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eyesofhawk said:
I think that's a complete load of crap.

Again, you said you aren't ok with the status quo. How so?

A football program should be judged by its record, which I pointed out.

You seem to understand this, and realize that your dissatisfaction with the status quo isn't really justifiable. So your only move has been to devalue Iowa's success, by the competition they've played, which is silly
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It isnt a load of crap, it is true. You’re telling me that the B10 West was a tough division? It definitely wasnt.

Status quo question:
- we hide behind the “Iowa is a developmental program” moniker and I hate it. We “cant get” 5 star recruits cause we are just little ol’ Iowa. BS, we have just as much to offer as any other school. The facilities, fanbase, town, academics, gameday atmosphere, etc are all great. The only real knock against us is weather but even with that, I think it is overblown. Doesnt keep PSU, OSU, Mich, ND or even Boise St from success.
- the offense doesnt have to be this bad but KF was so stubborn that he allowed him and his son to tank it and now it will take some time to dig out of that. At some points it felt like he was intentionally leaving the D to win games just out of spite because of the negative press that him and BF were getting.
- it is true that winning is winning but it doesnt have to be by 1 pt or 9-6. Sometimes he’s so conservative that the margins are so thin and if something goes wrong, it can cost us the game. Doesnt seem to have a killer instinct and I want that in a coach/program. Win by 100, not 1.

That being said, I think KF is a class act and a great human being but like all of us, he has his faults as well and is not above criticism. There are things I wish he would adapt to and he just refuses.

It’ll be interesting to see what direction we go when he retires
 
I would not be in favor of anything but pro style offense. We just need a competent OC and players. I think we have the OC.
 
HWKEYZ23 said:
It isnt a load of crap, it is true. You’re telling me that the B10 West was a tough division? It definitely wasnt.

Status quo question:
- we hide behind the “Iowa is a developmental program” moniker and I hate it. We “cant get” 5 star recruits cause we are just little ol’ Iowa. BS, we have just as much to offer as any other school. The facilities, fanbase, town, academics, gameday atmosphere, etc are all great. The only real knock against us is weather but even with that, I think it is overblown. Doesnt keep PSU, OSU, Mich, ND or even Boise St from success.
- the offense doesnt have to be this bad but KF was so stubborn that he allowed him and his son to tank it and now it will take some time to dig out of that. At some points it felt like he was intentionally leaving the D to win games just out of spite because of the negative press that him and BF were getting.
- it is true that winning is winning but it doesnt have to be by 1 pt or 9-6. Sometimes he’s so conservative that the margins are so thin and if something goes wrong, it can cost us the game. Doesnt seem to have a killer instinct and I want that in a coach/program. Win by 100, not 1.

That being said, I think KF is a class act and a great human being but like all of us, he has his faults as well and is not above criticism. There are things I wish he would adapt to and he just refuses.

It’ll be interesting to see what direction we go when he retires
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I may have misunderstood what you meant when you originally said you weren't ok with the status quo. To me, that means you are overall dissatisfied with the Iowa football program. Is that fair to say?

If so, I don't understand how winning margin trumps winning. That seems to be the only current characteristic of Iowa football you mentioned.

You started by mentioning what seems to be frustration with Iowa fans that are ok with the status quo. I can see why what you mentioned could be frustrating. But it's not related the the status quo of the Iowa football program. And I'm plenty comfortable speaking for those fans by saying the main reason they are ok with the status quo of the Iowa football program is the results.

Other things to react to:
-I never said the West was a tough division. But since you asked, I do believe all schedules to be tough. NOTHING about football is easy, especially winning. A program that's already long been successful gets moved into a new division and continues to be successful. I think to chalk that up to the new division is a huge leap and a disrespectful one, at that. And I don't buy playing in the West as a reason to have overall dissatisfaction with Iowa football. It isn't Iowa's fault to have played those teams. And I guarantee before each season of Iowa playing in the West, you didn't look at the schedule and determine the only way you'd be satisfied with the regular season is if Iowa were to go undefeated through it.
-You mentioned how climate hasn't kept a handful of schools from being successful. Nor has it kept Iowa from being successful.
-You mentioned, the offense "doesn't have to be this bad". I don't know if that means you're calling Iowa's offense "bad", or not. But Iowa's offense was not "bad" this season. And I certainly wouldn't characterize the reasons it was bad the previous two seasons, as you have. And you can't possibly actually believe that KF would make any on-field decisions for the purpose of spiting fans. Just stop.
-And KF most definitely has a killer instinct.

But I was never going to accept any reasons you gave for being dissatisfied overall with Iowa football, anyway. That's because I don't believe there to be justification for such stance. So I'll leave you alone now. Was just curious what your reasoning was
 
grayhair81 said:
Syracuse beat two teams that finished the regular season in the top 25. They beat 10 teams that finished with at least a .500 record.

How does Iowa's record compare with that.

They won 10 games this year. I am not sure if you are aware of that.
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I'd bet a lot of money Iowa would be favored vs Syracuse on a neutral field
 
grayhair81 said:
And a bonus question for Eyes: who was the last team Iowa beat that finished the season ranked in the top 25?
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You don't think some of those teams would have finished in the top 25 had they not picked up a loss vs Iowa?

A bonus question for Gray: what's your point?
 
RagnarLothbrok said:
Penn State finished 7-6.

Hence why I said legitimate.
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They were pretty darn legitimate when Iowa beat them.

You don't think Iowa banging up their QB had any negative effect on their season?

The readiness of fans to devalue winning is disgusting. It's a disrespect to athletes and coaches across sports
 
LukaDuka said:
Iowa had almost all the same players in 2024 as they did in 2023 minus DeJean. And PP emphasis D the same every year. Sometimes teams offenses scheme better. DeJean took away half the field on passing downs. Iowa didn't have that guy this year. That was a big difference. Nothing to do with "emphasizing" defense and more or any less.
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Of course PP always emphasizes the D. Not the point
 
bobchawk said:
how could it impact the D any more than the last 2 yrs of BF offense--we were only running like 30-35 plays agame against good teams meaning the D was on the field a lot--look at the difference in time of possession in a lot of those games.
Just amazing Phil and KF could overcome such bad complementary fball..
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I would take an elite D with zero offense over an above average D with a good offense every time
 
grayhair81 said:
That PSU team finished 7-6. And the offense didn't win that game. They knocked Clifford out of the game and PSU's backup was incapable of doing anything. Taylor kept pinning them inside the 10 yard line and the crowd and defense destroyed their offense. Yes. That formula worked great against a team with a backup QB that wasn't ready to play. How did that same matchup work two years later?
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I remember the game quite well.

And my point remains that to say it looks like Iowa hasn't tried on offense in 5 years is not accurate
 
eyesofhawk said:
You don't think some of those teams would have finished in the top 25 had they not picked up a loss vs Iowa?

A bonus question for Gray: what's your point?
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My point is this: wins against Illinois State, Troy, and Northwestern don't impress me. I want to hope that the team I have followed for over 40 years has at least a fighting chance to win against a good team. I no longer do and will not as long as Ferentz runs the program. No game-changing WR is coming here as long as he is coach. No defense is going to respect the passing game and will attack the LOS every play like they have for years.
And how many teams would have finished in the top 25 if they hadn't lost to Iowa? A P4 team with 3 or less losses is probably going to finish in the Top 25. 2021 PSU lost to five teams NOT named Iowa. Same thing with ISU that year. They were in the top 10 when Iowa played them. So was Indiana. All three teams turned out to be hugely overrated that year.
 
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eyesofhawk said:
I may have misunderstood what you meant when you originally said you weren't ok with the status quo. To me, that means you are overall dissatisfied with the Iowa football program. Is that fair to say?

If so, I don't understand how winning margin trumps winning. That seems to be the only current characteristic of Iowa football you mentioned.

You started by mentioning what seems to be frustration with Iowa fans that are ok with the status quo. I can see why what you mentioned could be frustrating. But it's not related the the status quo of the Iowa football program. And I'm plenty comfortable speaking for those fans by saying the main reason they are ok with the status quo of the Iowa football program is the results.

Other things to react to:
-I never said the West was a tough division. But since you asked, I do believe all schedules to be tough. NOTHING about football is easy, especially winning. A program that's already long been successful gets moved into a new division and continues to be successful. I think to chalk that up to the new division is a huge leap and a disrespectful one, at that. And I don't buy playing in the West as a reason to have overall dissatisfaction with Iowa football. It isn't Iowa's fault to have played those teams. And I guarantee before each season of Iowa playing in the West, you didn't look at the schedule and determine the only way you'd be satisfied with the regular season is if Iowa were to go undefeated through it.
-You mentioned how climate hasn't kept a handful of schools from being successful. Nor has it kept Iowa from being successful.
-You mentioned, the offense "doesn't have to be this bad". I don't know if that means you're calling Iowa's offense "bad", or not. But Iowa's offense was not "bad" this season. And I certainly wouldn't characterize the reasons it was bad the previous two seasons, as you have. And you can't possibly actually believe that KF would make any on-field decisions for the purpose of spiting fans. Just stop.
-And KF most definitely has a killer instinct.

But I was never going to accept any reasons you gave for being dissatisfied overall with Iowa football, anyway. That's because I don't believe there to be justification for such stance. So I'll leave you alone now. Was just curious what your reasoning was
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You’re welcome to your opinion and I’m welcome to mine. I cant help it if you want to be wrong
 
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eyesofhawk said:
No shit.

Would you theoretically put money on Cuse being a favorite vs Iowa?
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I don't work for any of the betting services. Neither do you. Why are you so sure Iowa would be favored against Syracuse? Syracuse beat Miami with Ward playing the entire game. Miami was thrashing ISU when Ward was in the game. ISU beat Iowa. Syracuse was the best team in their conference. Iowa was sixth in their conference.
 
grayhair81 said:
My point is this: wins against Illinois State, Troy, and Northwestern don't impress me. I want to hope that the team I have followed for over 40 years has at least a fighting chance to win against a good team. I no longer do and will not as long as Ferentz runs the program. No game-changing WR is coming here as long as he is coach. No defense is going to respect the passing game and will attack the LOS every play like they have for years.
And how many teams would have finished in the top 25 if they hadn't lost to Iowa? A P4 team with 3 or less losses is probably going to finish in the Top 25. 2021 PSU lost to five teams NOT named Iowa. Same thing with ISU that year. They were in the top 10 when Iowa played them. So was Indiana. All three teams turned out to be hugely overrated that year.
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You are quite confused.

Rather than unpack it all, just one quick point:
-very few game changing WR's exist on the planet. They never have and never will go to Iowa. How will Iowa's, or virtually everyone's offense ever produce?
 
grayhair81 said:
I don't work for any of the betting services. Neither do you. Why are you so sure Iowa would be favored against Syracuse? Syracuse beat Miami with Ward playing the entire game. Miami was thrashing ISU when Ward was in the game. ISU beat Iowa. Syracuse was the best team in their conference. Iowa was sixth in their conference.
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I'll take that as a "no"
 
eyesofhawk said:
I would take an elite D with zero offense over an above average D with a good offense every time
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our D is no where near elite--they are very good and have been very good--but teams like OSU-Tenn-Stanford-Purdiue have beat them like a drum many times over--
also do not laugh about what I said about the BF offfense running 30-35 plays a game and how much worse could a more open offense be on our D after all of that--tell me why that is wrong-
You are trying way too hard ot be the know it all of Iowa fball and you are not correct on every detail.

Let's even talk player--you said Shulte had improved every year? you honestly think he played better this yr than last-? he was one of the people that should have moved on and allowed one of our younger guys some experience--
 
eyesofhawk said:
Iowa has very little margin for error everywhere. They have a formula that works for the defense. Any type of change to the formula at a program level, will almost certainly at least marginally compromise the D. I don't think Iowa can afford that.

Iowa suffered from less emphasis on the D this season. Emphasis had to be put on installing a new offense. I guarantee the D had to make some concessions along the way, most likely in practice structure, to try to make that happen. Even in team whole team settings, I'm sure the defense got the least attention/emphasis it's gotten in years.

Bama/OSU. Both with a history of dominant to stingy defenses. Both D's went to trash the moment they switched to spread offense and adopted an offensive identity. The defenses have now recovered some at both programs. But not back to their previous dominance. How in the heck does that happen at programs with the best players, coaches, resources? Spread.

And Iowa's D is supposed to somehow be able to survive a switch to spread? 100% the D would be compromised. Iowa has a good D because that's how the program is built. If Iowa had to change their recruiting strategies/allotment of resources, it would compromise the D. For example, rather than having to fight to recruit a bunch of WR's, Iowa can get a less sought after TE to develop, and commit resources recruiting higher end defensive players.

Also, the spread would compromise the building of Iowa's D on a daily basis in practice. Iowa reps a lot of 1's vs 1's. The D would lose way too many reps needed to build its base defense by having to defend the spread every day. That's why a program's offensive and defensive philosophies and schemes should be married.

For example, that's part of why Iowa basketball hasn't been great at defending the pick-and-roll over the years. They run it on offense more now with Harding, especially given his chemistry with Freeman. But over the years Iowa's motion offense has used very little pick-and-roll, so it never got defended in live action at practice.

Really, the repercussions of spread would be endless. That's because football has to not only be complimentary on the field but in every aspect of the program. Especially at a place like Iowa, that has no margin for error as a program, does the formula all have to fit together. I just don't see any way a change that drastic to the offense wouldn't in some way take away from the D.

Not to mention the in-game effect and the fact that KF has said throwing the ball around makes it harder on the defense and harder to win
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Second paragraph above:
"Iowa suffered from less emphasis on the D this season."

You asked, I delivered. Now, spend the weekend explaining how what you said isn't what you said.
 
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eyesofhawk said:
1. Again, DeShaun Lee never really got exploited last season and the D was still fabulous with him until the Tennessee game, which went way beyond him.

I will give you that it took a while for PP to settle on DLee this season. Given that PP knows more than we do, it's possible that DLee was a bit of a weak link.

2. No, it doesn't take coaches 5 years to figure out how to exploit what's on film. And everything that's within the past couple years of film on Quinn was on film his first year playing. As a matter of fact, his film has gradually looked better, as he has improved as a player, over each year. This one made me laugh out loud a little bit.

3. Yes, less pressure on the QB this season. Less depth there this season perhaps a contributor. Although Iowa rushes to contain the QB in the pocket far more than people realize, it's a valid point you make.

Also, Iowa blitzed very little this season. That's typical for Iowa. But Iowa did blitz much more last season, and those are the two defenses being compared. Perhaps PP not as confident blitzing without Coop back there. I also think the overall complimentary approach Iowa employs could have played a roll. For example, with an expectation that the offense will put up more points, the staff may not have been willing to take the risk of blitzing as often. Last season they had to take that risk, and were money with their blitzes. The return to more conservative D this season may not have panned out quite as planned.

4. More laughable than #2. Again, coaches have had plenty of tape on Jay for a long time. And didn't he end up an All-american this season?

5. So the biggest reason this season's D wasn't as good as last year's is because last year's wasn't as good as most have made it out to be? First, that's a really weak point, if one at all.

Second, Iowa's D was elite last season. They gave up 4.1 yards/play. They held the national champions to their least yardage in 5 years.

PSU wasn't a good game, but there was also the rest of the season to judge the D by.

And Tennessee, although the D clearly got beat badly that day, it almost felt like a throwaway day, due to a few unique factors. The main one being that Iowa hadn't faced the no-huddle all season. The no-huddle is something that's thrown Iowa off a bit in the past. But after seeing it a little bit, was something that Iowa has been able to get a better handle on in the past. Again, Iowa never had the chance to adjust to having already seen it last season. Tennessee's tempo clearly got the best of the Iowa D. Iowa also had no tape on a very talented opposing QB. The deceptive speed on his 6'6" stride was something Iowa was never able to get a feel for. How often to your see Iowa ever give up the edge on its D? Almost never. It happened multiple times that game. Throw in a potential lack of rhythm from not having played in a few weeks, and I think you have a few factors that contributed to some timing issues for the D.

Iowa is a D that tries to get their teeth into you. Once they do that, and are able to feel you, they know how to take certain things away, and basically squeeze the air out of you. Iowa's D was just never able to get a bead on Tennessee to be able to feel and get their teeth into them.

Anyway, I would guess less team emphasis on the D, and less blitzing were what contributed to the dropoff in D this year. And I would have to guess the situation at corner, too Even though losing Coop didn't necessarily surface as a problem last season, he was clearly a difference-maker level player, and there were clearly struggles at the position this season
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Hmmm. This warrants re-visiting. Where did all those defensive stalwarts get drafted? One defensive starter drafted in the 5th round. Castro, Schulte, Higgins, Jackson, Harris, all multi-year starters: none of them drafted. I know, I know, all NFL GMs and scouts are idiots who obsess about meaningless measurable. The NFL would be in a far better position if teams averaged 13 points per game and punted 10 times per game.
0-0
Run the ball
 
grayhair81 said:
Hmmm. This warrants re-visiting. Where did all those defensive stalwarts get drafted? One defensive starter drafted in the 5th round. Castro, Schulte, Higgins, Jackson, Harris, all multi-year starters: none of them drafted. I know, I know, all NFL GMs and scouts are idiots who obsess about meaningless measurable. The NFL would be in a far better position if teams averaged 13 points per game and punted 10 times per game.
0-0
Run the ball
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Perhaps #3 covered a multitude of shortcomings in ‘23? He allows PP a lot of latitude in his schemes. That was a real solid secondary. A great player can do that for a team
 
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grayhair81 said:
Hmmm. This warrants re-visiting. Where did all those defensive stalwarts get drafted? One defensive starter drafted in the 5th round. Castro, Schulte, Higgins, Jackson, Harris, all multi-year starters: none of them drafted. I know, I know, all NFL GMs and scouts are idiots who obsess about meaningless measurable. The NFL would be in a far better position if teams averaged 13 points per game and punted 10 times per game.
0-0
Run the ball
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Happens where heisman winners don’t translate to the next level. Tim Tebow.
 
grayhair81 said:
Second paragraph above:
"Iowa suffered from less emphasis on the D this season."

You asked, I delivered. Now, spend the weekend explaining how what you said isn't what you said.
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Post #159 in linked thread

Imagine if we had Tim Lester….

Evidently, I might be one of the few football fans in North America that is capable of thinking for himself. You don't know that KF wouldn't have changed OC's on his own after '23. Maybe, just maybe, KF knew the root of the offense stalling out had almost nothing to do with BF. Maybe, just...
iowa.forums.rivals.com
 
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grayhair81 said:
Hmmm. This warrants re-visiting. Where did all those defensive stalwarts get drafted? One defensive starter drafted in the 5th round. Castro, Schulte, Higgins, Jackson, Harris, all multi-year starters: none of them drafted. I know, I know, all NFL GMs and scouts are idiots who obsess about meaningless measurable. The NFL would be in a far better position if teams averaged 13 points per game and punted 10 times per game.
0-0
Run the ball
Click to expand...
Why would that post warrant re-visiting?

I stand by every word of it
 
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