Trump's Defense

[Hawk_4shur]

Help me out here GIAOT lawyers.

One of Trump's weak defenses in the DC and GA trials is that he absolutely believed the election was stolen from him.

Question - why does that matter? Is it ok to commit crimes as long as you believe in your heart that what you are doing is fair?

If I am absolutely convinced that the bank made an error on my account but the bank disagrees and won't fix it - is it ok to rob the bank? If I am absolutely convinced that a store short-changed me on a purchase, is it ok to shoplift on the way out as a way to get my money back?

Thoughts?

 

[OrlandNole]

If I absolutely believe someone cut me off in traffic, I am justified in murdering them.

Seems reasonable to me.

 

[mustang_hawk]

Help me out here GIAOT lawyers.

One of Trump's weak defenses in the DC and GA trials is that he absolutely believed the election was stolen from him.

Question - why does that matter? Is it ok to commit crimes as long as you believe in your heart that what you are doing is fair?

If I am absolutely convinced that the bank made an error on my account but the bank disagrees and won't fix it - is it ok to rob the bank? If I am absolutely convinced that a store short-changed me on a purchase, is it ok to shoplift on the way out as a way to get my money back?

Thoughts?

I honestly believed that the sheep in question was stuck in the fence.

 

[onlyTheObvious]

What exactly is the evidence against him?
I assume some juicy stuff will come out during the trail.

“Find me 12,000 votes” or whatever the number isn’t exactly like saying “invent votes if there are not enough actual votes”.

Will be interesting to see evidence and defense in a true legal setting vs the hype chamber of 24/7/365 news.

I am sure the election was as accurate as any. I am also sure Trump thinks he actually won.

 

[KFsdisciple]

You and Dawson, you both live in the same dreamworld. It doesn't matter what I believe. It only matters what I can prove. So don't tell me what I know, or don't know. I know the LAW.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

You and Dawson, you both live in the same dreamworld. It doesn't matter what I believe. It only matters what I can prove. So don't tell me what I know, or don't know. I know the LAW.

Apparently, you can't handle the truth.

 

[Funky Bunch]

What exactly is the evidence against him?
I assume some juicy stuff will come out during the trail.

“Find me 12,000 votes” or whatever the number isn’t exactly like saying “invent votes if there are not enough actual votes”.

Will be interesting to see evidence and defense in a true legal setting vs the hype chamber of 24/7/365 news.

I am sure the election was as accurate as any. I am also sure Trump thinks he actually won.

You think he truly believes he shot a 67 too?

 

[onlyTheObvious]

You think he truly believes he shot a 67 too?

No. That’s a fairly exact thing with no variables that can be altered with assumptions on non witnessed events.

 

[CarolinaHawkeye]

It apparently works on his dimwitted followers and demented disciples. See post #5.

 

[Funky Bunch]

No. That’s a fairly exact thing with no variables that can be altered with assumptions on non witnessed events.

So he lied about it being witnessed by many?

 

[Funky Bunch]

Someone saw this coming

 

[markfromj]

As Elle taught us in Legally Blonde, the alledged perp needs to have exhibited mens rea, a “guilty mind”. (Or at a minimum, such is strong evidence of criminal guilt).

Did Trump display this? For a jury to decide.

 

[markfromj]

. It doesn't matter what I believe. It only matters what I can prove.

This is true in court.

 

[hexumhawk]

Help me out here GIAOT lawyers.

One of Trump's weak defenses in the DC and GA trials is that he absolutely believed the election was stolen from him.

Question - why does that matter? Is it ok to commit crimes as long as you believe in your heart that what you are doing is fair?

If I am absolutely convinced that the bank made an error on my account but the bank disagrees and won't fix it - is it ok to rob the bank? If I am absolutely convinced that a store short-changed me on a purchase, is it ok to shoplift on the way out as a way to get my money back?

Thoughts?

Well...if you believe you are a girl but in fact have male genitals...

 

[Finance85]

Help me out here GIAOT lawyers.

One of Trump's weak defenses in the DC and GA trials is that he absolutely believed the election was stolen from him.

Question - why does that matter? Is it ok to commit crimes as long as you believe in your heart that what you are doing is fair?

If I am absolutely convinced that the bank made an error on my account but the bank disagrees and won't fix it - is it ok to rob the bank? If I am absolutely convinced that a store short-changed me on a purchase, is it ok to shoplift on the way out as a way to get my money back?

Thoughts?

It's the only defense they have, and it muddies the water between legal and illegal actions.

The events around the Capital have nothing to do with a belief the election was stolen. Inciting a riot isn't free speech.

Challenging election results in Georgia is done in court, not by calling up election officials demanding they find votes, and trying to seat fake electors. Trump can believe whatever he wants, but he crossed many lines.

Bottom line is he deserved to be charged in 3 of the 4 cases, and needs to go to prison.

 

[onlyTheObvious]

So he lied about it being witnessed by many?

What’s the point of you worrying about his golf score? He isn’t going to trial for that, you think the prosecution is going to use it against him in court?

I sure as hell hope they got more than that on him.

If they have a record of trump being told “all the votes have been counted and you lost” and trump said, “then make some up”. That would be a slam dunk. Asking for officials to “look for votes” is likely a gray area when it comes to the law.

 

[sabula]

Lying Donnie Sexual Abuser doesn't believe he won the election, that he shot a 67, or that he weighs 215 lb. But he has to keep publically stating those positions to try to keep propping up his fragile ego and keep feeding meat to the rubes that buy it. And he knows there are rubes out there in the cult that will believe anything. He knows his audience, and is so ego fragile that he won't acknowledge when someone states the truth if it makes him look bad, or shines light on his lie.

 

[Funky Bunch]

What’s the point of you worrying about his golf score? He isn’t going to trial for that, you think the prosecution is going to use it against him in court?

I sure as hell hope they got more than that on him.

If they have a record of trump being told “all the votes have been counted and you lost” and “trump said, then make some up”. That would be a slam dunk. Asking for officials to “look for votes” is likely a gray area when it comes to the law.

It's not about his golf score. It's more about how you believe the lying fool. Everything he says is a lie, but apparently you choose to accept that he believes he won.

 

[Funky Bunch]

Oh and then there's this

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

Given the OVERWHELMING evidence that fraud did not alter the outcome of the election, the only way an “I don’t believe” defense is possible would be to argue mental incompetence/illness. To me that is a legitimate defense. Of course it would remand Trump to a mental institution and be exhibit A in him being unfit for the presidency. Still, I think you could convince the jury he is certifiably insane.

I say go for it team Trump. I 100% support declaring him not guilty by reason of insanity.

 

[sabula]

Given the OVERWHELMING evidence that fraud did not alter the outcome of the election, the only way an “I don’t believe” defense is possible would be to argue mental incompetence/illness. To me that is a legitimate defense. Of course it would remand Trump to a mental institution and be exhibit A in him being unfit for the presidency. Still, I think you could convince the jury he is certifiably insane.

I say go for it team Trump. I 100% support declaring him not guilty by reason of insanity.

This guy wants to be president, and he can't even spell the word rumor. I see he spelled it r o o m e r in a recent tweet. He needs the guy that took his exam to get into college to do his tweet spelling for him.

 

[onlyTheObvious]

It's not about his golf score. It's more about how you believe the lying fool. Everything he says is a lie, but apparently you choose to accept that he believes he won.

Doesn’t matter what I think he thinks.

Not sure it matters what he thinks.

Criminal acts are criminal acts. If he coerced people into attempting to make up votes or cancel votes he is going down.

I really don’t care about his mood or mental shortcomings.

 

[sober_teacher]

Given the OVERWHELMING evidence that fraud did not alter the outcome of the election, the only way an “I don’t believe” defense is possible would be to argue mental incompetence/illness. To me that is a legitimate defense. Of course it would remand Trump to a mental institution and be exhibit A in him being unfit for the presidency. Still, I think you could convince the jury he is certifiably insane.

I say go for it team Trump. I 100% support declaring him not guilty by reason of insanity.

If I’ve understood pundits correctly, the trick with either this defense or that he was acting on advice of counsel is that he would very likely have to testify. And especially with a guy like trump, you wouldn’t want to see him cross-examined given his inability to stick to a script.

 

[MitchLL]

This guy wants to be president, and he can't even spell the word rumor. I see he spelled it r o o m e r in a recent tweet. He needs the guy that took his exam to get into college to do his tweet spelling for him.

While you're at it, have that guy tutor Iowa's senior Senator as well.

 

[bunsen82]

What exactly is the evidence against him?
I assume some juicy stuff will come out during the trail.

“Find me 12,000 votes” or whatever the number isn’t exactly like saying “invent votes if there are not enough actual votes”.

Will be interesting to see evidence and defense in a true legal setting vs the hype chamber of 24/7/365 news.

I am sure the election was as accurate as any. I am also sure Trump thinks he actually won.

If it it was just the call, thats one thing, the problem he has is him and his lawyers tried to create a sham electoral college votes. There is emails, calls, and soon to be other defendants crawling over themselves to implicate Trump. That is forgetting everything he did on Jan 6th. He is screwed unless, Georgia removes the prosecutor . . . which is just sad as hell. Republicans rather than let something go through the courts to validate this issue, is willing to try to let this guy off.

 

[SL Hawk Fan]

As Elle taught us in Legally Blonde, the alledged perp needs to have exhibited mens rea, a “guilty mind”. (Or at a minimum, such is strong evidence of criminal guilt).

Did Trump display this? For a jury to decide.

I think one of the most damaging statements from Trump is when he (allegedly) told one of his co-conspirators, “your problem is that you're too honest” - that would seem to indicate a “guilty mind” and show that he knew his election fraud claims were bogus.

 

[sabula]

I think one of the most damaging statements from Trump is when he (allegedly) told one of his co-conspirators, “your problem is that you're too honest” - that would seem to indicate a “guilty mind” and show that he knew his election fraud claims were bogus.

He certainly knew, knows, his election fraud claims were, are bogus. Sociopathically fragile ego. Plain and simple.

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

What exactly is the evidence against him?
I assume some juicy stuff will come out during the trail.

“Find me 12,000 votes” or whatever the number isn’t exactly like saying “invent votes if there are not enough actual votes”.

Will be interesting to see evidence and defense in a true legal setting vs the hype chamber of 24/7/365 news.

I am sure the election was as accurate as any. I am also sure Trump thinks he actually won.

He never asked anyone to find him votes.

 

[Gimmered]

Help me out here GIAOT lawyers.

One of Trump's weak defenses in the DC and GA trials is that he absolutely believed the election was stolen from him.

Question - why does that matter? Is it ok to commit crimes as long as you believe in your heart that what you are doing is fair?

If I am absolutely convinced that the bank made an error on my account but the bank disagrees and won't fix it - is it ok to rob the bank? If I am absolutely convinced that a store short-changed me on a purchase, is it ok to shoplift on the way out as a way to get my money back?

Thoughts?

If he can convince them he believed it, it could then fall under Presidential immunity. They could be convinced he was obligated to protect the election.