VOTE: Is Kirk Ferentz a Hall of Famer?

[Franisdaman]

Update after Iowa's 35-0 loss to Tennessee in the Jan 1, 2024 Citrus Bowl:

One of the stipulations for the College Football Hall of Fame is you have to have won 60% of your games.

Assuming Kirk gets to 60% (which he currently is just below) and stays there, what say you?

Kirk's current record:

...12-21 (36.4%):.............3 years at Maine (1990-92)
196-119 (62.2%):......25 years at Iowa (1999-present)
......................................................
208-140 (59.77%) Overall Record
========================

If Iowa wins its first 2 games of the 2024 season, Kirk is back at exactly 60% (210-140).

Then over the next 11 games (10 reg season + 1 bowl game), Iowa would need to go AT LEAST 7-4, which would put Kirk at 60.11% (217-144).

When Kirk hit win #200 he became the 24th Division I coach to reach that milestone.

 

[HawkMachine]

The question is, what does he have to do to get to 60%.

Might not be easy.

 

[2D_]

Yes. His consistency and quality of teams of the past 25 years is impressive.

-Coaching a runner-up Heisman
-beating the defending national champions coached by Nick Saban
-has won two B1G titles
-teams that crack the top 10 at the end of the season with No. 8 in 2002, 2003, and 2004, No. 7 in 2009, No. 9 in 2015
-multiple coach of the year awards (AP, Eddie Robinson, Walter Camp)
-and the sheer amount of talent that has been sent to the NFL, despite being a program that is not a blue blood.

Despite having issues with nepotism and sticking to an archaic offensive scheme, Kirk is a class act that I'm proud to have as a coach. Keep in mind that Hayden Fry did not meet the 60% requirement, but is still in the HOF.

 

[Franisdaman]

The question is, what does he have to do to get to 60%.

Might not be easy.

If he goes 9-3 the rest of this season:

208-139 (59.9%)

 

[cidhawkeye]

I voted on the other site a couple of hours ago, can I vote again? Or do I need to wait two hours and start a thread on another site?

 

[Hawkeyes4Life247]

If he goes 9-3 the rest of this season:

208-139 (59.9%)

I don’t believe they round up. That was an issue when Leach died last year. Iowa also can’t go 9-3 without declining a bowl bid, so it’s possible he can go 10-3 or 9-4. I broke this down in a thread last spring that asked the same question and the math based on all scenarios showed it was much more likely it will take one more year after this season to have a realistic chance to get to the 60 percent number.

 

[Madman_1]

I don’t believe they round up. That was an issue when Leach died last year. Iowa also can’t go 9-3 without declining a bowl bid, so it’s possible he can go 10-3 or 9-4. I broke this down in a thread last spring that asked the same question and the math based on all scenarios showed it was much more likely it will take one more year after this season to have a realistic chance to get to the 60 percent number.

10-3 this year gets him to 60%

 

[kentadel]

He gets my yes vote only if he could get over 60% and win a conference championship.

 

[Hawkeyes4Life247]

He gets my yes vote only if he could get over 60% and win a conference championship.

I agree. If he can get to 60 I think he’s a sure thing. He’s had an amazingly long career, his teams have won numerous bowl games and achieved individual awards, and he’s been highly respected by his colleagues the entire time. That 60 could prove difficult. The longer you coach, the slower that decimal point grows. I’m just glad they didn’t put the 60 rule into effect until after Hayden made it in.

 

[Hawkeyes4Life247]

10-3 this year gets him to 60%

You could be right. Somehow all the math I did last spring shorted him two wins. Not sure how I did that.

 

[EastIowaHawk]

Yes.

 

[Here_4_a_Day]

One of the stipulations is you have to have won 60% of your games.

Assuming he gets to 60%, what say you?

Note: going 9-3 the rest of this season gets him there.

His record:

...12-21 (36.4%): three years at Maine (1990-92)
187-115 (61.9%): 24-plus years at Iowa (1999-present)
......................................................
199-136 (59.4%) Overall Record
========================


If he goes 9-3 the rest of this season:

208-139 (59.9%)


Whenever win #200 happens, Ferentz will become the 24th Division I coach to reach that milestone.

Has ZERO decent wins in the last five years….that’s insane…….

 

[Franisdaman]

I don’t believe they round up. That was an issue when Leach died last year. Iowa also can’t go 9-3 without declining a bowl bid, so it’s possible he can go 10-3 or 9-4. I broke this down in a thread last spring that asked the same question and the math based on all scenarios showed it was much more likely it will take one more year after this season to have a realistic chance to get to the 60 percent number.

I had them going to a bowl, playing 13 total games.

The Utah State win is included in his current overall record of 199-136 (59.4%).

As I wrote above, if he goes 9-3 the rest of this season (to finish 10-3), his career record is now this:

208-139 (59.9%)

 

[kentadel]

He may have to retire if he gets to 60% this season. He will struggle to stay above it in the new Big.

 

[Hawkeyes4Life247]

I had them going to a bowl, playing 13 total games.

The Utah State win is included in his current overall record of 199-136 (59.4%).

As I wrote above, if he goes 9-3 the rest of this season (to finish 10-3), his career record is now this:

208-139 (59.9%)

But that means he's not at 60. Mike Leach died at 59.6 and was ruled in ineligible. It will take more work for Ferentz to make it if they lose 3 games this year.

I still think we can get to 10-2 or 11-1 plus BTCG and Bowl, so I think we will play enough games this season he could crack 60, but that's also a very optimistic viewpoint.

 

[OutbackBowl2017]

I didn’t vote yes because I don’t think he will be a HoF even though he is one in my view. He has put himself in this situation because of the poor decisions he has made on the offensive side of the ball with coaches that don’t make sense in how he runs his offense…Greg Davis and the current OC are not clothes cut from KoK who did a pretty good job as an OC.

Last year could have been a 10-2 regular season if Iowa had an offense able to score 10 to 13 points with losses to ISU and Illini. Add in losing recruits that don’t want to play in such an anemic offense year in and year out. Those types of losses are going to cost KF the 60% needed to get into the HoF and it’s a shame. He chose this path and will ultimately pay the price if he doesn’t make the offense a priority in the time he has as the head coach at Iowa.

 

[uihawk82]

One of the stipulations is you have to have won 60% of your games.

Assuming he gets to 60%, what say you?

Whenever win #200 happens, Ferentz will become the 24th Division I coach to reach that milestone.

Can the committe that votes for this HOF take a few things under consideration like KF went to Maine to get head coaching experience and Maine was not a powerhouse but did Kirk improve them? And can they minimize Kirk's first two years records at Iowa as a major rebuilding period?

In my mind, I can logic out that Kirk's record overall taking into account the above 2 situations makes him over 60% and he should get in.

 

[hawkjt]

Yes.
If we can get to 10-3 this year and maybe 8-4 next year with a tough schedule that should get him to .600. ..then retire and join Hayden.
These two coaches have established Iowa as a top program over 45 years...thats not nuthing.

 

[hawkjt]

Are there any losses on his record
to teams that had those wins wiped out later due to NCAA violations?

 

[Bulldogs1974]

When you start listing his all americans and trophy winners he may be hard to keep out even at around 59%

 

[F5n5]

the Hawkeyes will be playing 14 games this season (at least)
so you have to figure we need to win 11 games to get over 60%

entering the season
198-136 (334 games) 59.28%

if we go 10-4
208-140 (348 games) 59.77%

if we go 11-3
209-139 (348 games) 60.05%

if we go 15-0
213-136 (349 games) 61.03%

 

[Hawkeyes4Life247]

When you start listing his all americans and trophy winners he may be hard to keep out even at around 59%

Its a hard rule that was put in place a few years ago. Unless they change the rule, which they said they wouldn't for Mike Leach at 59.6, he can't get in under 60.

 

[Madman_1]

I had them going to a bowl, playing 13 total games.

The Utah State win is included in his current overall record of 199-136 (59.4%).

As I wrote above, if he goes 9-3 the rest of this season (to finish 10-3), his career record is now this:

208-139 (59.9%)

What you wrote in post #4 was:

If he goes 9-3 the rest of this season:

208-139 (59.9%)

I added one win to that for a bowl game to bring the total to 209-139 (I did not verify the record you posted), for a final record of 209-139.

I see now that his record would be 208-139 with the bowl game at 10-3.

So, 11-2 (or 15-0) would get him over 60% this year.

 

[littlez]

One of the stipulations is you have to have won 60% of your games.

Assuming he gets to 60%, what say you?

Note: going 9-3 the rest of this season gets him there.

His record:

...12-21 (36.4%): three years at Maine (1990-92)
187-115 (61.9%): 24-plus years at Iowa (1999-present)
......................................................
199-136 (59.4%) Overall Record
========================


If he goes 9-3 the rest of this season:

208-139 (59.9%)


Whenever win #200 happens, Ferentz will become the 24th Division I coach to reach that milestone.

Very good coach. Hall of fame worthy, close but honestly I don't think so. But would be cool if he makes it.

 

[BrotherHawkeye]

Can the committe that votes for this HOF take a few things under consideration like KF went to Maine to get head coaching experience and Maine was not a powerhouse but did Kirk improve them? And can they minimize Kirk's first two years records at Iowa as a major rebuilding period?

In my mind, I can logic out that Kirk's record overall taking into account the above 2 situations makes him over 60% and he should get in.

They should just eliminate those years at Maine. With apologies to all you Black Bear fans out there, it's barely a football program.

 

[Franisdaman]

But that means he's not at 60. Mike Leach died at 59.6 and was ruled in ineligible. It will take more work for Ferentz to make it if they lose 3 games this year.

I still think we can get to 10-2 or 11-1 plus BTCG and Bowl, so I think we will play enough games this season he could crack 60, but that's also a very optimistic viewpoint.

If he were to go 10-2 the rest of this season (to finish 11-2), his career record is now this:

209-138 (60.2%)

 

[UncleChesterton]

I think he's wildly overplaying his hand keeping his kid on despite the boy being an accommodations/affirmative action/nepotism case.

That said, he's HOF material every day.

 

[Hawk-A-Doodle-Doo]

I agree. If he can get to 60 I think he’s a sure thing. He’s had an amazingly long career, his teams have won numerous bowl games and achieved individual awards, and he’s been highly respected by his colleagues the entire time. That 60 could prove difficult. The longer you coach, the slower that decimal point grows. I’m just glad they didn’t put the 60 rule into effect until after Hayden made it in.

Actually, the .600 rule has existed for a long time...definitely was in place at the time of JHF's election in 2003. The very next year, George Welsh (Navy, Virginia) also got in without achieving a lifetime .600+ record. Since then, only two guys (both from HBCUs) have gotten in with sub-.600 records (2010 Willie Jeffries .587 and 2008 Doug Porter .583).

In 2010 Barry Alvarez barely squeaked by with .601. But anyone claiming he wouldn't belong in the HOF had he finished at .599 would've been laughed out of the room. Sometimes the body of work has to take precedence over simple math.

Now, in Hayden's case his act of helping to integrate the old Southwest Conference probably played a major role in the .600 rule not being applied to him. Doodle's not sure Kirk has that watershed moment that would make the committee say, "With this guy the rule is suspended."

Kirk has definitely been a steady, winning coach for a quarter century in one of the premier football conferences in America. His resume impressively includes:

• 4th most wins in Big Ten history (and creeping up on Bo for 3rd place)
• Most bowl wins in Big Ten history (tied for most all time with Joe)
• 5 National Coach of the Year awards
• 4 Big Ten Coach of the Year awards (tied for most all-time with Bo)
• 2 conference titles
• 3 major bowl appearances
• Multiple final top 10 rankings
• 2 Mackey Award winners
• 1 Ozzie Newsome Award winner
• 2 Outland Trophy winners
• 1 Rimington Trophy winner
• 1 Joe Moore Award winner
• 1 Doak Walker Award winner
• 1 Jim Brown Award winner
• 1 Jim Thorpe Award winner
• 2 Jack Tatum Award winners
• 1 Davey O'Brien Award winner
• 1 Butkus Award winner
• 1 Jack Lambert Award winner
• 1 Lott Impact Trophy winner
• 1 Mosi Tatupu Award winner
• 1 Lou Groza Award winner
• 1 AP National Player of the Year
• 29 All Americans (incl. 13 consensus/unanimous)
• Countless All Big Ten selections

But is it "exceptional" enough to get the committee to forego the .600 rule should he fall short? Will the recent controversies surrounding the program play a role in keeping him out, even if he does just get over the .600 hump? Only time will tell.

 

[LaQuintaHawkeye]

I will need at least a conference championship or three more 10-win seasons before I can pull the trigger on a 'yes' vote.

 

[coorsoriginal02]

the Hawkeyes will be playing 14 games this season (at least)
so you have to figure we need to win 11 games to get over 60%

entering the season
198-136 (334 games) 59.28%

if we go 10-4
208-140 (348 games) 59.77%

if we go 11-3
209-139 (348 games) 60.05%

if we go 15-0
213-136 (349 games) 61.03%

Yeah, with the offensive firepower we saw against Utah State, the Hawks are for sure destined to play in the Big Ten Championship game.

 

[WestCoastHawkI]

He's a hall of famer for sure. Consistent consistent consistent

 

[F5n5]

Yeah, with the offensive firepower we saw against Utah State, the Hawks are for sure destined to play in the Big Ten Championship game.

what team do you root for ?

 

[Franisdaman]

Actually, the .600 rule has existed for a long time...definitely was in place at the time of JHF's election in 2003. The very next year, George Welsh (Navy, Virginia) also got in without achieving a lifetime .600+ record. Since then, only two guys (both from HBCUs) have gotten in with sub-.600 records (2010 Willie Jeffries .587 and 2008 Doug Porter .583).

In 2010 Barry Alvarez barely squeaked by with .601. But anyone claiming he wouldn't belong in the HOF had he finished at .599 would've been laughed out of the room. Sometimes the body of work has to take precedence over simple math.

Now, in Hayden's case his act of helping to integrate the old Southwest Conference probably played a major role in the .600 rule not being applied to him. Doodle's not sure Kirk has that watershed moment that would make the committee say, "With this guy the rule is suspended."

Kirk has definitely been a steady, winning coach for a quarter century in one of the premier football conferences in America. His resume impressively includes:

• 4th most wins in Big Ten history (and creeping up on Bo for 3rd place)
• Most bowl wins in Big Ten history (tied for most all time with Joe)
• 5 National Coach of the Year awards
• 4 Big Ten Coach of the Year awards (tied for most all-time with Bo)
• 2 conference titles
• 3 major bowl appearances
• Multiple final top 10 rankings
• 2 Mackey Award winners
• 1 Ozzie Newsome Award winner
• 2 Outland Trophy winners
• 1 Rimington Trophy winner
• 1 Joe Moore Award winner
• 1 Doak Walker Award winner
• 1 Jim Brown Award winner
• 1 Jim Thorpe Award winner
• 2 Jack Tatum Award winners
• 1 Davey O'Brien Award winner
• 1 Butkus Award winner
• 1 Jack Lambert Award winner
• 1 Lott Impact Trophy winner
• 1 Mosi Tatupu Award winner
• 1 Lou Groza Award winner
• 1 AP National Player of the Year
• 29 All Americans (incl. 13 consensus/unanimous)
• Countless All Big Ten selections

But is it "exceptional" enough to get the committee to forego the .600 rule should he fall short? Will the recent controversies surrounding the program play a role in keeping him out, even if he does just get over the .600 hump? Only time will tell.

nice, fair write up.

and it's a reminder of how hard it is to "simply" win 3 games out of every 5.

 

[Franisdaman]

I will need at least a conference championship or three more 10-win seasons before I can pull the trigger on a 'yes' vote.

 

[Herky T Hawk]

Integrating the SWC by Hayden was huge. Without that I'm not sure he ends up on the HoF but he's close because he also came in and broke the stranglehold that OSU and Michigan had on the Big Ten. Kirk has nothing like that on his resume. A lot of individual accolades for players and some great but not elite seasons. However, even if you take out the Maine years and the first two years of the Iowa rebuild he is at 63.3%. That isn't even winning 2 out of 3 games for his career having taken out the "hard" seasons.

Losses to Western Michigan in 2000 and 2007, Central Michigan in 2012, Northern Illinois in 2013, NDSU in 2016, plus several losses to bad ISU, NW, Indiana, Purdue, and Minny teams over the years really bring his resume down. These are all games that he lost to sub-500 teams from that group of regularly played games.
ISU 1999, 2007, 2011, 2012, 2014, 2022
Minnesota 2006, 2010, 2011
Northwestern 1999, 2006
Purdue 2012, 2018, 2020
Indiana 1999, 2000, 2006, 2012


That's 23 losses to teams that he probably shouldn't have lost to. Flip all of those games around and suddenly he's at 222-113 for his entire career. A 66% winning percentage. And a sure fire HoF coach with the rest of his resume.

What he has been is well enough above average to avoid being fired combined with longevity. I'm not sure that says HoF coach though.

 

[Franisdaman]

"Kirk's middle name is first class." -- Dan McCarney

I miss Norm.

 

[uihawk82]

Integrating the SWC by Hayden was huge. Without that I'm not sure he ends up on the HoF but he's close because he also came in and broke the stranglehold that OSU and Michigan had on the Big Ten. Kirk has nothing like that on his resume. A lot of individual accolades for players and some great but not elite seasons. However, even if you take out the Maine years and the first two years of the Iowa rebuild he is at 63.3%. That isn't even winning 2 out of 3 games for his career having taken out the "hard" seasons.

Losses to Western Michigan in 2000 and 2007, Central Michigan in 2012, Northern Illinois in 2013, NDSU in 2016, plus several losses to bad ISU, NW, Indiana, Purdue, and Minny teams over the years really bring his resume down. These are all games that he lost to sub-500 teams from that group of regularly played games.
ISU 1999, 2007, 2011, 2012, 2014, 2022
Minnesota 2006, 2010, 2011
Northwestern 1999, 2006
Purdue 2012, 2018, 2020
Indiana 1999, 2000, 2006, 2012


That's 23 losses to teams that he probably shouldn't have lost to. Flip all of those games around and suddenly he's at 222-113 for his entire career. A 66% winning percentage. And a sure fire HoF coach with the rest of his resume.

What he has been is well enough above average to avoid being fired combined with longevity. I'm not sure that says HoF coach though.

Excellent points about Kirk leading a team that lost to many underdogs that were sort of just plain dogs. That has always been one of my big negatives about Kirk as head coach. Hayden Fry had trouble beating ISU at first as ISU was pretty good but then Hayden started crushing ISU and then ISU had to get better or be laughed out of college football. ISU got better but Hayden kept beating them except at the end of his tenure.

You can logic it out when the hawks lose at Arizona and ASU on the road, or KState when they were really good, but even the 2021 team that was 10-2 in the regular season did not beat a pretty poor jNW team by that much.

 

[Franisdaman]

 

[mlb1399]

He’s done great things at Iowa and is extremely respected among his peers. It’s tough for me to put too much merit in 60% considering he plays in the B10W and we routinely play 1-2 non-conference cream puffs every year.

 

[Etalicus]

Are we a national power house?
Do we consistently win the bigten?
Are we innovative with our play?
Other then his overly long coaching career here at Iowa 200 wins isn't that much.
If anything of late he been holding Iowa back.