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Here we go again

And each answer is dumber than and makes even less sense than the previous one. But you know that already. But since you’ve lost more money on gambling than anybody else on this board, you really know what you’re talking about. Lol.
AGAIN, the distinction was made when Rutgers was 12 points ahead in post #6 in this thread.

I said, I "liked" Rutgers' chances.

But "loved" my chances vs +220.

"Liked" and "loved" are not the same thing. Success for Rutgers is winning the game. Success for the sports bettor has an extra variable
 
AGAIN, the distinction was made when Rutgers was 12 points ahead in post #6 in this thread.

I said, I "liked" Rutgers' chances.

But "loved" my chances vs +220.

"Liked" and "loved" are not the same thing. Success for Rutgers is winning the game. Success for the sports bettor has an extra variable
Mr Rogers Clown GIF
 
L O L. Greenway comes to the thread at your request. You think he’s here to rescue you. Instead, he puts you in your place. Now you just call him stupid like you do everybody else. You can’t make this shit up. You have truly become the board’s premier dolt.
Yup, Greeny disappointed.

But I can already tell you what DrewHawk will say if he ends up posting. Sharp guy.

But I don't need any rescue. Can't believe I'm even arguing with you guys. Again, this is 3rd grade math. Not hard stuff.

I guess I've learned that I shouldn't engage anyone that's contributed to the sports betting part of this thread, other than Jersey, Davehawk, and ShonnDeer in football conversations. No ability from these people to listen. And will still hold out hope for Greenway. Seen some good stuff out of him before. But I'll be too dumb to execute ignoring most of you dumbasses
 
AGAIN, the distinction was made when Rutgers was 12 points ahead in post #6 in this thread.

I said, I "liked" Rutgers' chances.

But "loved" my chances vs +220.

"Liked" and "loved" are not the same thing. Success for Rutgers is winning the game. Success for the sports bettor has an extra variable
Does that drivel make feel better (bettor?) about losing money?
 
Again, this is 3rd grade math. Not hard stuff.
Most 3rd graders know that when you give someone money and don’t get it back, you “lost.” You don’t seem to get that.

Telling them that there was a 33% chance that they might have won so it’s not so bad wouldn’t make them feel better, but you seem stoked by it.

Not a single person on this board believes that you consistently win at sports gambling in the long run. You may have convinced yourself that you do, but you don’t. Much like how you’ve convinced yourself that you know more about the game of football and poker than anybody else on this board. You are officially the village idiot.
 
Most 3rd graders know that when you give someone money and don’t get it back, you “lost.” You don’t seem to get that.

Telling them that there was a 33% chance that they might have won so it’s not so bad wouldn’t make them feel better, but you seem stoked by it.

Not a single person on this board believes that you consistently win at sports gambling in the long run. You may have convinced yourself that you do, but you don’t. Much like how you’ve convinced yourself that you know more about the game of football and poker than anybody else on this board. You are officially the village idiot.
But when I make winning bets (meaning they have an edge vs the price in the long run), I do get it back.

I am absolutely stoked to be able to find opportunities that make me money over time. Most of you do very similar things.

If I'm judged vs people on this board for the rest of my life people may think I'm the Pope. Most of you guys don't even believe that football is won up-front. There may be a couple good poker players on this board. I have no way of knowing, other than knowing the odds are against it. As previously mentioned, I know DrewHawk to be a good Omaha player. Fivecardstud is probably decent at five card stud. But I'd take my chances against each and every one of you at the card table.

I'm done. This is a joke
 
Did the prevent defense once again prevention of winning? That is Houston Oilers V Buffalo Bills playoff type collapse.
It wasn't 35-0 in the Rutgers game.

Not sure what that was supposed to mean. Vs Tennessee maybe, because I was talking about bowl season? You know how people are hung up on that particular 0-1, lol
 
Maybe you aren't as sharp as I thought in sports betting.

You should have stopped after the first sentence.

This Bud Elliot guy; think there might be a reason he has a podcast that you listen to? Sure, he has to sell himself. But I bet a high percentage of the time he tells you he was on the right side, he in fact was. Just like I said earlier in the thread, just because Rutgers+7 won doesn't mean the bet had an edge before the game, although I think it did this particular time.

DrewHawk? Quite the Omaha player as I understand. Surely he understands some sports betting concepts. Care to jump in and send the 7th grade girls' club going to the bathroom back to 3rd grade math class?
Pretty crazy that my post of “just accept the loss” has led you to that conclusion. I’m looking at some other numbers that would suggest Rutgers was fortunate to keep it close, but hey, I’m just a guy on a message board.

I listen to the Cover 3 Podcast, of which Bud Elliott (whose specialty is recruiting and player evaluation) is one member out of four, because it’s informative, entertaining, and I appreciate the different viewpoints and how each member of the pod sees the game. They (along with Split Zone Duo and The Solid Verbal) cover the whole sport relatively free of conference bias. I don’t listen for gambling picks, although fading the entire Cover 3 pod would have been profitable this year.

And if you’re looking for @drew_hawk , he periodically posts in my thread over on the OT board devoted to sports betting. It’s been going for over 4 years and is 358+ pages. I’ll let him know you’re looking for him.
 
But when I make winning bets (meaning they have an edge vs the price in the long run), I do get it back.

I am absolutely stoked to be able to find opportunities that make me money over time. Most of you do very similar things.

If I'm judged vs people on this board for the rest of my life people may think I'm the Pope. Most of you guys don't even believe that football is won up-front. There may be a couple good poker players on this board. I have no way of knowing, other than knowing the odds are against it. As previously mentioned, I know DrewHawk to be a good Omaha player. Fivecardstud is probably decent at five card stud. But I'd take my chances against each and every one of you at the card table.

I'm done. This is a joke
While I have no idea who you are, I can tell everyone with absolute certainty that those who think they are good at poker have zero idea how good the professionals really are. And that goes for the professional sport betters too.
 
What few brain cells I had left dissolved due to reading this thread.

In the interests of public health, apply the fix described in post #138.
 
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I would tend to agree with OP that many of the same Game Theory and Estimated Value concepts used by successful professional poker players would also extend to successful long-term sports betting strategy. Similar to poker, if you are placing bets and unit sizing based on your own handicapping of available contest betting odds being offered, then it stands to reason that the focus needs to be on analyzing your long-term results when applying your strategy over a significant sample size, as opposed to short-term/ individual bet outcomes/ individual hand results.

As poker is concerned (specifically Omaha, more specifically PLO), the margins are often very slim, and therefore taking advantage of +EV scenarios is very important; you need to always be ready and willing to take advantage when you feel you have +EV play. This is often also the case with sports betting, and of course requires that you maintain sound discipline, i.e understand and practice good bank roll management, do not play/ bet above your means (in poker this would typically dictate never having more than 5-10% of your bankroll in play at any given time), do not overact to bad beats on single hands/bets, look for spots that you feel you have an edge to exploit, and most importantly track and trend your overall results.

Poker wise, you cannot truly assess whether or not the strategy you are employing is a winning strategy until you have analyzed results from a minimum of 200 hours of playing time (referring to cash games, not tournaments). I'm not sure exactly how this corresponds to sports betting as I only sports bet recreationally, however I am quite sure that the OP has a sound understanding of how to assess his results over the long hall, and I know that he spends a significant amount of time researching, analyzing results, and developing/ fine tuning his sports betting strategies.

In this respect, sports betting and PLO (pot-limit omaha) have a lot in common in terms of long term strategy. In fact, they also have a lot in common in terms of short-term shot taking as well, as you can sometimes hit big by taking shots above your typical means; of course this is rarely a successful long-term strategy, but most recreational poker players and sports betters are not concerned with long-term results.

In regards to the specific bet being discussed in this thread, yes the final results were that it was a losing bet, however the OP's contention is that his bet would be considered a positive EV play in the long-term, and when you are playing using a long-term strategy, it is important that you trust your assessments of +EV plays and place your bets accordingly without getting hung up on your bad beats. Therefore, while the bet itself resulted in a loss, the OP believes that based on his past experience, research, and assessments of the odds that were being offered at the time he booked the bet, this specific situational wager would result in an overall win more often than an overall loss in the long-term.

It's important to understand that for long-term strategy to be successful the individual bet/ hand must not be seen as existing in a vacuum, but rather as one data point which is a part of a larger results sample for which proper assessments would only be useful once a large enough sample size has been achieved. In this sense, its not about the results of this one specific bet, but rather about the greater long-term results of the many bets placed over the course of time that fall into the same category of potential +EV value. It's like Papa Wallenda said, "Life is on the wire; the rest is just waiting."
 
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I would tend to agree with OP that many of the same Game Theory and Estimated Value concepts used by successful professional poker players would also extend to successful long-term sports betting strategy. Similar to poker, if you are placing bets and unit sizing based on your own handicapping of available contest betting odds being offered, then it stands to reason that the focus needs to be on analyzing your long-term results when applying your strategy over a significant sample size, as opposed to short-term/ individual bet outcomes/ individual hand results.

As poker is concerned (specifically Omaha, more specifically PLO), the margins are often very slim, and therefore taking advantage of +EV scenarios is very important; you need to always be ready and willing to take advantage when you feel you have +EV play. This is often also the case with sports betting, and of course requires that you maintain sound discipline, i.e understand and practice good bank roll management, do not play/ bet above your means (in poker this would typically dictate never having more than 5-10% of your bankroll in play at any given time), do not overact to bad beats on single hands/bets, look for spots that you feel you have an edge to exploit, and most importantly track and trend your overall results.

Poker wise, you cannot truly assess whether or not the strategy you are employing is a winning strategy until you have analyzed results from a minimum of 200 hours of playing time (referring to cash games, not tournaments). I'm not sure exactly how this corresponds to sports betting as I only sports bet recreationally, however I am quite sure that the OP has a sound understanding of how to assess his results over the long hall, and I know that he spends a significant amount of time researching, analyzing results, and developing/ fine tuning his sports betting strategies.

In this respect, sports betting and PLO (pot-limit omaha) have a lot in common in terms of long term strategy. In fact, they also have a lot in common in terms of short-term shot taking as well, as you can sometimes hit big by taking shots above your typical means; of course this is rarely a successful long-term strategy, but most recreational poker players and sports betters are not concerned with long-term results.

In regards to the specific bet being discussed in this thread, yes the final results were that it was a losing bet, however the OP's contention is that his bet would be considered a positive EV play in the long-term, and when you are playing using a long-term strategy, it is important that you trust your assessments of +EV plays and place your bets accordingly without getting hung up on your bad beats. Therefore, while the bet itself resulted in a loss, the OP believes that based on his past experience, research, and assessments of the odds that were being offered at the time he booked the bet, this specific situational wager would result in an overall win more often than an overall loss in the long-term. It's important to understand that for long-term strategy to be successful the individual bet/ hand must not be seen as existing in a vacuum, but rather as one data point which is a part of a larger results sample for which proper assessments would only be useful once a large enough sample size has been achieved. In this sense, its not about the results of this one specific bet, but rather about the greater long-term results of the many bets that fall into the same category of potential +EV value.
Day-um!
This analysis timewarped/flashbacked me to 1968 in HS Analytic Geometry., which I somehow survived.
 
Simple:

When I win a bet, I get $. When I don't win a bet, I lose $.

I don't pretend that my losing bets are really winning bets because they should have won at least 1 out of 3 times.

You think if I use a bunch of gambling buzz-words on this board that it will impress everyone?

LOL
I rarely place bets, and when I do it’s the really simple ones. I’ve read this thread and what OP is saying makes no sense to me. With virtually no experience in sports betting, it appears to me that billion dollar casinos in Las Vegas were built on “experts” like OP placing a lot of bets they were convinced would pay off “over time”.
 
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I rarely place bets, and when I do it’s the really simple ones. I’ve read this thread and what OP is saying makes no sense to me. With virtually no experience in sports betting, it appears to me that billion dollar casinos in Las Vegas were built on “experts” like OP placing a lot of bets they were convinced would pay off “over time”.
When you place a +220 bet, you expect it to lose more often than not.

It's all about if you think it will win more than 31.25% of the time. That's all there is too it.

Oops, I forgot I was done with this thread. Can't help myself sometimes and you at least seemed respectful enough to respond to
 
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I would tend to agree with OP that many of the same Game Theory and Estimated Value concepts used by successful professional poker players would also extend to successful long-term sports betting strategy. Similar to poker, if you are placing bets and unit sizing based on your own handicapping of available contest betting odds being offered, then it stands to reason that the focus needs to be on analyzing your long-term results when applying your strategy over a significant sample size, as opposed to short-term/ individual bet outcomes/ individual hand results.

As poker is concerned (specifically Omaha, more specifically PLO), the margins are often very slim, and therefore taking advantage of +EV scenarios is very important; you need to always be ready and willing to take advantage when you feel you have +EV play. This is often also the case with sports betting, and of course requires that you maintain sound discipline, i.e understand and practice good bank roll management, do not play/ bet above your means (in poker this would typically dictate never having more than 5-10% of your bankroll in play at any given time), do not overact to bad beats on single hands/bets, look for spots that you feel you have an edge to exploit, and most importantly track and trend your overall results.

Poker wise, you cannot truly assess whether or not the strategy you are employing is a winning strategy until you have analyzed results from a minimum of 200 hours of playing time (referring to cash games, not tournaments). I'm not sure exactly how this corresponds to sports betting as I only sports bet recreationally, however I am quite sure that the OP has a sound understanding of how to assess his results over the long hall, and I know that he spends a significant amount of time researching, analyzing results, and developing/ fine tuning his sports betting strategies.

In this respect, sports betting and PLO (pot-limit omaha) have a lot in common in terms of long term strategy. In fact, they also have a lot in common in terms of short-term shot taking as well, as you can sometimes hit big by taking shots above your typical means; of course this is rarely a successful long-term strategy, but most recreational poker players and sports betters are not concerned with long-term results.

In regards to the specific bet being discussed in this thread, yes the final results were that it was a losing bet, however the OP's contention is that his bet would be considered a positive EV play in the long-term, and when you are playing using a long-term strategy, it is important that you trust your assessments of +EV plays and place your bets accordingly without getting hung up on your bad beats. Therefore, while the bet itself resulted in a loss, the OP believes that based on his past experience, research, and assessments of the odds that were being offered at the time he booked the bet, this specific situational wager would result in an overall win more often than an overall loss in the long-term.

It's important to understand that for long-term strategy to be successful the individual bet/ hand must not be seen as existing in a vacuum, but rather as one data point which is a part of a larger results sample for which proper assessments would only be useful once a large enough sample size has been achieved. In this sense, its not about the results of this one specific bet, but rather about the greater long-term results of the many bets placed over the course of time that fall into the same category of potential +EV value. It's like Papa Wallenda said, "Life is on the wire; the rest is just waiting."
Great insight and quote!
 
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...it appears to me that billion dollar casinos in Las Vegas were built on “experts” like OP placing a lot of bets they were convinced would pay off “over time”.
In order to survive as a professional gambler, you have to be exceedingly disciplined, and put in lots and lots of time in analysis/finding overlooked edges. In terms of ROI (I = time and $) it becomes much worse than having even a low paying square job. In my too long life, I've known exactly one person who was able to live for a few years 'professionally' gaming -- 80% blackjack/poker.

One. And he gave it up after a few years.

I've never heard of anyone who has made any kind of sustained living exclusively sports betting. I'm sure there are some, and I'm also sure that they comprise significantly less than 1% of total sports bettors.

If someone tells you they make a lot of money betting on sports, they are lying to you. Period.
 
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Rutgers doing work against KSt. 34-17 in the 3rd.

Remember last bowl season when Rutgers manhandled Miami? NW beat Utah. Wisconsin gave LSU all they wanted.

All teams that Iowa beat. 2 away from Kinnick.

Of course those teams never had a pulse, though.

Such a disrespect to how hard it is to win at all at that level, let alone for pretty much over 20 years straight
Dear Dork,

Iowa did not play Rutgers this season. Whatever point you were trying to make fell completely flat.

Sincerely,
Reality
 
In order to survive as a professional gambler, you have to be exceedingly disciplined, and put in lots and lots of time in analysis/finding overlooked edges. In terms of ROI (I = time and $) it becomes much worse than having even a low paying square job. In my too long life, I've known exactly one person who was able to live for a few years 'professionally' gaming -- 80% blackjack/poker.

One. And he gave it up after a few years.

I've never heard of anyone who has made any kind of sustained living exclusively sports betting. I'm sure there are some, and I'm also sure that they comprise significantly less than 1% of total sports bettors.

If someone tells you they make a lot of money betting on sports, they are lying to you. Period.

eyes is a deluded clown.
You put a lot of words into my mouth there if you were referring to me.

I never said I make a lot of money betting on sports. I never said it is my exclusive source of income, or even that I do it professionally.

Yes, I've bet on sports almost every day for 30 years. Yes, I've put a ton of time into it. Most of those years I have taken my lumps. But this is concluding my 7th straight year of turning an overall profit. And the general trend seems that I can expect greater profits each year, as I have gradually been able to increase the size of my betting unit.

So perhaps I was misleading to say I am not a long term loser like almost everyone else. Lifetime, I'm probably still down a bit. But I've improved at my craft over time and consider myself a long term winner going forward. I suppose I could be on a 7 year hot/lucky streak. But when you bet every day, that's not really possible in this market.

My yearly profits are modest. But your numbers are accurate. About 2% of sports bettors make money over time. So I guess over the last several years I'm one of those 2%. As far as at a professional level, yes, definitely less than 1%.

I also turn a modest profit for several years at low stakes poker. Wouldn't compare it to blackjack at all, as poker is a skill game over time. Inevitability that the guy you knew had to give up blackjack and all casino games, I'm guessing
 
If someone tells you they make a lot of money betting on sports, they are lying to you. Period.
I’ve found this to be true for addicted gamblers. The lying masks the powerful need to deny the present reality of losses coupled with a persistent belief that the lucky streak or big payoff is imminent or just around the corner.

Justification/rationalization for losing bets is also a common feature. Method gamblers are the worst, always believing that they have mastered the game by developing some sort of scientific formula which will deliver gains over the long term. Bookies and casinos roll out the red carpet for these folks.
 
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I’ve found this to be true for addicted gamblers. The lying masks the powerful need to deny the present reality of losses coupled with a persistent belief that the lucky streak or big payoff is imminent or just around the corner.

Justification/rationalization for losing bets is also a common feature. Method gamblers are the worst, always believing that they have mastered the game by developing some sort of scientific formula which will deliver gains over the long term. Bookies and casinos roll out the red carpet for these folks.
I doubt that anybody I know who is a regular sports gambler wins in the long run. Of course, about 30-40% of them claim that they do. And the funny thing is the stuff they say sounds exactly like this eyeshawk dipshit, using cool words like ‘juice’ and ‘sharps’ and ‘+EV’ to try to make themselves feel smarter than you.

Sports gambling is a fun hobby. It keeps you interested in games, adds some excitement and the big wins can be thrilling. If you play within your means, then it tends to be worth the money you put into it.
 
You put a lot of words into my mouth there if you were referring to me.

I never said I make a lot of money betting on sports. I never said it is my exclusive source of income, or even that I do it professionally.

Yes, I've bet on sports almost every day for 30 years. Yes, I've put a ton of time into it. Most of those years I have taken my lumps. But this is concluding my 7th straight year of turning an overall profit. And the general trend seems that I can expect greater profits each year, as I have gradually been able to increase the size of my betting unit.

So perhaps I was misleading to say I am not a long term loser like almost everyone else. Lifetime, I'm probably still down a bit. But I've improved at my craft over time and consider myself a long term winner going forward. I suppose I could be on a 7 year hot/lucky streak. But when you bet every day, that's not really possible in this market.

My yearly profits are modest. But your numbers are accurate. About 2% of sports bettors make money over time. So I guess over the last several years I'm one of those 2%. As far as at a professional level, yes, definitely less than 1%.

I also turn a modest profit for several years at low stakes poker. Wouldn't compare it to blackjack at all, as poker is a skill game over time. Inevitability that the guy you knew had to give up blackjack and all casino games, I'm guessing
You strike me as a hobby gambler who wants people to think he's some kind of top 1% sharp. I think a lot of posters can see through to the conceit, and that's what rubs them the wrong way.

Maybe that's unfair. Maybe not. I'm not really interested enough to determine which.

A person who spends the amount of time (and energy in the form of strict discipline) it takes to actually be successful sports gaming, to make "modest" gains -- that's the very definition of a hobby gamer. You spend a lot of time and energy, trying to prove to yourself and others that you're a little more clever than the average punter. I would guess you've never made more than $10,000/year profit.

There is absolutely nothing whatsoever wrong with that. Everyone does something to distract themselves from the existential truth of inevitable death. Golf, fishing, running, gardening, painting ....the list of distractions is endless. Everyone picks up a few before they shuffle off this mortal coil.

Enjoy it. Just know that if you start pontificating like some kind of high rolling sharp, people are just naturally going to call you out on it. That's just human nature. A little humility goes a long way.

Me...I can learn the shortcuts and do the math but I have zero mental discipline. Winning or losing, after about 150 min at the table, I want to put a gun in my mouth. I would never make it gambling.
 
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For what it's worth, there is near zero risk of me becoming a problem gambler.

The reason being that I am in the same boat as the Big Bopper (RIP): "I ain't got NO money!"
 
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