee public schools.

Then the concern is reported as:

“I think that Islam was taught really in depth a little more than all the others,” said Lisa Binkley, a Cheatham County parent with two children in the district.

She spoke before the board.


“To me, it’s almost like an indoctrination, not an introduction to a religion,” said Binkley.


This seems understandable. If one religion is "like indoctrination" and taught much more than the others that seems like a concern. But then again, her next line is:

“We don’t have a problem with the culture. We just want the religion out of the schools,” said Tammy Sharp, a Rutherford County parent who went to the meeting.

Which is a fairly absurd categorization. i.e. "We don't mind Islam, we just want it to stay away from our kids.............unlike Christianity."

The school spokesperson said it is a Statewide standard to teach it, not some Muslim minority who showed up and shoved it down their throats.

He supplied News 2 with a copy of those standards. It said students study “the Islamic World” in seventh grade. In sixth grade, they learn about Christianity and Judaism.


He also gave News 2 a fact sheet. It said all major religions including Buddhism and Hinduism are covered.

Unfortunately, "News 2" doesn't appear to have linked those standards nor fact sheet, which is surprisingly idiotic.

So, again, what is the concern here? That Islam/Sharia law is taking over, one school at a time?

 

[theIowaHawk]

What's wrong with the proposal? They are still allowed to teach Islam. Just have to wait until high school and focus equally on all religions.

Well, for one, I'm not sure what qualifies as "religious doctrine", and in a social studies/world history class ignoring all aspects of religion is ridiculous. Islam and Christianity (and others, obviously) are incredibly important to geography, governance, and history.

But, in general, leaving "religious doctrine" ALTOGETHER to high school seems like a good idea....depending on how that is defined.

 

[theIowaHawk]

Did you see the first line? Parental outrage lead her to this. That type of stuff is happening on the ground. You guys are just like what you blame as global warming deniers.

What, specifically is being denied? In climate change, the "Deniers" deny that climate is changing, or that it is man made.

Am I to presume that the denial here is that Islam/Sharia is taking over the US?

 

[naturalmwa]

Ok, so the OP's main failure is a complete lack of information, which isn't surprising for a chain-email.

So, what was happening in the school?

The very first line of the linked article is: Islam is one of many religions required to be taught in Tennessee public schools.

Then the concern is reported as:

“I think that Islam was taught really in depth a little more than all the others,” said Lisa Binkley, a Cheatham County parent with two children in the district.

She spoke before the board.


“To me, it’s almost like an indoctrination, not an introduction to a religion,” said Binkley.


This seems understandable. If one religion is "like indoctrination" and taught much more than the others that seems like a concern. But then again, her next line is:

“We don’t have a problem with the culture. We just want the religion out of the schools,” said Tammy Sharp, a Rutherford County parent who went to the meeting.

Which is a fairly absurd categorization. i.e. "We don't mind Islam, we just want it to stay away from our kids.............unlike Christianity."

The school spokesperson said it is a Statewide standard to teach it, not some Muslim minority who showed up and shoved it down their throats.

He supplied News 2 with a copy of those standards. It said students study “the Islamic World” in seventh grade. In sixth grade, they learn about Christianity and Judaism.


He also gave News 2 a fact sheet. It said all major religions including Buddhism and Hinduism are covered.

Unfortunately, "News 2" doesn't appear to have linked those standards nor fact sheet, which is surprisingly idiotic.

So, again, what is the concern here? That Islam/Sharia law is taking over, one school at a time?

From that little bit of info, my biggest concern is that Islam isn't taught alongside Christianity and Judaism as just another variation of the same Abrahamic faith tradition. I'd vote to see that change made.

 

[theIowaHawk]

From that little bit of info, my biggest concern is that Islam isn't taught alongside Christianity and Judaism as just another variation of the same Abrahamic faith tradition. I'd vote to see that change made.

This, educationally, seems reasonable to me:

Tennessee education officials and teachers recently argued courses were appropriate and based on secular fact during a discussion of the curriculum with The Tennessean. They acknowledged students might learn the Five Pillars of Islam or read from religious texts, but that information is used to provide historical context about the influence the religion had on regions of the world.


"The reality is the Muslim world brought us algebra, 'One Thousand and One Nights,' and some can argue it helped bring about the Renaissance," Metro Nashville Public Schools social studies teacher Kyle Alexander recently told The Tennessean. "There is a lot of influence that that part of the world had on world history."

But if they are simply reiterating and strengthening the current understanding, I'm all for this:

The concept of "religious doctrine" is never defined in Tennessee law. There is a reference to the concept in a portion of the law related to using the Bible in school. The law says the Bible may be used in class, as long as the course doesn't include "teaching of religious doctrine or sectarian interpretation of the Bible or of texts from other religious or cultural traditions."

 

[theIowaHawk]

I actually kind of enjoy this new onslaught against religion.....coming from the more-religious. It is similar, imo, to old hatred of Catholics and catholic schools. They want Christianity in school, at home, at church, at sports, at everything...but they don't want other religions interfering. (similar to KY Kim) BUT, in their ignorant short-sightedness they push back against religion in general, which largely disallows the teaching of religion that they want. See KY Kim as an example, in that she wants to be a good god-fearing Christian woman, but is willing to push for sectarian laws (allowing religious exemption) which will only come back to bite her, hard.

 

[MichiganManLifer]

I actually kind of enjoy this new onslaught against religion.....coming from the more-religious. It is similar, imo, to old hatred of Catholics and catholic schools. They want Christianity in school, at home, at church, at sports, at everything...but they don't want other religions interfering. (similar to KY Kim) BUT, in their ignorant short-sightedness they push back against religion in general, which largely disallows the teaching of religion that they want. See KY Kim as an example, in that she wants to be a good god-fearing Christian woman, but is willing to push for sectarian laws (allowing religious exemption) which will only come back to bite her, hard.

The difference is that I prefer to see this not taught publicly or at least be even about it. Heck, any Christian has been mocked or ridiculed for traditions we grew up in, why would they EVER teach the 5 tenets of Islam? How much do they allow Christianity to be taught if you move to Iraq? Or Iran? Or Saudi Arabia? It's easy to rip good church going people, but not if they are middle eastern and belong to a religion that condones violence. There is no place for that in schools.

 

[theIowaHawk]

The difference is that I prefer to see this not taught publicly or at least be even about it. Heck, any Christian has been mocked or ridiculed for traditions we grew up in, why would they EVER teach the 5 tenets of Islam? How much do they allow Christianity to be taught if you move to Iraq? Or Iran? Or Saudi Arabia? It's easy to rip good church going people, but not if they are middle eastern and belong to a religion that condones violence. There is no place for that in schools.

Heck, any Christian has been mocked or ridiculed for traditions we grew up in

WHAT? This is what you believe? That you have been MOCKED? So when you enter, basically, ANY store and are able to find Christian-related "products" (see Easter, Christmas, God, Jesus, Tebow, whatever), because some comedian made fun of Lent, you believe you are mocked and ridiculed? Oh you persecuted man!

Why on any planet, including Earth, are we discussing what other countries are doing regarding teaching of religion? Is the new US standard one of "But he did it first!"?

But, I'll stop "mocking and ridiculing" you, and just ask you to clarify:

You don't want Islam taught publicly nor even discussed in school. So, IF schools teach the middle east (maybe you want that stopped too?) you want it to completely ignore the subject of Islam?

 

[moral_victory]

Do they?

Not sure. I haven't seen the curriculum for Muslim Jihadist indoctrination class recently.

 

[gusto79]

The difference is that I prefer to see this not taught publicly or at least be even about it. Heck, any Christian has been mocked or ridiculed for traditions we grew up in, why would they EVER teach the 5 tenets of Islam? How much do they allow Christianity to be taught if you move to Iraq? Or Iran? Or Saudi Arabia? It's easy to rip good church going people, but not if they are middle eastern and belong to a religion that condones violence. There is no place for that in schools.

I have no doubt you are mocked and ridiculed all the time.

 

[moral_victory]

How much do they allow Christianity to be taught if you move to Iraq? Or Iran? Or Saudi Arabia?

Are you saying we should be more like middle eastern countries?

 

[cigaretteman]

Are you saying we should be more like middle eastern countries?

Yeah, this confused me as well. I always thought wingers believed in American Exceptionalism. Why in the world would we stoop to the level of bigotry expressed by other countries that don't practice freedom of religion?

 

[moral_victory]

Yeah, this confused me as well. I always thought wingers believed in American Exceptionalism. Why in the world would we stoop to the level of bigotry expressed by other countries that don't practice freedom of religion?

I have meant to point out a few times now but it seems they are really starting to use American Unexceptionalism in many arguments.

 

[MichiganManLifer]

Heck, any Christian has been mocked or ridiculed for traditions we grew up in

WHAT? This is what you believe? That you have been MOCKED? So when you enter, basically, ANY store and are able to find Christian-related "products" (see Easter, Christmas, God, Jesus, Tebow, whatever), because some comedian made fun of Lent, you believe you are mocked and ridiculed? Oh you persecuted man!

Why on any planet, including Earth, are we discussing what other countries are doing regarding teaching of religion? Is the new US standard one of "But he did it first!"?

But, I'll stop "mocking and ridiculing" you, and just ask you to clarify:

You don't want Islam taught publicly nor even discussed in school. So, IF schools teach the middle east (maybe you want that stopped too?) you want it to completely ignore the subject of Islam?

Middle East history? What's the point? It's kill rivals and infidels, rinse and repeat for oh, about 1200 years? I say that, because it doesn't matter what we start teaching, they will want more. Look at New Jersey... If we can't teach religion, fine. Keep it that way across the board.

To answer your other question, have you tried wishing people Merry Christmas lately? People are offended about everything religious, so you get labeled as intolerant or whatever for simply by following basic Christian beliefs.

 

[joelbc1]

Surely two state governments are paranoid, chicken littles like I was called in another thread? I know some liberals here are content to offer our culture up as a gift while also giving away our history, but this can at least show most of you don't know what you're talking about.

NASHVILLE, Tenn. – Parental outrage over lessons on Islam in public schools convinced state Rep. Sheila Butt to do something about it.

Butt introduced legislation to ban schools from teaching “religious doctrine” until students reach high school, and to focus equally on all world religions when the time comes, the Chattanooga Times Free Press reports.

The legislation is designed to address a flood of complaints from parents in numerous school districts in Tennessee and other states centered on lessons about Islam taught to students in sixth and seventh grades.

The lessons typically require students to write or recite the Islamic call to prayer – “Allah is the only God, Mohammad is his prophet” – and to understand the Five Pillars of Islam. Many parents have voiced concerns to school board members in several Tennessee counties about how the teachings conflict with their personal beliefs, and claim students spend much more time learning about Islam than other religions.

“I think Islam was taught really in depth a little more than all the others,” Cheatham County parent Lisa Binkley told school board members recently, according to ABC 6. “To me, it’s almost like an indoctrination, not an introduction to a religion.”

The masses are asses.

 

[Jan Itor]

Your first sentence is right.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but aren't you against teaching of religion in any public schools? At least Christianity?

 

[joelbc1]

Maybe I'm mistaken, but aren't you against teaching of religion in any public schools? At least Christianity?

Would these same folks be upset if the school was teaching The 10 Commandments? It'
s a matter of degrees here where BOTH sides need to be careful. Teaching the tenants of a major religion would certainly be acceptable in a public school setting.....Teaching the major ideas of "taoism", teaching Buddhism, teaching Islam, Judaism and Christianity were certainly part of my freshman and sophomore high school World History curriculums. It's all an integral part of UNDERSTANDING the cultures of the world.

 

[joelbc1]

Would these same folks be upset if the school was teaching The 10 Commandments? It'
s a matter of degrees here where BOTH sides need to be careful. Teaching the tenants of a major religion would certainly be acceptable in a public school setting.....Teaching the major ideas of "taoism", teaching Buddhism, teaching Islam, Judaism and Christianity were certainly part of my freshman and sophomore high school World History curriculums. It's all an integral part of UNDERSTANDING the cultures of the world.

WE also talked about theocracy, monarchy,democracy, socialism, communism, fascism, Nazism and the roles they play(ed) in the development of man and culture.

 

[naturalmwa]

Maybe I'm mistaken, but aren't you against teaching of religion in any public schools? At least Christianity?

Oh no, I love teaching people about religion. It's one of my favorite topics. I find most religious people have no clue what their faith teaches. And once they find out it's easier to make them see reason. Please teach all forms of magic in schools. Comparing them makes the sham even more clear. I'd love every school in the nation to teach comparative religion and philosophy.

Now I'm against proselytizing. The bible and Christianity and every other religion and holy book should be taught like any other subject focusing on the facts and evidence and verifiable stories and relevance. How do you think the faiths would hold up?

 

[Wahawk56]

Is MichiganManLifer the old Tennessee Waltz? Tennessee wasn't as "right leanging" as MML it didn't seem. He did go off the deep end in the thread about his coaching career. Maybe something snapped.

He did want to turn me into Mason Vergure

 

[HotelAlphaWilcoKilo]

have you tried wishing people Merry Christmas lately?

Boy have I. All I seem to get in response is, "It's not even ****ing Halloween yet, you dolt!"

 

[theIowaHawk]

Middle East history? What's the point? It's kill rivals and infidels, rinse and repeat for oh, about 1200 years? I say that, because it doesn't matter what we start teaching, they will want more. Look at New Jersey... If we can't teach religion, fine. Keep it that way across the board.

To answer your other question, have you tried wishing people Merry Christmas lately? People are offended about everything religious, so you get labeled as intolerant or whatever for simply by following basic Christian beliefs.

This is a joke, right? Ignoring your entirely ignorant world history comments, the bolded is a joke, right?

You live in a made up, delusional world if you think that "merry christmas" is somehow treated with disdain. 70% of the US identifies as Christian, 70 f****** percent. You keep on pretending you are persecuted.

 

[Jan Itor]

The masses are asses.

Same old schtick.

Would these same folks be upset if the school was teaching The 10 Commandments? It'
s a matter of degrees here where BOTH sides need to be careful. Teaching the tenants of a major religion would certainly be acceptable in a public school setting.....Teaching the major ideas of "taoism", teaching Buddhism, teaching Islam, Judaism and Christianity were certainly part of my freshman and sophomore high school World History curriculums. It's all an integral part of UNDERSTANDING the cultures of the world.

Agreed. But I also agree that holding off until the high school years isn't such a bad idea.

 

[jscott78]

I am just relieved her name isn't Bertha Butt, one of the Butt sisters.