The last couple of years we are seeing guys lose in the national tourney to guys they beat, and often times beat somewhat handily in the regular season. Not sure what the issue is but not a good look.
Troubling trend
- Thread starter augiehawk
- Start date
I was just thinking about the Bull. He came into college a finished product. People complain that he didn’t improve much at Iowa. I propose there wasn’t really any room for improvement. He was already very near the top of his potential. Many wrestlers seem to “peak” at nationals. I feel the Bull gave his best every time out on the mat. It really isn’t him regressing at NCAA’s as much as it is about others finding another level while AM was wrestling at his maximum potential all year. Not sure if it’s true but it kind of feels like it to me.
Some athletes just can't performance under the big lights... he's a perfect example.
Yep. All of his state titles, high school national tournaments, or his 4 big ten titles weren’t “big lights”(I think you meant bright lights) 🤦♂️
Really? How many Big Ten titles does someone need to consider them able to perform under the “big lights”?
Are we saying the Big Ten titles are equal to National Championships? I think Marinelli would agree they are both very different competitions when you consider his results in both.
You know exactly what I am saying. He hasn’t performed as well as you expect him to at Nationals yet has 4 titles in the toughest conference in the nation. To say that he “can’t performance under the big lights” is idiotic. You can run along back to the basketball board now.
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This is an interesting take. Maybe Bull was not your typical freshman. But I don’t agree that he was at the top of his potential, that’s ridiculous. He did give his best, he’s a warrior. So others figured him out. There are similar thoughts on another thread. That is completely on the coaches, and they need to work with him so he’s not so one dimensional. Here’s something to ponder…. RBY lost to Austin his first 2 matches. He adjusted, and hasn’t lost since. That’s coaching. Thats what you wanted to see with Bull.
I thought it was all recruiting and you don’t need to coach anyone up? Marinelli may have left his heart on the mat but he either was never put in a position to compete against the best or didn’t listen very well. He started out with great positioning and a nice snatch single. Ended his career as an aspiring sumo wrestler actively pursuing and motioning to the ref for stall calls to win matches. This is not freestyle who the hell told him to keep up that strategy? Where the hell is the coaching? In fact Brands actively went along with the stall tactics. That may work in Carver but it sure doesn’t travel well when you have to beat 4 or 5 great wrestlers not 1 or 2 to win Bigs.
We were talking in the arena today trying to name a wrestler with higher accolades or expectations in a good program with several chances just not pull it off to even make a semifinal at the national tournament.
IMO - Bull has gotten away from what worked for him in the past.
No longer does he look for chest wraps, body locks, or throws.
No longer does he even attempt to ride.
He used to be a big move, big point machine that could then turn on a hellacious ride.
Remember us complaining about him spending too much time riding looking for that 3/4 nelson? That seems like a distant memory.
The throws can be explained by guys wrestling at distance or refusing to tie, but I remember the old days where he'd force that position and stalk his guys to the edge because they knew what was coming.
The riding, however, makes no sense. He doesn't even attempt it at this point.
Idk, perhaps his philosophy changed this year and he was simply in "survival mode". But it seems counterproductive to go away from your two best positions (neutral and top game) and instead rely on last second/ OT TD's to squeak out a win.
We can call it whatever we want, but I think the best word right now is "Disappointing"
No longer does he look for chest wraps, body locks, or throws.
No longer does he even attempt to ride.
He used to be a big move, big point machine that could then turn on a hellacious ride.
Remember us complaining about him spending too much time riding looking for that 3/4 nelson? That seems like a distant memory.
The throws can be explained by guys wrestling at distance or refusing to tie, but I remember the old days where he'd force that position and stalk his guys to the edge because they knew what was coming.
The riding, however, makes no sense. He doesn't even attempt it at this point.
Idk, perhaps his philosophy changed this year and he was simply in "survival mode". But it seems counterproductive to go away from your two best positions (neutral and top game) and instead rely on last second/ OT TD's to squeak out a win.
We can call it whatever we want, but I think the best word right now is "Disappointing"
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You're right, Hooray. My memory was clouded by the disappointment of 3 consecutive losses after that happened that year followed by the continual disappointment year after year. Sorry.
I’m not embarrassed by our team in any way shape or form. I am embarrassed by some of our “fans” however. Some absolutely idiotic takes on multiple threads. We were the best team in the country for two straight years. This year we lost SL and had at least 4 MAJOR injuries to our remaining lineup and since we didn’t do it a third year in a row it’s on the coaches. Yep the brands need to go. What Jimmy Z doing these days? Maybe he can resurrect this shameful program.
Definitely not looking for Brands to go. They do however need to do an evaluation of their methods. When does fairly consistent ‘bad luck’ injuries become a pattern? When does a fairly consistent lack of offense become a pattern and get tweaked? 1-1, 2-1 matches holding out at the end puts you on the edge.
I wonder if there are lingering effects from his broken rib that have caused this change in his approach. Certain positions don't have the same feel or he doesn't have the same strength.
He was riding quite a bit at the beginning of the year. He was spending tons of time trying to get that turn and was't able to turn anyone
not going to find a better coach than brands. with that being said, i think there need to be some adjustments. some fresh perspectives on training and competition philosophy. bring in a young rising assistant who wasn’t a hawkeye. there are a few areas that the hawks have consistently struggled with for years with little progress. time to try something new.
just when I think there aren’t anymore douche bags that haven’t shown up to the party
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RBY hasn't given up a takedown since. Hope that changes tonight. Desanto is capable for sure, just needs to find a way.
I thought it seemed like Bulls opponents have ran from him the whole tournament.... the kid from Army sure did and Amine .... how many times did he leave the mat???
why not I guess if the refs won’t call it.... saw an interview with Yianni and he mentioned how frustrating guys running was getting this tournament
why not I guess if the refs won’t call it.... saw an interview with Yianni and he mentioned how frustrating guys running was getting this tournament
Must not be very tough conference if you still can’t place above sixth at National… you’re sounding like a clown, just stop.
No!!! Disagree. Ask Vincenzo!! He was supposed to lose all matches against him. He willed his way to a win. He lost because he didn’t wrestle anyone else like he did against Vincenzo!!
any suggestions on who to bring in? who to cut/how to re-organize from the current staff
You still tone deaf?
Look in the mirror!
Your lack of self awareness is a thing to behold.
The last time I saw noticable changes from a technique perspective is when Frayer was an assistant here.
‘That’s coaching’ is a lazy take. RBY was a heralded recruit that adjusted to the college level. Nobody has beat him in two years
My main issue is not making guys better than what they are good at. Lee, DeSanto, Murin, Warner, Cassioppi have certainly improved over there time at Iowa. The strategy these guys take into ncaas isn’t always the best. Finishing takedowns against high level competition you aren’t seeing it.
It seems the issue is coaching. I've been attending Iowa wrestling for over a decade now, and so many people are making the same observation and it's this: for whatever reason, Iowa wrestlers don't adjust!!! The Bull basically has one type of shot. DeSanto .... 1-2. Eiherman--1.
Whereas other teams adjust!!! And they adjust at the national tourney--Iowa does the same ol' same ol. The guys they beat adjust ... Iowa guys don't.
You said he doesn’t perform under the “big lights” and what you meant to say was he hasn’t had great NCAA tourneys.
Throughout his career Alex proved enough times he is a gamer when the lights are big and bright. And you proved that you aren’t very articulate. Amazing, he did his thing over a career and you took one post.
If it weren't for the injuries, we are neck-and-neck with PSU. Realistically, Lee, Eierman, and Kem's injuries cost us 50 points. Maybe we lost some points with Cass too - hard saying. Just how have our coaches failed? Seems like people just can't handle the disappointment and want to blame someone. Lots of silly, whiny posts the last few days.
To win a national championship it's important to win in the semi finals, Cael is 45-5 in semi final matches in his time at Penn st so it maybe coaching and getting your guys to peak at the right time.
Or just have better recruits than everyone else and when they win as expected call it peaking.
Your lack of understanding what a message board is for is truly embarrassing.
Seems like an Astrological phenomenon. Seems to come around once a year about the 3rd weekend in March.
Kinda thinking Stonehenge was built to prevent this kind of disturbance and placate the Gods.
Beware the Ides of March is right.
Bull has done a lot for the program but he is not comparable to a 3x finalist. Warner will likely end with more NCAA team points scored for career if not done already. He was money in duals and at conference which are important too but we didn't get the NCAA scoring from him you expect from that high of recruit.
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And yet here we are, with my comments still standing… Marinelli has zero top 5 finishes under the big lights. Sorry about your feelings being so hurt by this. So many crybaby fans in here lol.
