Tournament Thoughts
- Thread starter Iowabandwagon
- Start date
Really thought cobe was on a round of 12/AA path prior to injury. Some rookie mistakes that can be cleaned up - but a healthy cobe at 57 next year would be great imho
Was kind of like reliving a nightmare, but I found this 'analysis' of the Ramos move interesting. Curious what others think.
My thoughts: Iowa wrestled very well (except for Spencer) for their talent level, but we need more horses, which has been a relatively consistent theme for awhile. And now Spencer's gone.
Excellent breakdown. I don’t know that Spencer holding on to the body lock for less time would’ve mattered though. It for sure could have made the difference but it looked like Ramos was immediately fishing for the arm or head. One thing for certain, he’s right that Spencer should’ve just held onto the elbow and forced Ramos to try to whip him over or go for broke some other way…locking there gave him the chance to do what he did. I wouldn’t have ever been in that situation to begin with, though, because I was never good enough to be in that situation. So who am I to judge? Maybe it was fatigue and not thinking straight. I know a thing or two about that.
The sucky thing is if he is wrestling with good wheels his anchor is such that he probably wouldn't get budged. His mind is going to still feel positions are ok for him but his body not on the same plan.
Spot on. There are 2 levels of analysis. For *this* team, this was a solid performance, minus Spencer and 10 seconds of Real. Murin broke through. Nelson and Warner had great runs to 5th. Cass was Cass. PK was PK. Rough draw hurt him, but he was a fringe AA candidate at this weight all year and that's what he was last weekend.
Then there's the broader view which is that this team is way short on elite talent to even make PSU sweat. They had 8 AA's, but more importantly 7 top 3 finishers. 7 huge scorers. Iowa had 1. That gap isn't closing by next year or anytime soon with the recruits that are signed, so that's gotta change.
But it was refreshing to see several on the team peak for this tournament. That's a step in the right direction.
I’ve seen this idea from several others, as well, and agree in principle. However, my one concern is about whether technical difficulties are at play in a given review taking a long time. I think fans will be just as ticked if a review doesn’t go their way because they couldn’t get the video up until the 1:50 marker on the 2:00 clock. And if that happens more to one team than another at a given event, it triggers conspiracy theorism.
Let’s face it, the tech is not going to be reliable in its punctuality at least 95% of the time, which is the bar needed for fairness, IMO. A solution to that might be to not start the 2-min clock until the tech is working . . . but then you are back to the original problem of a lengthy break in the action. And what happens if the tech breaks down during the review? Fans will want transparency, and officials trying to explain why a review was permitted to continue past 2 mins adds only more time to the break in the action.
And how many times do we see it take at least a minute just to get the mat clock and/or riding time clock set to the correct time?
So again, I agree with the concept of a review clock, but I doubt the average venue/table team has the capacity to execute.
A friend of mine from Cresco,Iowa sent me a copy of what Jacob Warner said in the Sunday DesMoines sports section. Warner said, “I know I’m not a fan favorite “. “I’ve known that for a long time and I don’t really give a shit”. I think you probably know now what Warner would say directly to your face when it comes to sticking “should have up your ass”.
Well said. I’m going to have to agree. There are very few positions Spencer hasn’t been in and that one’s certainly not an exception. His instinct was to go lock and his body said nope to defending the wrap. The rest is history. Also, for those up in the air about him competing (not you MVP) he will be wrestling freestyle. That’s 100% going to happen.
As far as emotions, I was there in '95 when McIlravy went down. This nationals hurts worse. At least we had a team championship when Lincoln lost. This is mere sports, but I will have sport's PTSD from Spencer going down. I'm getting to the point where I'm feeling Iowa wrestling takes more than it gives me when it comes to the joy of being a fan. However, give me a few months and I'm sure I'll be on the bandwagon again, lol. Next year will be 30 years in a row I've gone, so I'm going to that one for sure. After that, the string may be over. Right now, I don't feel like going to Philly to watch Starocci get his fifth as the lions cruise to another title.
Here are my thoughts on our wrestlers.
125 - My heart breaks for Spencer. I can only attempt to imagine the anguish. What a great sportsman, how he congratulated Ramos and Glory. Having said that, the loss was due more to stupid wrestling. As Clint says, "A man has got to know his limitations." Earlier in the year I wrote that the formula to beat Spencer had been written. And it occurred exactly according to script. Do whatever it takes to not go do your back twice in a match. And stay away with a couple dozen seconds remaining!!!! Good grief, take even a couple stall calls if you have to. Do what it takes to make the finals. I believe I'm in the anger stage of grief, lol.
133 - Teske had a tough draw, but he's not the answer. Go to the portal. It's inexcusable for Hawkeye wrestling to not have a monster at this weight.
141 - Real Woods is the real deal. I noticed he applauded his opponent's championship. Excellent. I believe the call was incorrect. I believe it is a fact he was not past 45 degrees for a four count. Unreal.
149 - Great job Max Murin. A couple inches to the side and back points are scored and he beats Yanni. I am so very thrilled he became an AA. At the covid nationals his dad was one of the few there, and he was sitting just a feet away when Max failed to AA. He threw his hat in utter anguish and it bounced off of us. I wish I could have seen his joy when Max made it this year. Wow, did Max have great words for the coaching staff afterwards!
157 - Siebrecht is fun to watch. I hope he heals up. But I'll have to wait to see what he can do then. I would prefer one of our new recruits to take his place.
165 - Kennedy really disappointed me. What a rotten shot on Amine . . . more stupid wrestling. But I'm glad we have him for three more years. I think he gets it done before he's gone.
174 - Nelson is receiving my "Most Improved Wrestler" award. Wow, it was fun even watching the funk he employed. I think he even scored on a Chinese wizzer, or whatever you call it. He has an awesome gas tank and his body looks to really be at the right weight. I hope he comes back and wrestles like his dad. Beat Starocci and you will be my hero! His words afterwards were a testament to why a wrestler should come to Iowa for the right support.
184 - I'm officially done with Assad. Yes, I know he was injured, but when I saw all the activity he could do in 25 seconds at the very end of OT I realized he is just a lazy, lazy wrestler. He's a head case that can't get the right feel to pull the triggers. We need to go to the portal. He's a bust, imo.
197 - Warner was injured this year. And he was a four-time AA. I'll take it! I was very surprised how many Hawk fans chose him to win. That was obviously not going to happen. Rocky Elam has his number.
HWT - Cass wrestled well. He simply doesn't have the horsepower or size for people like Parris and Kerkvliet. I hope he obsessively tries to put even more muscle on during the off season.
I'm also surprised at the number of Hawk fans that didn't mind RBY and his style. He intentionally hurt DeSanto's knee. He knew pulling up hard and fast on the toes with the foot pointed sideways in that position would stretch the MCL. We didn't forget that. And we didn't forget his stall ride. We couldn't stand that guy, and it was one of our highlights to not only see him lose on the biggest stage but get dominated. I hope the humbling does him some good on his journey in life.
What a bizarre nationals, when the 1st and 2nd place teams never wrestled each other. At least we can say the rest of the field also let it run down their legs in letting PSU run away with it. However, it was nice to see the lions lose most of their finals. It appears Cael is not invincible when it comes to coaching for nationals. Horsepower, horsepower, horsepower was the key there. Vito was more explosive than RBY, O'Conner was an immovable tank against Haines, and Parris' muscle overwhelmed Kerkvliet. We need more power in our wrestlers.
Here are my thoughts on our wrestlers.
125 - My heart breaks for Spencer. I can only attempt to imagine the anguish. What a great sportsman, how he congratulated Ramos and Glory. Having said that, the loss was due more to stupid wrestling. As Clint says, "A man has got to know his limitations." Earlier in the year I wrote that the formula to beat Spencer had been written. And it occurred exactly according to script. Do whatever it takes to not go do your back twice in a match. And stay away with a couple dozen seconds remaining!!!! Good grief, take even a couple stall calls if you have to. Do what it takes to make the finals. I believe I'm in the anger stage of grief, lol.
133 - Teske had a tough draw, but he's not the answer. Go to the portal. It's inexcusable for Hawkeye wrestling to not have a monster at this weight.
141 - Real Woods is the real deal. I noticed he applauded his opponent's championship. Excellent. I believe the call was incorrect. I believe it is a fact he was not past 45 degrees for a four count. Unreal.
149 - Great job Max Murin. A couple inches to the side and back points are scored and he beats Yanni. I am so very thrilled he became an AA. At the covid nationals his dad was one of the few there, and he was sitting just a feet away when Max failed to AA. He threw his hat in utter anguish and it bounced off of us. I wish I could have seen his joy when Max made it this year. Wow, did Max have great words for the coaching staff afterwards!
157 - Siebrecht is fun to watch. I hope he heals up. But I'll have to wait to see what he can do then. I would prefer one of our new recruits to take his place.
165 - Kennedy really disappointed me. What a rotten shot on Amine . . . more stupid wrestling. But I'm glad we have him for three more years. I think he gets it done before he's gone.
174 - Nelson is receiving my "Most Improved Wrestler" award. Wow, it was fun even watching the funk he employed. I think he even scored on a Chinese wizzer, or whatever you call it. He has an awesome gas tank and his body looks to really be at the right weight. I hope he comes back and wrestles like his dad. Beat Starocci and you will be my hero! His words afterwards were a testament to why a wrestler should come to Iowa for the right support.
184 - I'm officially done with Assad. Yes, I know he was injured, but when I saw all the activity he could do in 25 seconds at the very end of OT I realized he is just a lazy, lazy wrestler. He's a head case that can't get the right feel to pull the triggers. We need to go to the portal. He's a bust, imo.
197 - Warner was injured this year. And he was a four-time AA. I'll take it! I was very surprised how many Hawk fans chose him to win. That was obviously not going to happen. Rocky Elam has his number.
HWT - Cass wrestled well. He simply doesn't have the horsepower or size for people like Parris and Kerkvliet. I hope he obsessively tries to put even more muscle on during the off season.
I'm also surprised at the number of Hawk fans that didn't mind RBY and his style. He intentionally hurt DeSanto's knee. He knew pulling up hard and fast on the toes with the foot pointed sideways in that position would stretch the MCL. We didn't forget that. And we didn't forget his stall ride. We couldn't stand that guy, and it was one of our highlights to not only see him lose on the biggest stage but get dominated. I hope the humbling does him some good on his journey in life.
What a bizarre nationals, when the 1st and 2nd place teams never wrestled each other. At least we can say the rest of the field also let it run down their legs in letting PSU run away with it. However, it was nice to see the lions lose most of their finals. It appears Cael is not invincible when it comes to coaching for nationals. Horsepower, horsepower, horsepower was the key there. Vito was more explosive than RBY, O'Conner was an immovable tank against Haines, and Parris' muscle overwhelmed Kerkvliet. We need more power in our wrestlers.
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He had a similar situation at the end of the 1st, but no body lock and he basically casts over to avoid anything. He could’ve done the same here if he doesn’t body lock.
It's a fatigued decision. You are kinda hoping that Ramos won't know what to do with it. I would argue that one of Spencer's strengths is also his biggest vulnerability. And that is that he will try to wrestle through positions that he should concede. This was a bit of an awkward spot. We have the benefit of hindsight. I think if he keeps that elbow maybe he can spraw or get his legs back. He'd probably be pretty vulnerable to a go behind there but that would be OK.
Ironically, in an interview this year he said if he got ahead by four points, there was no way anybody was going to then score 6 on him. That's exactly what Ramos did, had he not pinned him.
I don’t remember a more exciting March tourney. The high sense of urgency from the low seed to the tops seeds stood out for me.
Somebody said the BOK arena was chili. Maybe we need to dial the temp down for the rest of them.
Majority of matches had game plans from the 1st period to the 3rd. Very little wait it out and feel em out.
Underdogs going for big throws, some getting them (Ramos, Alriez) you have to assume a good one by gomez if he was healthy (we were all robbed of a healthy gomez vs yianni finals)
This years tourney made the superhumans human again (Lee, RBY, Yianni)
Plus, some of the best post match interviews.
This weekend made me appreciate the sport. It’s so damn hard what these kids do at this level. Fans don’t know because wrestlers are tough and are good at hiding pain.
Thanks to the athletes and all the tribes that make these high end super warriors.
Somebody said the BOK arena was chili. Maybe we need to dial the temp down for the rest of them.
Majority of matches had game plans from the 1st period to the 3rd. Very little wait it out and feel em out.
Underdogs going for big throws, some getting them (Ramos, Alriez) you have to assume a good one by gomez if he was healthy (we were all robbed of a healthy gomez vs yianni finals)
This years tourney made the superhumans human again (Lee, RBY, Yianni)
Plus, some of the best post match interviews.
This weekend made me appreciate the sport. It’s so damn hard what these kids do at this level. Fans don’t know because wrestlers are tough and are good at hiding pain.
Thanks to the athletes and all the tribes that make these high end super warriors.
This is so true and just to prove it to the PSU fans/trolls, Kirk had a knee injury in the finals from this exact stall ride!
Yeah, winning 2 of 5 in championship matches does seem a bit off for Cael. Perhaps winning 7 of 7 in the qtr's, 5 of 7 in the semi's, 5 of 5 in the consi semi's/medal matches, and having the Team Championship wrapped up by lunch Saturday, eroded his coaching mojo a bit, but who knows?
When you pump up a narrative of invincibility in certain situations, you are going to be open to criticism when it doesn't happen. No one is saying they aren't the best team or that they didn't have a great tournament. Hell, 7 top 3 finishes is ridiculous.
But, 2 for 5 certainly drops that percentage everyone has been lauding for so long. Even 5 out of 7 is below what has been touted for semifinal performance.
Also, it is only normal and FAIR to look for chinks in the armor when trying to chase a dynasty. Seeing them actually lose some matches in those rounds at least gives others hope. The problem is PSU actually had a deeper team this year at NCAA's than I can ever remember. So, they could afford to have some hammers not quite finish on top.
Losing RBY and Dean is going to sting a little, but I don't see a team nearly deep enough to challenge them even without the points those 2 scored...
I couldn't believe that Spencer went for a body lock there rather than just squeezing the elbows.
A guy like Spencer simply doesn't think he is going to get thrown, especially with the level of "fatigue brain" that he was almost certainly wrestling with at that point. He simply fell back to instincts and that is the position those instincts pushed him towards...
Ultimately Iowa needs a few more high end sports cars in the garage to catch PSU.
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That's a good take. Psu had four champs 2 years ago and loses, this year 2/5 and they win easily .
One thing I find odd about the tournament is I'm happy then disappointed and that goes back and forth until it's over.
Losing the last match always is a bummer. Even if you had 4 finalists win. 🤷♂️. So wrapping up the team title is awesome , but I'm bummed with every loss. I guess they had 7 tourney losses, and even with the great finishes it's always a little bit of a bummer.
Yep, you're absolutely right. And Spencer is good enough that he can usually wrestle through positions where he's at a disadvantage and where lesser wrestlers would bail or get beat.
I have said this over and over again. The biggest separator between Iowa and PSU is recruiting. Plain and simple. PSU guys can come on here and argue the nuances all they want. But, the fact remains. Iowa averages 30ish p4ps across their starting lineup. PSU averages 5ish. That is a MONUMENTAL difference.
This most recent recruiting class really helped close the gap. However, the Jesuroga situation really hurt and Keuter MUST be all in for wrestling or it really brings that class down much closer to "average".
Hopefully the upgrades in funding, facilities and the RTC can be those "nuances" to even the recruiting playing field. Hell, even if Iowa can cut their starter p4p recruiting average in half to say 15 or so, I think that would drastically increase their chances in at least challenging PSU 1 out of 3 years, instead of 2 out of 12...
I see what you did there
Wasn't he, counting riding time, tantamount to ahead by 4 points before Ramos last escaped?
Dang it, man! I'm not going to watch it again to find out!
Brother, me neither. I’m still in shock over him losing. Trying to shake it. My neighbor left a pair of pajama pants on my porch. I seriously considered wrapping them around a brick, lighting them on fire and throwing them through his living room window. We’re close but he was close to losing some teeth over that. Maybe I’ll offer to tie one of my arms behind my back and square up in my yard. Damn psu fans.
