Top French Weatherman FIRED for Writing a Book Critical of Climate Change Dogma

[mstp1992]

The principle of "at will' is not known in France.

French Employment Law: Dismissing Employees in France

Whilst this list should not be held to be exhaustive, the following points might be of particular comparative interest to practitioners used to the quite different provisions of many Common Law systems.

Employment in France is not 'at will' and thus dismissals may only come about on demonstrably and limited objective grounds, which must be brought to the attention of the employee in writing.

Dismissals are subject to stringent, and often bureaucratic, procedural statutory constraints.

Redundancies, or lay-offs on economic grounds, are subject to separate and complex procedural and substantive constraints particularly in the case of multiple dismissals.

There are a number of French State Agencies which have a statutory right to be advised of, and in some cases to authorise, proposed dismissals by private sector employers.

It is extremely easy and at virtually no cost for an employee to start litigation against his (ex) employer before separate Labour Courts.

Labour Relations Courts (Conseils de Prud'hommes) are generally made up of lay judges who are elected from the ranks of employer/employee organisations.

It is rare that the plaintiff be other than an employee and just as rare that claims be dismissed with no award whatsoever being made against the employer. The foregoing is not intended to be exhaustive and for specific information relating to dismissing employees in France, please click here .

That's why it kind of seems pointless to argue the merits of this guy's firing without a working knowledge of French employment law. We cannot extrapolate American law to a country that has a much different structure.

 

[naturalmwa]

The principle of "at will' is not known in France.

French Employment Law: Dismissing Employees in France

Whilst this list should not be held to be exhaustive, the following points might be of particular comparative interest to practitioners used to the quite different provisions of many Common Law systems.

Employment in France is not 'at will' and thus dismissals may only come about on demonstrably and limited objective grounds, which must be brought to the attention of the employee in writing.

Dismissals are subject to stringent, and often bureaucratic, procedural statutory constraints.

Redundancies, or lay-offs on economic grounds, are subject to separate and complex procedural and substantive constraints particularly in the case of multiple dismissals.

There are a number of French State Agencies which have a statutory right to be advised of, and in some cases to authorise, proposed dismissals by private sector employers.

It is extremely easy and at virtually no cost for an employee to start litigation against his (ex) employer before separate Labour Courts.

Labour Relations Courts (Conseils de Prud'hommes) are generally made up of lay judges who are elected from the ranks of employer/employee organisations.

It is rare that the plaintiff be other than an employee and just as rare that claims be dismissed with no award whatsoever being made against the employer. The foregoing is not intended to be exhaustive and for specific information relating to dismissing employees in France, please click here .

Forgive me, I thought we were having a broad discussion about principles and values using this case as an example to frame the discussion. Not specific French legal positions. But if you are seeking to retreat, that might be appropriate ground.

 

[naturalmwa]

I don't know the specifics of employment law in France.

However, in this country, you're right, there's no specific law that could be invoked to prevent the termination in this circumstance. And certainly employers can terminate for off-duty conduct (think drug testing or criminal conviction). But I also feel that this is widely abused, and believe that employees should be protected from being fired for exercising their freedom speech, or holding political views, or participating in all the other individual rights granted us by the constitution.

For a guy that doesn't like unions, you would make a good rep.

 

[mstp1992]

I don't know the specifics of employment law in France.

However, in this country, you're right, there's no specific law that could be invoked to prevent the termination in this circumstance. And certainly employers can terminate for off-duty conduct (think drug testing or criminal conviction). But I also feel that this is widely abused, and believe that employees should be protected from being fired for exercising their freedom speech, or holding political views, or participating in all the other individual rights granted us by the constitution.

But, what if restricting those rights (I know, that's bad terminology) is already written into the contract signed by said employee? What if the employee signs a contract expressly prohibiting him/her from publicly exercising their freedom of speech (e.g., writing a book that may spur some controversy) without obtaining prior approval from company brass? Wouldn't the company then be able to say "you violated the terms of your contract, you're fired."?

I don't know the employment laws as well as you and others, but that seems like it could be a valid reason for firing someone. Not because of their specific beliefs, but as a specific violation of the terms of their contract.

 

[TexMichFan]

Forgive me, I thought we were having a broad discussion about principles and values using this case as an example to frame the discussion. Not specific French legal positions. But if you are seeking to retreat, that might be appropriate ground.

You are forgiven.

It was fun getting from a French weatherman to American at will employment. Do you think we can work abortions into this somehow?

Case by case but I would give a person the right to express an opinion without worrying about being fired for having a view counter to company/state view. In France and the United States.

 

[naturalmwa]

You are forgiven.

It was fun getting from a French weatherman to American at will employment. Do you think we can work abortions into this somehow?

Case by case but I would give a person the right to express an opinion without worrying about being fired for having a view counter to company/state view. In France and the United States.

You'll have to forgive me again, but I don't believe you. I don't think you actually see anything wrong with firing a person who expresses an opinion for profit that runs counter the the opinion you were hired to deliver.

 

[lucas80]

That's why it kind of seems pointless to argue the merits of this guy's firing without a working knowledge of French employment law. We cannot extrapolate American law to a country that has a much different structure.

I don't think you know how the internet works. When you are discussing French employment laws you've gone off the radar.

 

[lucas80]

I'm new to this thread, but, does he have any qualifications to write this book? Just standing in front of a green screen and pointing towards a cloud icon, or saying it's going to rain today doesn't mean you should write this book.
Maybe he just sucked at his job? Maybe that is why he was fired. Maybe he was in a contract negotiation that went bad.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Yes, "shutting people up" is the best way to foster scientific and academic progress.

Can't have any dissenting views while pretending to value intellectual arguments and the free expression of ideas....

How was he "shut up"? His book was published...no? Are you now AGAINST right-to-work laws that allow employees to be fired at will?

 

[The Tradition]

How was he "shut up"? His book was published...no? Are you now AGAINST right-to-work laws that allow employees to be fired at will?

Right to work is a union thing. It means the right to work in a union shop without being required to join the union and pay dues.

It has nothing to do with employment at will.

Class dismissed.

 

[The Tradition]

I'm new to this thread, but, does he have any qualifications to write this book? Just standing in front of a green screen and pointing towards a cloud icon, or saying it's going to rain today doesn't mean you should write this book.
Maybe he just sucked at his job? Maybe that is why he was fired. Maybe he was in a contract negotiation that went bad.

Apparently, he was popular and beloved by French viewers. Kinda like France's version of Willard Scott.

 

[YellowSnow51]

Do you realize you're making shit up or are you obtuse to the details? They were all researchers. This guy is a spokesperson. This guy's job is to deliver the company line. If Galileo was a priest, he should have rightly been fired for not holding the company line too.

You are confused about this guy's job. He is a part of a news team. News that hasn't happened yet...including weather.

The company's line is "report the news and get good ratings". What you want is for peolle to accept that is they say "it's always sunny" and his meteorological skills say it's going to rain, that she should still say that it's sunny or be fired.

The state's company line has nothing to do with whether or not there is corruption in the climatology field...which seems to be what this guy was pointing out with his book.

When it all breaks out, I'll wager that he wins the pending lawsuit. Not them.

And again, you are siding with Chic-Fil-A being able to fire someone for being pro gay marriage. You know...that pesky company line you love so much.

 

[TexMichFan]

You'll have to forgive me again, but I don't believe you. I don't think you actually see anything wrong with firing a person who expresses an opinion for profit that runs counter the the opinion you were hired to deliver.

I can forgive you for disagreeing with me but not for calling me a liar.

In the case of the French weatherman I don't think he was hired to promote or agree with the company/state line on climate change but to deliver the weather forecast. Were his forecasts wrong? Would people not believe him if said that it was going to rain tomorrow because his book? I know you disagree but that is how I actually feel but if you want tell me how I actually feel about it again feel free.

 

[lucas80]

Apparently, he was popular and beloved by French viewers. Kinda like France's version of Willard Scott.

I like Jeff Kennedy, that doesn't mean he's qualified to write a book about anything other than blow drying his hair or doing TV weather.

 

[naturalmwa]

You are confused about this guy's job. He is a part of a news team. News that hasn't happened yet...including weather.

The company's line is "report the news and get good ratings". What you want is for peolle to accept that is they say "it's always sunny" and his meteorological skills say it's going to rain, that she should still say that it's sunny or be fired.

The state's company line has nothing to do with whether or not there is corruption in the climatology field...which seems to be what this guy was pointing out with his book.

When it all breaks out, I'll wager that he wins the pending lawsuit. Not them.

And again, you are siding with Chic-Fil-A being able to fire someone for being pro gay marriage. You know...that pesky company line you love so much.

If I was hired by Chic to represent their marriage views and I wrote a book saying Chic was full of dick, Yes I should risk losing my job. You can try to reach for my nuts all day, but this is a fairly clear and sound principle. The man was working in opposition to his employer's interests. He was not acting as a professional. And he wasn't fired for just expressing a point of view, but for trying to profit from biting the hand that feeds him.

 

[22*43*51]

Why is the employer so Anti-Scientific method?

 

[The Tradition]

I like Jeff Kennedy, that doesn't mean he's qualified to write a book about anything other than blow drying his hair or doing TV weather.

You asked if he sucked at his job. This is apparently not the case.

 

[naturalmwa]

Would people not believe him if said that it was going to rain tomorrow because his book?

Precisely. Now everyone knows he doesn't trust science. So when he says it's going to rain, that might be based on radar and wind patterns or tea leaves and horoscopes. He has made himself less believable and objective.

 

[The Tradition]

If I was hired by Chic to represent their marriage views and I wrote a book saying Chic was full of dick, Yes I should risk losing my job. You can try to reach for my nuts all day, but this is a fairly clear and sound principle. The man was working in opposition to his employer's interests. He was not acting as a professional. And he wasn't fired for just expressing a point of view, but for trying to profit from biting the hand that feeds him.

Did anything in this book directly challenge the state-owned "France 2" channel? Are they participating in the climate change corruption? If so, he's a whistle-blower and should be protected.

 

[22*43*51]

Precisely. Now everyone knows he doesn't trust science. So when he says it's going to rain, that might be based on radar and wind patterns or tea leaves and horoscopes. He has made himself less believable and objective.

Statistically speaking nothing is 100% certain.

So, science doesn't inherently ever trust itself, or advancement wouldn't happen.

 

[The Tradition]

Precisely. Now everyone knows he doesn't trust science. So when he says it's going to rain, that might be based on radar and wind patterns or tea leaves and horoscopes. He has made himself less believable and objective.

I love the irony here....

"IF YOU DON'T TOE THE PARTY LINE YOU'RE NOT OBJECTIVE"

 

[naturalmwa]

I love the irony here....

"IF YOU DON'T TOE THE PARTY LINE YOU'RE NOT OBJECTIVE"

The party line is "report the science". Glad to clear that up.

 

[22*43*51]

The party line is "report the science". Glad to clear that up.

In this case it was "Report the Science we want you to"

 

[86Hawkeye]

50 years ago you might have been fired for things you did "outside the office." You know better than most how these conformist mobs operate and I'm surprised you approve the tactic.

I'm not surprised at all.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Smart. Just like doctors who trumpet aloe vera's cancer curative powers should have their jobs put in jeopardy.

Dude, you sound like the Catholic Church circa 1600.

 

[TexMichFan]

Precisely. Now everyone knows he doesn't trust science. So when he says it's going to rain, that might be based on radar and wind patterns or tea leaves and horoscopes. He has made himself less believable and objective.

No, we know he questions science.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

For the record, this exact story is why some of us have such a hard time with man-made global warming claims. When you use brute force to beat down any semblance of discussion, it makes us feel like you're trying to hide something. The actions of the government against anti-global warming people is extremely similar to the Catholic Church's actions again scientists who threatened their dogma. Now, if that doesn't set off a red flag or two, I guess you're just a died in the wool 'True Believer'.

 

[naturalmwa]

Dude, you sound like the Catholic Church circa 1600.

Did the church enforce medical ethics? Good to know.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Did the church enforce medical ethics? Good to know.

The Church was the source for EVERYTHING.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

I don't care if that's not how this works. You shouldn't be fired for writing a book.

Any book?

 

[tarheelbybirth]

If the doctor simply writes a book praising some alternative medicine, he should not lose his license. That's ridiculous.

Can his employer fire him? I assume this guy still has his credentials. Surely he can get a job at the French equivalent of Fox.

 

[The Tradition]

Any book?

Only if it warrants one of the few valid reasons to infringe on freedom of speech. So, if it's libellous and caused the employer harm, that would be an example where termination could be warranted.

 

[naturalmwa]

The Church was the source for EVERYTHING.

Now you sound like the Catholic Church.

 

[The Tradition]

Can his employer fire him?

I would say the employer should need to show some actual harm from this employee's book. Just because they don't like it would be pretty petty.

 

[cigaretteman]

Only if it warrants one of the few valid reasons to infringe on freedom of speech. So, if it's libellous and caused the employer harm, that would be an example where termination could be warranted.

In the U.S., free speech is only protected from the government, not from the private sector by the constitution. Who knows about France? So you would prefer that the government force the private sector to allow freedom of speech upon its employees? Sounds like big government meddling to me!

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Now you sound like the Catholic Church.

Yeah, because I'm condoning it. Are you stupid? Have you ever read up on topics like The Catholic Church vs. Galileo?

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Only if it warrants one of the few valid reasons to infringe on freedom of speech. So, if it's libellous and caused the employer harm, that would be an example where termination could be warranted.

His freedom of speech was not infringed. At all. Period.

 

[The Tradition]

In the U.S., free speech is only protected from the government, not from the private sector by the constitution. Who knows about France? So you would prefer that the government force the private sector to allow freedom of speech upon its employees? Sounds like big government meddling to me!

Libel and slander are enforced between private parties all the time.

As for the government meddling, would you be comfortable if Hobby Lobby started firing any employee they believe to be a liberal? Or should employers be required to focus on performance of the job and not what employees do, say or think when they're off work?

 

[naturalmwa]

Yeah, because I'm condoning it. Are you stupid? Have you ever read up on topics like The Catholic Church vs. Galileo?

Go on, educate us. Show us how it applies. Show your work.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

I would say the employer should need to show some actual harm from this employee's book. Just because they don't like it would be pretty petty.

And people are fired for petty reasons...or no reasons...every day.