What makes Ukraine so good and Russia so bad?
Trump makes a deal with Russia
- Thread starter Hawk_82
- Start date
when someone's devotion to partisan politics makes them identify with and support a European strongman dictator invading and attacking neighbors unprovoked more than an American president...there's not a whole lot left to say...
Where were you living the last 4 years. Everything I said is 100% true. Please tell me 1 thing that isn't true.
This is a left wing talking point. It is part of the propaganda and doesnt mean anything.
Trump is in Putin’s hip pocket.
Obviously you have not been paying attention.
First off, I am a female, secondly, I have stated where I come from and the places I’ve lived.
Next, I do not need to explain myself to the likes of you.
But as a final note to you, I understand the diplomatic corps and I come from a family of spooks, so, go back into your little cave with no knowledge of geopolitics and history, and drink your koolaid and worship at your god, Trump.
First off, I am a female, secondly, I have stated where I come from and the places I’ve lived.
Next, I do not need to explain myself to the likes of you.
But as a final note to you, I understand the diplomatic corps and I come from a family of spooks, so, go back into your little cave with no knowledge of geopolitics and history, and drink your koolaid and worship at your god, Trump.
Are you the one in the hat or the bald one?
This... and everyone but the cult lemmings can see it.
She won't be able to link to anything. She makes stuff up. Concentrate on the other sheep. She is a distraction and of no consequence on this message board and in life.
I did not say I share morals with Putin. But this would be a fun text. Put all the global leaders values in a system where you take a test to see whos values you match closest too. Kind of like those political affiliation tests. I don't know who I would be closest to. I have to admit I am not familiar with the intricacies of each global leaders values.
Having said that, I do think transgenderism for kids is as morally wrong as you can get. Trans in womens sports is blatantly unfair. I use these issues as a barometer for a persons ability to think critically. I immediately lose respect for people who support these issues.
do you think those issues are as bad as literally murdering political opponents?
You jackwagons supported the open border invasion. That's a traitor to the USA. Study some history yourself.
The Democrats defended slavery, Jim Crow. They founded the KKK, supported segregation, were against the Civil Rights Act of 1964, filibustered it for 72 hours, that's the Democrats real history.
You should be ashamed of yourself. You're not true Americans.
So you claim I was wrong on half the issues but when given the chance to clarify, you blow it. You know I am right. You think you are tough, and you know it all, but really you are a weak human who has fallen for the propaganda.
Back when Democrats were Conservative and Republicans had brains? Long time ago. Of course, the Dixiecrats flipped Republican BECAUSE the Democratic Party embraced the Civil Rights Act, but you knew that of course, professor. 😆
Zalensky needs liberal American recruits to reinforce his dead troops, Are you game?
Well Ukraine was invaded so they want their land back. Seems like a good move to keep it out of the hands of the Soviet Union.
When was the exact date that conservatives and dixiecrats flipped? If the Democrats embraced the Civil Rights Act, why did they vote against it and filibuster it?
It wasn't respect for the 'rule of law' that resulted in a murderous mob overthrowing an elected president.
In 2014, Senator Chris Murphy bragged about the United States successfully overthrowing Ukraine's government:
"I think it was our role, including sanctions and threats of sanctions, that forced, in part, Yanukovych from office."
"We have not sat on the sidelines. We have been very much involved. Members of the Senate have been there. Members of the State Department have been on the Square."
"The Obama administration passed sanctions. The Senate was prepared to pass its own set of sanctions, and as I've said, I think that the clear position of the United States has, in part, been what has helped lead to this change in regime."
Are 'true Americans' the ones who blindly support overthrowing elected governments?
Was it only 'true Americans' that supported the overthrow of the democratic government in Iran and all the joy that has brought the world since?
No, murder is worse. Unfortunately I think the US also has engaged in similar types of behavior. I am not a putin supporter though, I am critical of him as well. But I also do not think the US or Ukraine are morally superior either. All 3 are corrupt at times.
You’re showing your stupidity. You really do not know history and how the political parties changed and evolved.
You need to find some history books out and read them and see how the Democrats and Republicans evolved, especially in the South.
My ancestors were governors of AL and GA. Democrats back in the day. Yeah, the ones who owned slaves.
If you had half a clue those people morphed into Dixiecrats, then Republicans.
You should do research before you post. You show your ignorance
Those were Dixiecrats, Mr. Study Your History. Hence the party split post-Civil Rights Act. Dems voted over 2-to-1 in favor in the Senate:
HR. 7152. PASSAGE. -- Senate Vote #409 -- Jun 19, 1964
This was the Senate vote on the Civil Rights Act of 1964. See also the final House vote.
www.govtrack.us
There are fights and injustices all over the world that we dont do anything about, why do we care about Ukraine? It is because we want their natural resources. It is not because we feel bad for Ukraine or the people.
You are soo smart and you know so much history that you refuse to tell us about it. Got it.
Have you paid reparations? I bet you have a lot of white guilt don't you. I am proud to say that I have ancestors who fought in the civil war to free the slaves. My family was on the right side of history back then, and I will be on the right side of history as well.
Have you actually ever read about Putin era Russia? Have you bothered to seek out and read about the reasons the man is so criticized?
if you're honestly asking when it flipped, I'd say it was right around the time the guy who famously filibustered the civil rights act switched from a Democrat to a Republican
if nothing else...that's a good symbolic turning point
Degree. Degree. Degree of corruption. No, they're not close to being on the same level.
This is grade-school level argumentation. (or ignorance of the highest order -- or someone that exists in a different moral universe)
Last edited:
wow. you like putin over biden. my upbringing prevents me from telling you what i think of you.
Please , if Trump came out in favor of China tomorrow you’d be gargling their balls too.
Jesus, I haven't read all the posts after this, but...goddamn, you are ignorant. Like, wow.
Don't say I didn't warn you. She has never once in my time here linked to a fact supporting her frequent inaccurate posts. Not surprising as there would be no credible source to link to.
She questioned a comment I made about Jack Smith's prosecutorial misconduct. She was playing attorney that day. I linked to several items, including the SCOTUS' strong statement that stooped just short of stating prosecutorial misconduct. I suspect she blocked me that day.
You'll be happier if you don't engage, and the quality of your interactions from an intelligence level will immediately increase.
All this posted, she is my favorite poster on here in terms of entertainment value.
My advice is to not engage, but do not block her. It's fascinating how her areas of expertise, background and curriculum vitae constantly change. At one point she indicated she was a lecturer and involved in teaching children. Hopefully the parents are fact checking if that is true. I could actually see her as a school teacher. I won't bore you with my reasons.
@Hawk_82
I asked Grok (Musk's AI engine) to give me a summary of the "bad things" Putin is known for, take a look, and compare:
------
Vladimir Putin, as the leader of Russia since 1999 (first as acting president, then president and prime minister), has been associated with a range of actions widely criticized by the international community, human rights organizations, and political opponents. Below is an overview of some of the most notable "bad things" attributed to him, based on documented events and widely reported allegations. These span domestic repression, international aggression, and alleged war crimes.
Domestic Repression
Putin’s actions have isolated Russia internationally, deepened authoritarianism at home, and destabilized regions from Eastern Europe to the Middle East. Critics argue he prioritizes personal power and regime survival over the well-being of Russians or global stability, a view supported by his willingness to escalate conflicts—like threatening nuclear use in Ukraine—to maintain control.
This list is not exhaustive, and some allegations (e.g., direct orders for assassinations) remain unproven in a legal sense due to Russia’s opacity. However, the pattern of behavior—backed by reports from governments, NGOs, and firsthand accounts—paints a picture of a leader whose tenure has been marked by repression, aggression, and disregard for international norms. If you’d like me to dive deeper into any specific event or provide more context, let me know!
I asked Grok (Musk's AI engine) to give me a summary of the "bad things" Putin is known for, take a look, and compare:
------
Vladimir Putin, as the leader of Russia since 1999 (first as acting president, then president and prime minister), has been associated with a range of actions widely criticized by the international community, human rights organizations, and political opponents. Below is an overview of some of the most notable "bad things" attributed to him, based on documented events and widely reported allegations. These span domestic repression, international aggression, and alleged war crimes.
Domestic Repression
- Suppression of Free Press: Putin has overseen the dismantling of independent media in Russia. After coming to power, outlets like NTV were brought under state control, and critical journalists faced harassment, exile, or worse. The Committee to Protect Journalists has documented numerous cases of murdered or intimidated Russian journalists, such as Anna Politkovskaya, killed in 2006 while investigating abuses in Chechnya.
- Political Oppression: Opposition figures have been systematically targeted. High-profile cases include:
- Boris Nemtsov, a prominent critic, assassinated near the Kremlin in 2015.
- Alexei Navalny, poisoned with a nerve agent in 2020, imprisoned upon his return to Russia in 2021, and died in an Arctic prison in 2024 under suspicious circumstances widely blamed on the Kremlin.
- Laws have been enacted to label critics as "foreign agents" or extremists, effectively silencing dissent.
- Election Manipulation: Putin has maintained power through elections widely regarded as neither free nor fair. Constitutional changes in 2020 reset his term limits, potentially allowing him to rule until 2036. Independent monitors, like the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE), have repeatedly cited voter intimidation, ballot stuffing, and lack of transparency.
- Human Rights Abuses: Minority groups, particularly LGBTQ+ individuals, have faced persecution under Putin. The 2013 "gay propaganda" law and brutal crackdowns in Chechnya, including reported purges of gay men, have drawn global condemnation from groups like Human Rights Watch.
- Annexation of Crimea (2014): Putin ordered the illegal annexation of Crimea from Ukraine following a controversial referendum conducted under Russian military occupation. This violated international law, as recognized by the United Nations General Assembly (Resolution 68/262), and sparked sanctions from the West.
- War in Ukraine (2022–Present): The full-scale invasion of Ukraine, launched in February 2022, is perhaps the most significant and destructive act associated with Putin. It has resulted in:
- Tens of thousands of deaths, both military and civilian, with estimates varying widely due to the fog of war.
- Alleged war crimes, including the massacre in Bucha, where hundreds of civilians were found dead after Russian withdrawal, and the bombing of civilian infrastructure like hospitals and schools.
- The International Criminal Court (ICC) issued an arrest warrant for Putin in March 2023 for the war crime of deporting Ukrainian children—over 19,000 have been documented as forcibly taken to Russia.
- Interference in Foreign Elections: Putin’s government has been accused of meddling in democratic processes globally, most notably the 2016 U.S. presidential election. U.S. intelligence agencies concluded that Russian operatives, likely directed by the Kremlin, conducted cyberattacks and disinformation campaigns to influence the outcome.
- Support for Authoritarian Regimes: Putin has propped up dictators like Syria’s Bashar al-Assad, providing military support since 2015 that has prolonged the civil war and contributed to mass civilian casualties, including through airstrikes on populated areas.
- Poisonings and Murders Abroad: Putin’s regime has been linked to high-profile killings outside Russia:
- Alexander Litvinenko, a former FSB agent and critic, was poisoned with polonium-210 in London in 2006. A U.K. inquiry concluded Putin "probably" approved it.
- Sergei Skripal, a former spy, survived a nerve agent attack in the U.K. in 2018, widely attributed to Russian agents.
- These incidents suggest a pattern of targeting defectors and critics beyond Russia’s borders.
- Chechen Wars: Putin rose to prominence during the Second Chechen War (1999–2009), which he oversaw as prime minister and then president. The conflict saw Grozny leveled, thousands killed, and widespread human rights abuses, including torture and disappearances, documented by groups like Amnesty International.
- Kleptocracy and Corruption: Putin’s rule has been marked by systemic corruption, with estimates suggesting he and his inner circle have amassed billions. The Pandora Papers and investigations like Alexei Navalny’s exposés (e.g., the "Putin’s Palace" documentary) highlight a vast disparity between elite wealth and the stagnating Russian economy, which has hurt ordinary citizens.
- Economic Stagnation: Despite early growth fueled by oil prices, Russia’s economy has faltered under Putin, especially post-2014 sanctions. Living standards have declined for many, with poverty affecting over 10% of the population, per World Bank data, while Putin prioritizes military spending.
Putin’s actions have isolated Russia internationally, deepened authoritarianism at home, and destabilized regions from Eastern Europe to the Middle East. Critics argue he prioritizes personal power and regime survival over the well-being of Russians or global stability, a view supported by his willingness to escalate conflicts—like threatening nuclear use in Ukraine—to maintain control.
This list is not exhaustive, and some allegations (e.g., direct orders for assassinations) remain unproven in a legal sense due to Russia’s opacity. However, the pattern of behavior—backed by reports from governments, NGOs, and firsthand accounts—paints a picture of a leader whose tenure has been marked by repression, aggression, and disregard for international norms. If you’d like me to dive deeper into any specific event or provide more context, let me know!
I have, but I don't know what you have read or what you believe to be true. There is a lot of info out there about Putin and Russia. I am not an expert on Putin, Im sure I could learn a lot from some of the people on here about Russian history and Putin. But I also know a lot and I'm sure I know things that some of you dont.
None of this stuff is black and white. There is nuance to all of it. Dems on here are certain they know why Putin invaded Ukraine, but then they disregard the reasons Putin gave for invading Ukraine. This proves to me that they don't really know anything. Putin and Trump are very similar in they they give pieces of truth in every conversation they have, but 10-50% is hyperbole. The challenge is figuring out what is true and what is hyperbole.
I like to hear how other people come to believe what they do.
That post is a test. I want to hear what you have to say. If you give an educated response then you pass the test. You failed the test.
Wait. I am confused. Are you saying the Biden administration committed all of these resources to Ukraine for mineral rights? And now that Trump is in office, we now no longer care about the mineral rights?
I'm sure none of us on this message board are Putin "experts" -- but most of us, I would have assumed, had a basic understanding of why he might be considered such a problematic "leader." (there is always a chance someone just didn't pay attention to that sort of thing, so...)
Here's a nice summary for you:
Trump makes a deal with Russia
The people supporting Trump and Putin are true traitors to the USA, they are not patriots, they are traitors. They do not follow the rule of law, they just like their rah rah Felon Trump. Those people should study history, and all of you should ashamed of yourselves. You’re not true...
iowa.forums.rivals.com
My claim is pretty straight forward:
Putin, where malevolent behavior is concerned, is easily recognized as more problematic than any leader/state in Western Europe over the past 25 years, any US president in the past 25 years, and Vladimir Zelensky. By many magnitudes.
Both in aggregate and sum the level of malevolent behavior produced by Putin would very clearly be much much larger.
From this it flows who the US might feel closer to where shared values and allyship are concerned.
This isn't difficult.
You were right. I appreciate differing opinions if they can back it up with reason. Most people dont have solid reason on here. they only know name calling.
I have learned to enjoy some of the idiots on here. I also appreciate the good posters.
Keep up the good work my friend.
