This is turning into an even sadder story than I realized. This is a long article with lots of details and quotes from his family that explain what happened.
http://nyti.ms/1OXeVC7
http://nyti.ms/1OXeVC7
Tyler Sash found to have CTE
- Thread starter Mountain Man Hawk
- Start date
Need to shows results of some guys who played but they don't think they had CTE. These are cases with known effects of it. Not every former player has it and I would guess a majority won't. Could there be a common factor (something else) that makes some people more prone to it. Any studies on other sports? It needs to be expanded.
I have two sons and I never used to have those thoughts but reading through the article it definitely makes you think. It was hard to read the quotes from his mom about how even before he died she was hoping to just someday "get her son back".
My son played up until high school. Had a concussion from a game in the eighth grade. Was mentally out of it for hours after. After that incident I made him quit. He was devastated and pissed at me for months. After hearing about all those that suffered from CTE, I know it was the right thing to do.
BirdistheWord
HB Legend
CTE,can only be diagnosed posthumously and the brain has to be analyzed/tested. Of those brains that have been analyzed, CTE has been found in dozens of former NFL players.
What about all of the players who have died where their brain was not analyzed/tested for CTE? That is the scary part. You do not know if you have CTE UNTIL you are dead AND if your brain gets sent for testing.
What about all of the players who have died where their brain was not analyzed/tested for CTE? That is the scary part. You do not know if you have CTE UNTIL you are dead AND if your brain gets sent for testing.
Wasn't there also drugs involved in Tyler's tragic early death?
Sorry, just pointing out that there were certainly a lot of factors, here.
And no, my Mom didn't make me not play football, as some Mom's do.
Sure glad that she let me play the game.
Sorry, just pointing out that there were certainly a lot of factors, here.
And no, my Mom didn't make me not play football, as some Mom's do.
Sure glad that she let me play the game.
Yeah. He was on pain killers for his shoulders, which reading the article appear to have been really bad. The article makes it seem that the litany of problems with his brain and body from football, ultimately led to him accidentally mixing pain killers that cannot be taken together.
Sad story altogether. Sounds like he was just a totally different person after coming home. How much of that is attributable to the CTE vs pain killers vs just being influenced from an NFL lifestyle is debatable I suppose.
Actually I think the estimate is that most players will have at least some grade of CTE. In this article (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/a...-nfl-players-test-positive-for-brain-disease/) it was reported that 87 of 91 former NFL players tested positive for CTE.
With that said, this is a biased sample because most of those tested were already suspected of having the disease. I believe in the final credits of the movie Concussion, it was estimated that 3 in 4 players will have some trace of the disease.
As you note, this disease does expand to more sports than just football. Any repeated brain trauma is a contributing factor to the disease, but it's hard to deny the fact that football causes much more brain trauma than other sports like baseball or basketball.
There needs to be a control though. I admittedly haven't delved deep into the studies, but I haven't seen anything regarding the incidence of CTE in the general population. I'd be interested to see how it compares
When I was in school there was no fb before HS, even Jr. or Middle school, at least in my district . I wonder about all these youth fb programs. One good thing about them, though, is that there are weight divisions. I think there should be a comprehensive study of CTE, not just about fb, but other sports and activities. How can they be made safer, such as eliminating headers in soccer? The article mentioned it wasn't just concussions, but the repetitive hits. There have been many fb players who have been in positions requiring leadership and judgment, including not only coaches but military leaders and ceos, etc. So, let's have a study of those types of former players, those who were failures in life as well as those who were just the average joes making a normal living. How did their fb experiences differ?.
I recall seeing a "E:60" sort of story on ESPN about a soccer player from I think the Phoenix area who played college and low-pro level soccer. He developed, and eventually died from, ALS. They discussed during the story about the research behind soccer and all of the trauma caused by 'headers' in the game and wondered if CTE played into it. There was a follow up not too long ago that after having donated his brain, he did indeed have CTE. Granted this is just one we've heard of in soccer, but I know many have called for no headers in lower-aged soccer levels.
My nephews soccer team cannot head the ball anymore. Their coach was told by their league that they will not allow it anymore until age 13 (i might be off not the age). But regardless they cannot head the ball anymore.
I couldn't believe TS had 5 concussions. I remember growing up we had a kid who was 2 years older than me. His uncle was some BIG time surgeon and talked to all the parents in our school about concussions and head trauma in sports. Kind of an odd part of the story, this surgeons nephew got 3 concussions (1 in JH, 2 in HS) and after the 3rd one his parents made him quit. He was a good baseball/football/basketball player. I know the kid was upset and actually would try and play, but his dad would come to school everyday and pick him up. Apparently his uncle had read or heard that 3 is the limit before "brain damage" starts to set in. So that's why they pulled him out. I still see the kid around town and he now is thankful his parents made that decision for him. He would of kept playing regardless the # of concussions.
Like I and someone else said, there needs to be expanded testing and a control group. Wish more former players families would step up and donate when a player wasn't suspected to have it. Also, it would help if players tackled correctly and not lead with their head or use the crown of the helmet as a weapon. What about players who only play through high school or college? What's the rate for them? A lot more studies need to be done and a lot more teaching of correct tackling done before dismissing the game altogether.
Until science permits us to diagnose CTE in living persons, I'm afraid we aren't ever going to fully grasp CTE. The sample size is very small and very biased at this point. Whether genetic, biological, or lifestyle factors may also independently cause or contribute to CTE is still unknown. That said, I have no doubt that football and the head contact that is part of the game, can cause brain changes in its participants.
Albuquerque. Played for the Albuquerque Sol and was once on the Chicago Fire Reserves squad of the PDL (same league as the Des Moines Menace). I followed this same story. They have a headband that softens the blow on headers, but after some high profile players used it a few years ago, they began to disappear for some reason.
Thanks for cleaning up my details. It was a well-done piece about a very sad story.
When does the lawsuit come at college football? Just like the nfl. There will be a lawsuit. This is just like any work related injury. The NCAA better be prepared for it. With today's technology every helmet should have sensors installed. I also believe there should be a weight limit on players just like wrestling. This will force contact sports out of college and high school someday. Sports will be club sports because of liability.
And this right here is why the term student athlete was invented by the NCAA all those many years ago. To avoid work related injury liability. I hope there is a lawsuit and it crushes the NCAA. There to protect student athletes? Right. Don't settle the lawsuit and watch the NCAA be exposed the same way Fifa has been exposed. Criminals
As a former college athlete and someone that was offered a contract to play low level pro ball I have changed my thinking entirely as I have gotten older. Sports do not belong in schools. Schools should be focused on lifetime fitness and activity not shiny trophies that mean nothing anyway. Club sports can fill the void for the very few kids that truly want to go that route. There can also be recreational leagues for team sports. Disgusts me now to see the amount of money that local school districts spend on athletics and the amount of attention they give to these things.
As a former college athlete and someone that was offered a contract to play low level pro ball I have changed my thinking entirely as I have gotten older. Sports do not belong in schools. Schools should be focused on lifetime fitness and activity not shiny trophies that mean nothing anyway. Club sports can fill the void for the very few kids that truly want to go that route. There can also be recreational leagues for team sports. Disgusts me now to see the amount of money that local school districts spend on athletics and the amount of attention they give to these things.
Douglas C. Neidermeyer
HB Legend
But, I don't see club sports as being all that safe. And who's going to pay for the poorer kids who want to belong? It's true, the US developed sports along the HS lines, whereas other countries developed them along club lines. Now the US has a combination, and some of the club associations have a sleeze factor.
one of the happiest days of my life is when son said he was giving up football for soccer.
As the thread reflects, most educated parents seem to be encouraging their boys not to play football. It is a fun game to watch, but it really isn't a wise move to play the game. I think that has an impact on attendance as the distance from the game increases. HDTV, poor stadium cell coverage/internet connection, etc. have also had an impact, but this overall issue with the game is part of it.
On the other hand (and to keep it Iowa-centric), I've been back to places like Cedar Rapids/Marion and seen huge fields converted to soccer facilities with maybe 10 games going on at once. Soccer is passing football as a participant sport and may eventually pass it in terms of spectator sport as well as the slow drip of CTE and other issues inherent in the game (not a "rule" that can be developed, but by the very nature of the game...i.e., hitting heads together) comes to light.
On the other hand (and to keep it Iowa-centric), I've been back to places like Cedar Rapids/Marion and seen huge fields converted to soccer facilities with maybe 10 games going on at once. Soccer is passing football as a participant sport and may eventually pass it in terms of spectator sport as well as the slow drip of CTE and other issues inherent in the game (not a "rule" that can be developed, but by the very nature of the game...i.e., hitting heads together) comes to light.
The use of pain killers not just for sports but in our society is being overlooked. We want to point at one thing as the source of all issues but it's probably not that simple. The 60 minutes piece this past Sunday talked about how many affluent kids and adults had become addicted to heroine with a number dying of an overdose. The root of many of those addictions was pain killers.
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Football is a rough game and regardless my kids will play it. I realize there is "injuries" involved and when it comes to head injuries you can't be too careful. I will allow them to play, but if they get a concussion, then their time is limited. If they get 2 or 3 then they will be done. I will not allow them to play the sport, if they are constantly getting head trauma from it.
The game taught me so much about life and I still think its a great game for kids to play. But there has to be rules/guidelines in place. I know at the HS level they take concussions very serious and sometimes keep kids out 1-2 weeks. I am thinking maybe they just need to max it out (3 concussions) and your career is over. I realize that would hurt and annoy people, but I could of swore I have heard from multiple people that 1-2 concussions is not bad, its when you get to the 3+ that it starts to affect your brains functioning?? IDK has anyone else ever heard of that?
The game taught me so much about life and I still think its a great game for kids to play. But there has to be rules/guidelines in place. I know at the HS level they take concussions very serious and sometimes keep kids out 1-2 weeks. I am thinking maybe they just need to max it out (3 concussions) and your career is over. I realize that would hurt and annoy people, but I could of swore I have heard from multiple people that 1-2 concussions is not bad, its when you get to the 3+ that it starts to affect your brains functioning?? IDK has anyone else ever heard of that?
The schools have just as big a sleaze factor as the clubs and they do it at the expense of the taxpayer while elevating a small subset of students over other students.
What will poor kids do? They will play in recreational leagues or they will play in the sand lot the same way they do now. As it stands the poor kids don't get access anyway now unless they are incredibly athletic because they can't afford the time or finances to home skills that the rich kids get through club sports. It is a farce. It would actually be better for the poor kids to see a real path out of poverty anyway that is achievable and doesn't spend upon a rare set of physical and mental athletic attributes. No you are not going to be In the nba it NFL. You aren't even going to be in college let alone playing for the Hawkeyes.
It has become a disgusting mess and it needs to change
What will poor kids do? They will play in recreational leagues or they will play in the sand lot the same way they do now. As it stands the poor kids don't get access anyway now unless they are incredibly athletic because they can't afford the time or finances to home skills that the rich kids get through club sports. It is a farce. It would actually be better for the poor kids to see a real path out of poverty anyway that is achievable and doesn't spend upon a rare set of physical and mental athletic attributes. No you are not going to be In the nba it NFL. You aren't even going to be in college let alone playing for the Hawkeyes.
It has become a disgusting mess and it needs to change
I hear what you're saying, but the research is pointing to all of the smaller hits (ie regular contact) as significantly contributing as well. It probably has something to do with each person's unique make up too.
It's a complicated problem, and I think we are just on the tip of the iceberg in terms of understanding it.
The problem is that "concussion" is a not a cut-and-dry diagnosis. There also is not a cut-and-dry determination for when a concussion is healed. Some researchers also theorize that repeated sub-concussive blows can cause problems, even if concussion symptoms never show. Medicine is advanced, but these are complicated issues dealing with brains.
For now, I think the game should continue. Lots of people have played high school, college, and NFL football and are fine. But hopefully the word is getting out and players and their parents understand that their is some risk of permanent brain injury for playing the sport.
It will be interesting to see how newer parents (with kids who under the age of first participation) start handling participation in football. I do think we will see a drop in junior high and elementary age participation.
There needs to be major investment in developing a diagnostic process for CTE. Additionally, I think a lot of research is still needed. We don't know what factors into CTE. I'm sure there are people in the general population that have never played a sport, that are predisposed to CTE and may be exhibiting symptoms.
Until we know how to diagnose CTE in a living brain, and the true risk factors (and increased incidence in football players), it is difficult to say where the direction of the game is headed. Common sense tells you that football is bad for your brain. Science/research needs to tell us how bad it truly is.
What??!!!!!???
Playing a violent sport can have damaging affects to your body? Only a genius could've uncovered that mystery.
Look, this is the same debate society has had over cigarettes. You can smoke them and risk cancer or you can choose not to. Anyone see the Movie Rush? You can be a race-car driver and risk it all or you can choose not to. Millions of life-choices involved an element of risk. God I hate Ralph Nader. Unsafe at any speed . Later the book was proved false regarding the Corvair. It wasn't any less safe than other cars of the period. But it didn't matter. He had accomplished his goal, which was to convince society you can remove risk from existence. It's sad that only a tiny minority of Americans understand that FREEDOM means risk-taking. And it's up to the individual to decide for him/herself how much risk they choose to take. Wasn't their a Hawkeye who just signed a 43 million dollar NFL contract. The nanny-state jerks would remove that choice because they would outlaw football.
Playing a violent sport can have damaging affects to your body? Only a genius could've uncovered that mystery.
Look, this is the same debate society has had over cigarettes. You can smoke them and risk cancer or you can choose not to. Anyone see the Movie Rush? You can be a race-car driver and risk it all or you can choose not to. Millions of life-choices involved an element of risk. God I hate Ralph Nader. Unsafe at any speed . Later the book was proved false regarding the Corvair. It wasn't any less safe than other cars of the period. But it didn't matter. He had accomplished his goal, which was to convince society you can remove risk from existence. It's sad that only a tiny minority of Americans understand that FREEDOM means risk-taking. And it's up to the individual to decide for him/herself how much risk they choose to take. Wasn't their a Hawkeye who just signed a 43 million dollar NFL contract. The nanny-state jerks would remove that choice because they would outlaw football.
I wonder if football players are more/less/equally susceptible to CTE than other athletes such as hockey, boxing, UFC, rugby, baseball, football, etc. I wonder when they could officially be diagnosed with CTE-- I don't think until they die, but when in their life does it go from no sign to sign? Peewee? High School? Could they have it if say they fell out of a crib? Right now everyone seems to be pointing their finger at the NFL, but I'm not sure that's fair.
On a side note-- every person in the past 30-50 years knows that getting bashed in the head repeatedly is not healthy.
On a side note-- every person in the past 30-50 years knows that getting bashed in the head repeatedly is not healthy.
Yes everyone knows violence causes damage. Why exactly should taxpayers take on the cost of that violence and the liability though? Seems like a tremendously selfish thing to set as an ongoing expectation. There are all kinds of ways to build out competition and team work that doesn't involve abusing children for your entertainment and sense of toughness.
Typical strawman reply. This is about adult choice. No one is saying kids should be forced to do anything. And I'm pretty sure they aren't being forced. If a parent is guilty of that, then I'll let you be Hillary's Parent Czar and throw them in jail. As far as taxpayer money goes, I thought we solved that issue when we commandeered 1/6th of the economy to guarantee that everyone gets fair healthcare.
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Man alive, settle down a bit.
Reasonable people welcome additional information / studies so they can make informed decisions...not only about what they choose to do from a risk / reward standpoint, but also (& more importantly) what they allow their kids to do. News flash, young kids don't get to decide everything they get to do for reasons I shouldn't have to explain to you. As a parent, I would prefer to have as much information as possible before letting my young kids do things...that's my responsibility.
What if, for example, science could figure out that certain kids are more susceptible to CTE? Would that influence my decision for my young kids? You bet your life it would.
What if, for example, science could figure out that certain adults are more susceptible to CTE? Would that influence my decision to play in the CFL? The NFL? You bet your life it would. If I knew it more than likely I would get CTE by playing in the NFL & lose virtually all my mental capacity by age 27, I would say you can keep your $43 million. It's all about risk / reward...why not learn as much about the risks as we can?
Again, strawman. No one said we should stop engaging in science. My wife and I settled down in a nice town and are happy. Thanks for your concern as to how settled I am.
There is a very successful HS program in eastern Iowa whose kids were/are known to share Oxy and Hydro with each other during the week to get through practices to be able to play on Fridays. Not saying the coaches know about it, but one of those deals where it would almost take a purposeful blind-eye not to.
