We need to start pulling the plugs on the unvaccinated

[UNIowaHawk]

Great call OP-- even if you are too ill or too young to get the vaccine you should just be pushed to the back of the line. The hell with you.

 

[haw-key]

No, Unvaccinated works just fine.

They are not being discriminated against or "targeted", they are making a personal choice.

Yes it is a personal choice. One I disagree with but a choice, sort of, nonetheless.

They are in fact being targeted Joe. The fact you cant see that tells me you're part of the problem. In fact, I know you are now that I think about it.

 

[Joes Place]

Yes it is a personal choice. One I disagree with but a choice, sort of, nonetheless.

It's a choice that, like all other choices, has consequences.
So, you agree that your "comparison" was meritless here. They are not being "discriminated against", they can deal with the consequences of their choices.

 

[Joes Place]

Great call OP-- even if you are too ill or too young to get the vaccine you should just be pushed to the back of the line.

Good Lord you're stupid.

We're referring to people VOLUNTARILY skipping vaccines here.

 

[Joes Place]

There it is! Goalpost moved.

Nope

You bitched about care being withheld. That's quite specifically what the thread is about.

 

[Urohawk]

This reads like bullshit. Provide the link

It's happening all the time. My Kansas City hospital was getting calls from Georgia, Texas, Louisiana looking for people to transfer. The worst was a women who just delivered her baby and had covid. Covid hits pregnant women more aggressively but of course none of them get vaccinated. They were trying to find a place for her to get ECMO. For those that don't know what it is, we pull the blood out of your body so we can run it through a machine to put oxygen in it. We have had several motherless babies as a result.

I 100% believe this story.

 

[UKGrad93]

It is in state registries and your medical insurer file, if you filled out your info when getting vaccinated.

Bring your card, or move to the back of the bus.

The state registries are only as good as the people that input the data. That is what I was trying to tell you earlier. Sometimes, it is not fully updated. As for insurance, I don't see my covid vaccination listed. I got mine through my employee health system. No insurance record created for it. I think I'd have to give permission for my employee health records to be shared with the doctor treating me. That could be a problem in an accident.

The "show me your papers" approach though, that's original.

 

[Joes Place]

The "show me your papers" approach though, that's original.

That's your evidence. Which you can upload to your PCP or take in for them to verify/scan.

 

[Urohawk]

Don’t forget the obese and smokers. Oh and while your at it alcoholics and drug addicts. No room for these people that also suck down the health care system with bad decisions. Not to mention put innocent people in harms way.

You clearly don't understand we let alcoholics go all the time. We don't have enough livers to do transplants.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

It's happening all the time. My Kansas City hospital was getting calls from Georgia, Texas, Louisiana looking for people to transfer. The worst was a women who just delivered her baby and had covid. Covid hits pregnant women more aggressively but of course none of them get vaccinated. They were trying to find a place for her to get ECMO. For those that don't know what it is, we pull the blood out of your body so we can run it through a machine to put oxygen in it. We have had several motherless babies as a result.

I 100% believe this story.

The unvaxxed brother of a good friend (vaxxed) died during the last surge while they were trying to locate a facility with ECMO. It was his only chance at survival and would have significantly increased his chances but there wasn't a facility to be found that had anything available for hundreds of miles. Everybody was swamped.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

That she’s a journalist looking for attention while trying to make money with a go fund me page, and is unwilling to speak with the Today show about her story?

https://www.gofundme.com/f/py974s-please-help-our-dad

View embedded media

So...nothing. Thanks. That's what I thought.

BTW, GoFundMe is the US "equivalent" to the universal health care enjoyed by the citizens of every other industrialized country so best not to denigrate it as an option.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Yes it is a personal choice. One I disagree with but a choice, sort of, nonetheless.

They are in fact being targeted Joe. The fact you cant see that tells me you're part of the problem. In fact, I know you are now that I think about it.

How are they being "targeted"? They're being triaged. They had a simple option...a VERY simple option...available to protect their health. They refused. They go to the end of the line when health care resources are scarce. Simple. As long as there are resources, they get max care. When the stroke victim comes in, the sickest Covid patient gets removed to make room.

 

[your_master5]

​

​

When I got Covid in 2020 and spent weeks in the hospital, it was harrowing. But it was nothing compared to what my family is dealing with now—also as a result of Covid.​

​

This is a Covid horror story in which no one actually gets Covid, and it could still happen to anyone 🧵​

In August my dad was living independently in rural New Mexico, as he has for years, in a beautiful place with a view of the mountains. He got vaxxed against Covid as soon as it was available, wore masks, and was waiting out the pandemic like the rest of us.​

​

Then, he had a fall.​

​

When I called and he admitted that he was in the hospital, he was more annoyed than anything else. He tripped, he hurt his leg, couldn't go home for a week or so. How irritating. How dumb. He blamed himself. He loved me, hoped I was well, he was fine, etc. That was the last call.​

​

What happened was that while in the hospital, my dad caught viral pneumonia that went unnoticed. The whole state was in lockdown, and every hospital ICU was filling up with unvaccinated Covid patients. There weren't enough resources. The governor begged people to get vaxxed.​

​

My dad was not in the ICU, but in a physical rehab unit of the hospital to help him with his leg. They now say they did not know he had pneumonia at that point. He collapsed on the floor in his room and was left there, unnoticed, for six hours.​

​

When they found him he was blue and had an oxygen level of 50. He did not have Covid. He was taken to the ER and put on a ventilator, but they had to put him in *a storage room* because there physically not enough space due to all the unvaccinated Covid cases.​

​

Twenty-four hours later, he was off the vent and his oxygen levels were restored. My siblings, who live closer, flew in. I spoke to him, and he was out of it but okay. Surely he would get treatment now. We thought that was the worst of it. It was not.​

​

It was later explained to me that this hospital decided to *re-intubate my father* due to a lack of hospital resources. They couldn't manage. He could not see a cardiologist or a pulmonologist, they were all busy. They could not run the needed tests. So they kept him on the vent.​

​

In normal circumstances, they simply would have transferred my dad to a larger hospital. There were several close by. It would have been routine. But due to Covid, it was impossible—so impossible, they thought, that they didn't even tell me he needed to be transferred.​

​

A few days later, while I had thought my dad was improving—I kept being reassured by the nurses when I called—I finally called and got an exhausted, angry nurse who said bluntly: "we are tapped out and because of that your father is going to die. Maybe today. I'm sorry."​

​

I demanded to speak to the doctor and he said more or less the same thing. The state was maxed out. My dad needed a cardiac ICU bed, or at least a cardiologist, and there was nothing for him. There was no hope, and no point even trying. Everywhere was full of the unvaccinated.​

​

Now, there have been other stories like ours in the news over the past month or so. There was the father who was turned away from 43 ICUs and sadly passed away. People were being flown across state lines to try to save them, their families in terror, the health systems in chaos.​

​

My dad's doctor said that New Mexico's ICU bed planning was centralized, so there was no point calling NM hospitals, but I could try ICUs in CO, AZ, TX, UT, CA—even though, he said, they had already tried all those. He would try again. I could call. I think he was humoring me.​

​

The doctor said to "send him any leads" so when I called the hospitals, I said I was calling on his behalf. I never said I was his assistant or medical staff, but they talked to me. They were all maxed out. Nothing they could do.​

​

After about five panicked hours of contacting every hospital, every person I could think of, and screaming my helplessness into the maw of the internet to see if anyone, anyone at all could help us, we finally reached a doctor in an ABQ hospital ICU who agreed to admit my dad.​

​

So that was two weeks ago. If he'd gotten to that ICU even hours later, we would have lost him. They had to perform heroic acts to stabilize him. In a week his pneumonia had been brought under control, and he was starting to heal. They talked about a full recovery. However.​

​

By that point my dad had been on a vent for more than ten days, simply because of a lack of access to care. If you're a med professional, you know why this matters. All signs looked good and so they decided to extubate him. At first he tolerated it, and then...he didn't.​

​

Three days later, they had to intubate my dad for the third time. They said that doing this could result in a permanent disability. He could fully recover, but he also might not ever be independent again.​

​

They gave me the option of "making him comfortable" instead, and you know what that means. But I'm my dad's PoA and he'd been clear that he wanted people to fight for him in a circumstance like this, so I said no. I told them to fight and do whatever they could to save him.​

​

To save my dad, they had to perform a tracheostomy for long-term weaning from the ventilator. That means making a hole in his windpipe. "Like Stephen Hawking," someone said. It might be temporary, it might not. They didn't know if it would save him, but so far at least, it has.​

​

I think of my dad before all this happened, still working, living in his own (rented) home, looking out at the mountains, calling his children in California and in France.​

​

The doctors and nurses say that a full recovery and getting off the trache is possible, but will be hard.​

They also say that none of this would have happened if it were not for the fact that so many people remain unvaccinated against Covid. Even in NM, with a decent vaccination rate, the system is overrun.​

​

Please get vaccinated. Wear a mask. You never know how it will affect you.​

Need a national mandate: Unvaxxed? You're last in line for care/prioritization. Anyone in a hospital who is vaccinated has priority, and when they run out of resources/nurses, the unvaxxed can expire quietly on their own.

This is ridiculous.

You fvcking libs are some sick MFers! We need to demand all breakthrough cases get pulled the plug as well. Great ready for a wonderful winter of the vaccinated spreading covid, being hospitalized, and dying.

 

[Tfxchawk]

That she’s a journalist looking for attention while trying to make money with a go fund me page, and is unwilling to speak with the Today show about her story?

https://www.gofundme.com/f/py974s-please-help-our-dad

View embedded media

This is exactly what I saw as well. She is lying in some form. I went through much of her feed and it starts to become daily apparent she is not telling the truth. Especially the part of give me all the attention but how dare the today show contact me. Because the today show is a notorious right wing news show? Or more likely too much attention is going to surface her dishonesty. So much of her story is written to exploit emotion but when you think it through it reads like bullshit. A hospital had an old man laying on the floor of his room in pain for six hours? Really? Anyone really believe that bullshit? If it happened she concludes it is because of Covid .... Such a bullshit story. Zero chance that happened

 

[ghost80]

Set up field hospitals and man them with the guard and military regulars. After the hospitals hit 75% capacity if you are unvaccinated you end up in one of these makeshift hospitals with the best care available.

 

[Joes Place]

You fvcking libs are some sick MFers!

You antivaxxers are some sick MFers

 

[Joes Place]

This is exactly what I saw as well. She is lying in some form. I went through much of her feed and it starts to become daily apparent she is not telling the truth.

Yet, you cannot point out one item that is false.

And her "feed" delineates the progression from weeks ago.

 

[Tfxchawk]

Yet, you cannot point out one item that is false.

And her "feed" delineates the progression from weeks ago.

Well the hospital cannot comment so her story is the only story. It is absolutely false her father was laying on the floor of a hospital room for 6 hours. There is zero chance that occurred.

And since you want proof....what exactly is her proof other than her ability as a writer to exploit emotion that any of her story is accurate?

 

[Joes Place]

Well the hospital cannot comment

Why didn't he get care at that hospital, then?

 

[tarheelbybirth]

You fvcking libs are some sick MFers! We need to demand all breakthrough cases get pulled the plug as well. Great ready for a wonderful winter of the vaccinated spreading covid, being hospitalized, and dying.

 

[haw-key]

It's a choice that, like all other choices, has consequences.
So, you agree that your "comparison" was meritless here. They are not being "discriminated against", they can deal with the consequences of their choices.

No Joe. They deserve the same care Id give anyone. Including a**holes like yourself.

Do I chastise them and ask why they failed to get the vaccine? You bet. But they still get care. Damn good care at that. Even if I disgree with their choices.

What would you say if I thought we should withhold care of those that had botched abortions?

 

[haw-key]

Nope

You bitched about care being withheld. That's quite specifically what the thread is about.

No Joe. You were trying to switch the topic to the tweet away from your OP. Which was prompted by the tweet but not about it.

If you cant have a reasonable discussion, where you don't constantly change the point you are trying to make, I'm done here.

You are, or are not, for withdrawal and/or withholding care of the unvaccinated?

 

[Joes Place]

No Joe. They deserve the same care Id give anyone.

No one is arguing this.

 

[Joes Place]

No Joe. You were trying to switch the topic to the tweet away from your OP.

No, my OP is entirely consistent with what I've posted throughout the thread.

Anti-vaxxers can be last in line for care. That doesn't mean "turning them away", it means prioritizing vaccinated people with emergency/critical conditions, first.

I've said that several times here already, and you apparently cannot figure it out yet.

 

[shank hawk]

Some of you hardline cultists might want to temper your enthusiasm for pulling plugs on the undesirables: probably won’t be too long before a vaccine regimen will require AT LEAST three doses before it is considered adequate.

A midnight heart attack before you’ve gotten your booster might leave hospital security with no choice other than to toss you out back by the dumpsters.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

No Joe. They deserve the same care Id give anyone. Including a**holes like yourself.

Do I chastise them and ask why they failed to get the vaccine? You bet. But they still get care. Damn good care at that. Even if I disgree with their choices.

What would you say if I thought we should withhold care of those that had botched abortions?

And because of that someone who was responsible but had another medical problem dies on the waiting room floor. That person had a family too.

I'm not going to the hospital cause I got COVID, I feel pretty certain of that. But if I got into a car accident or had a random heart attack or something I would like to know that I will be receiving care, not being put behind 100 assholes who were not willing to do the right thing.

I say triage them out. When it's between someone who didn't take a risk and someone who willingly chose to take a risk, the care should go to the person who didn't take any risks.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

No Joe. They deserve the same care Id give anyone. Including a**holes like yourself.

Do I chastise them and ask why they failed to get the vaccine? You bet. But they still get care. Damn good care at that. Even if I disgree with their choices.

What would you say if I thought we should withhold care of those that had botched abortions?

LOL...and another one misses the bus. You have one ECMO...you have two patients that need it immediately. Now you have to choose. What - exactly - are your parameters? Patient A came in the door first?

 

[Joes Place]

Some of you hardline cultists might want to temper your enthusiasm for pulling plugs on the undesirables: probably won’t be too long before a vaccine regimen will require AT LEAST three doses before it is considered adequate.

Odd....I keep getting tetanus boosters every 5 or 10 years.

Should I pretend tetanus "doesn't exist"?

How 'bout hepatitis? I had that regimen years ago, and I think my doc gave me a booster of that a while back, too, because my titers were lower.

Are we "ranking" vaccines on how the viruses they prevent impact vaccine longevity, now?

 

[Hawkeyecurtis81]

You clearly don't understand we let alcoholics go all the time. We don't have enough livers to do transplants.

Lol I completely understand. All I’m saying is if the unvaccinated go to the back of the line so should other groups that don’t take care of their body.

 

[haw-key]

No one is arguing this.

You are certifiably insane. This entire thread, posted by you, argues just that. That we don't give them the same care we'd give the vaccinated. They wait, they go last, on and on.....

When you are getting crushed in any argument you'd be better of just admitting it rather than trying to defend your prior wrongheaded posts by saying you didn't argue what you actually did. Its really quite a thing to behold honestly.

 

[haw-key]

No, my OP is entirely consistent with what I've posted throughout the thread.

Anti-vaxxers can be last in line for care. That doesn't mean "turning them away", it means prioritizing vaccinated people with emergency/critical conditions, first.

I've said that several times here already, and you apparently cannot figure it out yet.

If you are arguing for triage based on illness severity or chance or survival I'd agree.

But it appears you are not. It appears you are arguing that two people, with the exact same severity of illness and medical need, get treated differently based on vaccination status. Correct?

 

[shank hawk]

Odd....I keep getting tetanus boosters every 5 or 10 years.

Should I pretend tetanus "doesn't exist"?

How 'bout hepatitis? I had that regimen years ago, and I think my doc gave me a booster of that a while back, too, because my titers were lower.

Are we "ranking" vaccines on how the viruses they prevent impact vaccine longevity, now?

Someone’s trying too hard.

 

[Tfxchawk]

Why didn't he get care at that hospital, then?

Are you sure he didn't? All we have is her comments. A hospital cannot make comments about someone care and in most cases won't even admit whether someone has even been a patient. They cannot do it.

Someone like this woman gets to exploit that knowing the people that could actually contradict her won't be allowed to day anything

If her father was alone on a hospital floor where he fell while in their care for more than 6 hours as she claims they are well beyond negligent regardless of patient load. There is almost zero chance what she is claiming here occurred. Her story is out there and she drove this attention to herself and her father even going as far as setting up a GoFundMe and yet the today show asking for an interview is invasive according to her. Her story is bullshit and she is now in scramble mode because her lies are going to be exposed

 

[JWolf74]

If you are arguing for triage based on illness severity or chance or survival I'd agree.

But it appears you are not. It appears you are arguing that two people, with the exact same severity of illness and medical need, get treated differently based on vaccination status. Correct?

Personally, we know that if their illness is severe enough they need a ventilator, their chances of surviving are marginal at best. My hospital has done a very good job using heated high flow to prevent intubations.

So if it comes down to an vaccinated person vs unvaccinated patient needing the last bed/ventilator, we should absolutely give it to the vaccinated patient.

I'm not for withdrawing care, but honestly, they're probably going to die anyway. And if that helps save another life, well... Tough choices need made.

Personally, I'm sick of watching unvaccinated people die under our care. It was almost 100% preventable.

 

[trippnschmidt]

Well you’ve proven yourself to be an absolute idiot. This isn’t how it works nor should it be.

Lots of people make choices about there health that are detrimental to their health. Yet we care for those.

In the past you’ve made points that this decision affects others, not getting vaccinated, because it puts others at risk that did the right thing. Fair enough.

But largely the vaccinated are not being hospitalized relative to the unvaccinated. So this choice, in this instance, where you want to withhold care from the unvaccinated directly is withholding care of the individual that chose to be unvaccinated.

This whole idea you have here is so off the rails that now I know your politics is getting in the way of reason.

I’ve said this prior. Then let’s withhold care of
Smokers
Morbidly Obese
Motorcycle riders that don’t wear helmets
People that don’t wear seatbelts
Drug users
Those that have intercourse and fail to practice safe sex
Injuries resulting from ‘hold my beer’ moments.

So just stop you look like a fool.

Lastly, if you’re interested, the issue with full hospitals right now, in my area anyway, is only partly due to excess COVID. There are way more factors at play than that. It’s a convenient scapegoat to be sure, and focuses its if patients from other places it could be, but only a part of the story. Any idea why some medical systems may wanna make sure COVID is the source of the blame?

Please show the free vaccine that can prevent any of the items you've listed here. Thanks!

 

[haw-key]

And because of that someone who was responsible but had another medical problem dies on the waiting room floor. That person had a family too.

I'm not going to the hospital cause I got COVID, I feel pretty certain of that. But if I got into a car accident or had a random heart attack or something I would like to know that I will be receiving care, not being put behind 100 assholes who were not willing to do the right thing.

I say triage them out. When it's between someone who didn't take a risk and someone who willingly chose to take a risk, the care should go to the person who didn't take any risks.

That isn't how our system works nor should it be. I've detailed my thoughts on this in a prior post.

Now, to the crux of the matter, in my area at least, the current struggles that the system is having with bed availability are only in small measure due to COVID patients taking up beds.

It is more than that. It is COVID in general. I am not convinced now that we wouldn't be still having the same number of positive cases that we are if more were vaccinated. Delta is highly contagious and we'd still be seeing a lot of cases no matter. The reason this is important is that multiple things can be true at once.

Our current bed issues are a result of the number of psychiatric patients right now, overdoses etc. taking up beds, nursing staff quitting either from burnout or pay that isnt adequate, and nursing staff being let go due to vaccine mandates. Our hospital bed situation is very complex and cant simply be attributed to COVID even though that may seem a nice place to place blame. And hospitals would prefer that too. It takes the focus of their failures.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

That isn't how our system works nor should it be. I've detailed my thoughts on this in a prior post.

Now, to the crux of the matter, in my area at least, the current struggles that the system is having with bed availability are only in small measure due to COVID patients taking up beds.

It is more than that. It is COVID in general. I am not convinced now that we wouldn't be still having the same number of positive cases that we are if more were vaccinated. Delta is highly contagious and we'd still be seeing a lot of cases no matter. The reason this is important is that multiple things can be true at once.

Our current bed issues are a result of the number of psychiatric patients right now, overdoses etc. taking up beds, nursing staff quitting either from burnout or pay that isnt adequate, and nursing staff being let go due to vaccine mandates. Our hospital bed situation is very complex and cant simply be attributed to COVID even though that may seem a nice place to place blame. And hospitals would prefer that too. It takes the focus of their failures.

Almost every other medical source I'm seeing is saying that it's due to COVID, specifically unvaccinated patients. Because vaccinated patients are far less likely to need hospitalization.

 

[haw-key]

Personally, we know that if their illness is severe enough they need a ventilator, their chances of surviving are marginal at best. My hospital has done a very good job using heated high flow to prevent intubations.

So if it comes down to an vaccinated person vs unvaccinated patient needing the last bed/ventilator, we should absolutely give it to the vaccinated patient.

I'm not for withdrawing care, but honestly, they're probably going to die anyway. And if that helps save another life, well... Tough choices need made.

Personally, I'm sick of watching unvaccinated people die under our care. It was almost 100% preventable.

Oh I agree. But then you are triaging on the basis of predicted outcome. Not purely on the basis of anger towards those that havent been vaccinated. As Joe undoubtedly is.

 

[haw-key]

Please show the free vaccine that can prevent any of the items you've listed here. Thanks!

Not smoking=free
Not doing drugs=free
Not overeating=free
Wearing a helmet=free once you own one
Wearing your seatbelt=free
Wearing a condom=condoms a free any number of places

This is really a poor comparison. Lots of people do thing they shouldnt or fail to do things they should.

 

[haw-key]

Almost every other medical source I'm seeing is saying that it's due to COVID, specifically unvaccinated patients. Because vaccinated patients are far less likely to need hospitalization.

Then you should read more. Start with this article.

Amongst all the good info here about staffing, note the following:

"On Wednesday, UIHC was reporting 862 inpatients overall. As of Tuesday, UIHC had 41 adult COVID-19 inpatients and six pediatric COVID-19 inpatients" That is about 5% of overall admissions due to COVID.

UIHC, amid staffing woes, doubles ‘extra shift’ pay

Given staffing concerns at a University of Iowa hospital facing the confluence of surging patient demand with an overstressed workforce, administrators Wednesday morning announced they will double extra shift premium pay for inpatient nurses and respiratory therapists for the next seven weeks.

www.thegazette.com