I’ve watched a ton of women’s basketball over the years and I can honestly say the officials in most games are “in over their heads”.
Uncalled travels on OSU
- Thread starter BrewHawk
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THIS! I see our girls do this too. The proper way to do it, is to set your feet while the ball is in the air, but there is a TON of doing a small hop right after catching, then shooting. Pretty clear, if you watch for it.
Back to the topic at hand. 32 was allowed to run over Hannah a couple of times. The one was so blatantly obvious, yet a foul was called on HANNAH! Guess she shouldn't have been standing with her feet set so well.
That is not a travel. Lifts the heal. She does not drag her toe or lift her foot off the floor completely before she passes the ball.
The drive to the basket is the play in question, not the stuff out top. 18:25 to be exact.
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Three second count suspended when the player in the lane is making an offensive move to the bucket with the ball.
I'm old school like you. Used to be the only way you could lift your pivot foot would be if the other foot came up simultaneously as in jumping off two feet. That's what Kevin McHale did with his famous up-and-under if I'm not mistaken.
It's very close because she jump-stops on two feet rather than establishing a pivot foot upon stopping, but because of the speed it can be hard for many officials to really catch the timing of her steps.
That's why the ensuing step through with her left and then push off with her right looks so awkward, though.
That was probably the most argued one in the video.
It all depends on the crews' interpretation of the NFHS rules regarding where the dribble ends, which is key in determining traveling after a two-foot jump-stop (as opposed to a one-two step jump-stop)
I also noticed at least 3-4 obvious travels. A couple they even showed the replay and it was clearly travelling. There is a clear issue going on with officiating in major sports. It does affect the outcome of who wins or loses. Sometimes I wonder if gambling is involved . That sounds so over-drama but when you consider the money involved it does seem possible.
Interesting. So you're not an official? This play you show at the 18min mark is perfectly LEGAL. The dribble ended in the air. landed simultaneously established pivot then stepped through. I think before you comment you need to understand the interpretation of the rule because clearly you do not.
partially correct, ANY movement into or attempt to get out short of receiving the ball is not part of a count
CC by rule travels on 9 of 10 of her step backs. A stepback is a backwards jumpstop that requires the dribble ending in the AIR and a simultaneous landing which would then allow for a pivot. If the dribble ends with pivot foot on the ground(most common and what CC does nearly everytime) then you must land simultaneously which she does not. The NCAAm and NCAAw did not change the rule but the interpretation 2 yrs ago saying if the land "is close" we let it go. I also watched the game and the game highlights. The post player for OSU was legal 99% of her moves. As officials we are refereeing the defender on our PCA(primary coverage area). If there's a travel it will come from another official and it must be extremely clear and with 100% certainty that a travel occurred. Most of you on here are watching replay in slow motion have no idea whether a dribble ended in the air or on the floor. We get 1 shot at it live at game speed. Bottom line in this game? piss poor Coaching on the part of the Iowa staff for not making defensive help adjustments as the post player for OSU had her way being bigger and more physical at the basket and CC jacking the ball from another area code and making passes/turnovers at inopportune times when we're up with a chance to put the game away. There are many ingredients that led to this collapse and officiating was not one of them.
close to correct. each of these dribble endings are to be judged as where the dribble ended. Was it in the air or with pivot foot on the ground? If it ends in the air(think catching a pass off the floor) and you land on 1 foot that will be your pivot. If you land on 2 at the same time you may then reestablish a pivot. This particular play if it's the one I believe you are referring to? has her ending the dribble in the AIR then landing(pivot) then stepping through correctly/legally. And to your point YES these are extremely difficult to pickup live/realtime so it must be a completely OBVIOUS to put air in the whistle. It's great to try and review replay in slow motion to make that determination but we don't get that luxury.
I don't know for the life of me how that can be considered legal. She dribbles, then jumps and comes down on two feet holding the ball, then she takes off again making two more steps and jumps for the layup. So you are saying a player can take two steps after establishing a pivot foot?
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Did the NCAA adjust this to say 'if they land at approximately the same time' this last year? I thought I read something about that earlier in the year, but it could have been a few years ago*. (and no apology needed TRE). This is a move that high school girls in Iowa used for decades.
* you answered my question in a previous post.
89% of your post was an exaggeration of facts to make your point.............
Your ability to "see I can do that too" is acknowledged though.
If the left foot stays in contact with the floor which it does this is completely legal. The guy that produced the video is a HS official and I'm a collegiate official. Be careful substituting your opinion for correct interpretation.
The second step is part of the shot, so it wouldn't constitue as traveling.
If she would have stepped through with her right foot, after first stepping with her left, and then into her shot, that would be traveling.
So a player can slide step down the court and it's not travel? As long as the foot stays in contact with the floor?
it was before the beginning of last season. The problem is all these kids watch the NBA. They have a completely different traveling rule which allows for what is known as a "zero" step. Think James Harden. At our level the NCAA rules committee(made up of admin/Coaches with no officials) decided that "close" on landings was acceptable as it was calling what is known to us at "game interrupters". The coordinator of the NCAA puts out bi weekly videos of plays. During that same period of time a couple of years ago, he put out a video where 100 spin moves were slowed down and interpreted. He only found 2 legal. So every spin move is a travel because the pivot foot is lifted then put back down. So we all know it's a part of the basketball lexicon so are we going to rule by letter of the law or let them play?
Normally I'd agree with what you are saying - but she doesn't take the second step in the act of shooting. She does a quick two-step shuffle and then goes up for the shot. She seemed to do that a number of times where she'd shuffle both feet basically at the same time and then take off.
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I'm talking about play #1 in the link that was posted. Go look at it, you'll see what I'm referring to. As long as you stay within contact you may spin or what we call "walking the pivot" foot in a circle. This has never changed in the history of the game.
Fire them and hire new players that don't travel on spin moves.
That's what NIL is for, isn't it?.......
I understand walking the pivot. But that kid lifts/moves both the back of his pivot foot and then the front of his foot. I'm surprised the player is allowed that much movement.
Only if the ref has that team to hit the Over.......
all I can tell you is that is perfectly legal. There is not velcro on their feet and part moving freely is pivoting. If he CLEARLY drags his pivot off that spot, that' obvious. It's not in this particular play
But you would agree the above video of the OSU player (on her move to the shot) is a travel, right?
What's your opinion on the block calls that happened fairly close to one another, first on McMahon(?) and then shortly after, I believe on Stuelke.
I could be wrong on one or both players involved, but that's where I wasn't aware that the restricted area had been removed from the women's game this year.
The one thing Iowa does very poorly in post defense is keeping the arms vertical. They're always bringing them down over the shooter, which takes away the potential of a charge if the shooter is smart enough to go up into those overhanging arms.
is there a accurate time in the game you can pt me to so I can look at it?
He answered that question earlier in the thread. Not a travel
sorry, just saw this. NO this is a legal play. Again, watch when the dribble ends(brings the ball together with both hands) her feet are off the floor. It's the same thing as if she had received a pass in the air. She then lands and now may pivot and step through.
it's not the NFHS it's the NCAA. However, both interpretations are the same. It's not the "crews" interpretation. It's always the same. Again, it's whether in realtime, live you can be 100% sure where the dribble ended if not you don't guess.
Someone mentioned McHale's up and under earlier. His are not travels because he jumps off both feet without lifting the pivot foot first. The two moves are different because she lifts her pivot foot to take another step before shooting (her right foot is the pivot foot).
I don't think you understand. She ended the dribble OFF THE FLOOR so when she lands she can determine what her pivot is going to be. The first step is her pivot and 2nd step she goes airborne. The rule from the NBA down to HS is exactly the same on this play/move. A player catches the ball in the air from a pass. If they land on 1 foot that's their pivot. If they land both feet together they can now establish a pivot as the OSU does in this particular play.
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