if this is in response to my post, you missed the point. I don't how many stars Snders, Jewell, or King had, don't really care. The point is no one knew what they would bring until performance by others, or injury threw them to the wolves. It seems like Mends is perhaps the first to try to see if he can spice things up.
What the heck has happened? Troubling Stats show how badly the OL and DL are struggling
- Thread starter Franisdaman
- Start date
If you look back 4-5 years at Iowa's OL recruiting, it seems to me that they haven't recruited nearly enough bodies. Especially for how important the OL is to Iowa's success.
I think the attrition at various positions has been a factor. Some O-linemen start at TE or LBs and transition. The tackles right now are miserable, and that's a massive understatement.
We keep hearing how it's technique. We are getting out muscled on both lines. This is not a quick fix, imo.
The games against Michigan and Wisky look daunting right now.
I take solace in that the Hawks usually win a game they're expected to lose... just like we lose a game we're expected to win. The Hawks have the "lose a game" facet covered. Now someone needs to step up.
The 2012 class (4 recruits) was a bust. The 2013 class (2) was Welsh and Goebel (he gone). There is no reason for only having 2 OLs in a class. The 2014 class (3) are all in the 2 deeps. The 2015 class (4) has Daniels (All-B1G caliber) and 2 in and out of the 2 deeps. The 2016 class (3) is a question mark.
There is a severe lack of pure T prospects of those 16 commits, too. Only 3-5 are/were T prospects. I think its been shown that it is easier for Ts to move inside than a G to move outside.
I'm no recruiting expert, but who would be to blame for this? Is it one person or a collective failure in recruiting good o-linemen?
Well first of all it's recruiting so it's a crap shoot. However, you would think that an old OL coach who places so much emphasis on good OL play would make the OL recruiting more of a priority, be more successful getting high quality players at that position, and never let a class have as little as 2 OL recruits.
As good a year as 2015 was, many who paid attention could see the glaring problem that was the O-tackle spot.
I saw more than a few off season comments about how that would get better, players would improve, etc.
Clearly, those projections were way off.
I didn't think it was possible, but the tackle spots have regressed from last year's relatively low bar.
I saw more than a few off season comments about how that would get better, players would improve, etc.
Clearly, those projections were way off.
I didn't think it was possible, but the tackle spots have regressed from last year's relatively low bar.
Pass Protection was my #1 main concern coming into the season because of how poor it was last season. It didn't get any better and our WRs not getting separation has made it look even worse.
I think we have some talented young T prospects but their probably just not B1G ready yet. Do you put them in there before they're ready and risk ruining their confidence? Or do you try to Band-Aid the current LT position with scheme and play calling?
This, and Ekatite isn't looking so hot either when he comes in to replace him.
Here is what Prime sees.
-D-line is not the issue people think it is. We are used to seeing good line play turn into good overall play from the defense. The line in my opinion is fine. The problem is that others players are getting so burnt and out of position, that they QB has an easy throw almost the second the ball is hiked. You saw it happen again and again against NW.
-The LB's are 50/50. Jewell is a studd and Neimann is pretty good. Bower on the other hand is not. He's constantly out of position, he's slow and he whiffs on tackles consistently. Either he's over thinking the game or he's just simply not that good. Where is Mends at? We need aggressive play and he's more capable of it.
-Secondary is a huge problem. Mabin is constantly getting burned. I haven't seen a CB get burned this much since Shada. Snyder is a liability that is flat out costing games. He misses tackles, he goes for the spear tackle, rather than wrapping up like he should and he's also getting burned. I've seen King chew him out at least twice this year for probably being out of position or just simply not getting the job done. Taylor is good, but he's growing.
What's maddening is that Bower and Mabin play the same side of the field. Guess, which side of the field is getting attacked the most?
It's getting worse, because teams are seeing that and going right for that exploit.
-D-line is not the issue people think it is. We are used to seeing good line play turn into good overall play from the defense. The line in my opinion is fine. The problem is that others players are getting so burnt and out of position, that they QB has an easy throw almost the second the ball is hiked. You saw it happen again and again against NW.
-The LB's are 50/50. Jewell is a studd and Neimann is pretty good. Bower on the other hand is not. He's constantly out of position, he's slow and he whiffs on tackles consistently. Either he's over thinking the game or he's just simply not that good. Where is Mends at? We need aggressive play and he's more capable of it.
-Secondary is a huge problem. Mabin is constantly getting burned. I haven't seen a CB get burned this much since Shada. Snyder is a liability that is flat out costing games. He misses tackles, he goes for the spear tackle, rather than wrapping up like he should and he's also getting burned. I've seen King chew him out at least twice this year for probably being out of position or just simply not getting the job done. Taylor is good, but he's growing.
What's maddening is that Bower and Mabin play the same side of the field. Guess, which side of the field is getting attacked the most?
It's getting worse, because teams are seeing that and going right for that exploit.
Last edited:
I would respectfully disagree about the line. The holes that are created in theory are supposed to be filled by the LB's. However, they are so easily manhandled that lead blockers can take the LB's out of the play and we thus see the routine 6,7,8-yard pick ups by opposing backs. There has been pathetically little pressure on QB's as has been noted, giving plenty of time for WR's to shred our poor secondary (King notwithstanding) and get open.
This all falls on the coaching; you're not recruiting good enough players, or your not coaching them up, or you at the very least refuse to scheme to make up for their deficiencies.
Possible, but I'm seeing a lot of missed tackles from LB's and even safeties who step up to stop the run. I've seen too many first level tackles completely whiffed by certain players on a routine basis.
The scheming for deficiency is spot on though in my opinion.
This is a biggie. The first guy needs to at least impede the runner and let the other 10 guys help clean up. Too many whiffs turn a 2-3 yard run into a 7-8 yarder.
Yup, totally agree with you on the tackling. For a program that usually prides itself on fundamentals, they're hard to see. I was always taught to stay low, wrap up, and drive through. Evidently it's "turn sideways and try to shoulder the guy off of his feet...or flail an arm at the ball carrier".
All three levels have not played consistently well. We blitzed 6 on both TD passes. The first one that Snyder missed the tackle on was a zone blitz in which A. Nelson got out very slow and late to the middle of the zone. No one was within three yards. The same on the pass interference double move. Their QB was not touched and we sent an extra. On the controversial TD in corner of the endzone where Miles Taylor the d-line and Jewell didn't contain him. The d-line has not been fine. Many of the sacks have been coverage sacks. Rarely have we seen a QB get popped. Take a look at how many times CJ has been jacked. The ends are young and will keep getting better. The tackles have struggled and rarely do we see a TFL to put them in 2 and 12. Jewell is very good, but did have two blunders that were costly as well. The 30 yd run in the 1st half was he and Miles. Niemann has been far from pretty good. He's nursing a hammy and is doing what he can, but he's hurt us on several occasions. Bower beat out Mends this fall. I'm guessing it's mental mistakes by Mends, but I'll leave that for the coaches to decide. Bower has not been as awful as fans on this board have said. Agree Mabin has been average. He's been better in coverage until this week where he had a couple mistakes. He's been more disappointing in coming off his guy and make a tackle on a running play or even a reception. When Snyder didn't wrap at the 8 yd line Mabin was absolutely standing two yards and didn't even attempt a tackle. Taylor has not been as good as last year. He has missed several tackles as well, has gotten sucked in on play action, and blown a few coverages. Snyder has had 2 or 3 blunders in each game. Not wrapping in space and bit on a couple of double moves. He's also been very good in coming down hill in run support and has our only 3 takeaways the past 3 games. All 13 guys in the defensive rotation have shown signs of being great players. Unfortunately they've all made some mistakes that need to be corrected if we are going turn it around. This week will be a true test as Minnesota is physical upfront and will come right at you.
The difference being that teams have watched tape and found the soft spots. Bazata is consistently getting beat. This is followed by Snyder being out of position as often as he's in position. End result, getting gashed up the gut. Maybe they should look at giving Faith more snaps.
The DEs have actually been a nice surprise. I think they've played pretty. Jaleel is doing all right too when he isn't getting his jersey stripped off his body by defenders.
Offense, I have no idea other than young receivers missing calls and not blocking downfield as well as they should. CJ needs to run too if he's been back there for more than 3 seconds and nobody is open. He's having tea back there at times.
Bower and Mabin do not play same side of the field.
Bower is a Wlb which means weakside or short side not unless Mabin is switching sides with King..
Not trying to be an a22 but so much stuff on this board is so made up.
Sorry, but no I don't buy that one. Not saying DE can't get better. But they are slow as molasses and have failed to set the edge numerous times on runs to the outside.
The one commonality in all of our posts seems to be that there are a lot of deficiencies. We don't all completely agree what those are, but the fact that there are multiple areas involved does put together a concerning picture of the state of the defense currently.
They are trying to hard to strip the ball versus getting the ball carrier down I see it in the pros too
Wasn't it Ed Cunningham of ESPN who said Iowa had the best OL in the nation? Good grief.
Some more sobering stats, from HawkCentral:
Iowa’s abysmal statistical rankings against below-average competition:
* 87th out of 128 FBS teams in rushing defense
* 95th in rushing offense
* 110th in total offense
Leisikow then writes about if it’s really the fundamentals, not inferior personnel, that is holding the Hawkeyes back.
This year, the flash-point positions for Iowa’s early-season inconsistency are at left tackle, linebacker and safety.
Cole Croston was visibly overmatched at left tackle in Saturday’s 38-31 loss, as evidenced by Northwestern’s Ifeadi Odenigbo (four sacks) being named the Big Ten’s defensive player of the week.
But Croston wasn’t being ripped apart by Ferentz or teammates Tuesday — not that you’d ever expect them to.
Giving up six sacks was a group failure, they say.
“Some players have off days. I’m not saying he did. He played really good most of the game,” said Myers, who started at left tackle 10 times last season but was moved inside to guard during Rose Bowl preparation. “I make mistakes, too. I got beat. James (Daniels, the center) got beat. Everybody got beat.”
Trying to dig into Iowa’s defensive woes is even more confounding, considering eight guys with significant starting experience returned off a 12-2 team. Bo Bower has been decent but unspectacular at weak-side linebacker.
http://www.hawkcentral.com/story/sp...m-wadley-matt-vandeberg-ben-niemann/91565396/
Cryptic quotes about back-end tackling and communication point to needing more from junior Miles Taylor and sophomore Brandon Snyder, the starting safeties.
Against Northwestern, Taylor gave way too much cushion to top receiver Austin Carr on a key fourth-down play. And Snyder has had feast-or-famine moments; on Saturday forcing a Justin Jackson fumble, but later failing to stop him on a critical 58-yard touchdown run.
That prompted me to ask Ferentz about the possibility of Gair (who has three years of playing experience, including two starts and a game-saving interception at Pittsburgh in 2014) at safety. The answer was probably what you’d expect.
“It's not a knock on Anthony,” Ferentz said. “It's just that we feel like Miles has played better and practiced better.”
At one level, you have to admire Ferentz’s willingness to stand firm on eight months of evaluation. After all, he’s made it into Year 18 here by developing two-star recruits into All-Big Ten performers, especially up front.
At another level, you have to consider it an indictment that there’s not better backup options available at key spots like left tackle and safety.
Ferentz and his players insist the biggest problem to the shaky 3-2 start is fixable fundamental mistakes.
“Talent disparities and all that kind of stuff … I don't think that's our issue right now,” Ferentz said. “Our issue is just playing more consistently; all 11 guys being where they're supposed to be on a given play.”
Saturday’s 11 a.m. game at Minnesota marks Iowa's halfway point of the regular season.
It’s fair to give the staff the benefit of the doubt this week — a litmus test to see if it’s really the fundamentals, not inferior personnel, holding the Hawkeyes back.
But if Iowa loses as a favorite for the third time in four weeks, it’ll be time to throw some life preservers in to the ocean.
“We just haven’t been playing like Iowa football lately. That’s just what we need to get back to,” Myers said. “Just get back to what we were doing, and what this program has been based off of.”
Source: http://www.hawkcentral.com/story/sp...croston-miles-taylor-brandon-snyder/91576014/
Some more sobering stats, from HawkCentral:
Iowa’s abysmal statistical rankings against below-average competition:
* 87th out of 128 FBS teams in rushing defense
* 95th in rushing offense
* 110th in total offense
Leisikow then writes about if it’s really the fundamentals, not inferior personnel, that is holding the Hawkeyes back.
This year, the flash-point positions for Iowa’s early-season inconsistency are at left tackle, linebacker and safety.
Cole Croston was visibly overmatched at left tackle in Saturday’s 38-31 loss, as evidenced by Northwestern’s Ifeadi Odenigbo (four sacks) being named the Big Ten’s defensive player of the week.
But Croston wasn’t being ripped apart by Ferentz or teammates Tuesday — not that you’d ever expect them to.
Giving up six sacks was a group failure, they say.
“Some players have off days. I’m not saying he did. He played really good most of the game,” said Myers, who started at left tackle 10 times last season but was moved inside to guard during Rose Bowl preparation. “I make mistakes, too. I got beat. James (Daniels, the center) got beat. Everybody got beat.”
Trying to dig into Iowa’s defensive woes is even more confounding, considering eight guys with significant starting experience returned off a 12-2 team. Bo Bower has been decent but unspectacular at weak-side linebacker.
http://www.hawkcentral.com/story/sp...m-wadley-matt-vandeberg-ben-niemann/91565396/
Cryptic quotes about back-end tackling and communication point to needing more from junior Miles Taylor and sophomore Brandon Snyder, the starting safeties.
Against Northwestern, Taylor gave way too much cushion to top receiver Austin Carr on a key fourth-down play. And Snyder has had feast-or-famine moments; on Saturday forcing a Justin Jackson fumble, but later failing to stop him on a critical 58-yard touchdown run.
That prompted me to ask Ferentz about the possibility of Gair (who has three years of playing experience, including two starts and a game-saving interception at Pittsburgh in 2014) at safety. The answer was probably what you’d expect.
“It's not a knock on Anthony,” Ferentz said. “It's just that we feel like Miles has played better and practiced better.”
At one level, you have to admire Ferentz’s willingness to stand firm on eight months of evaluation. After all, he’s made it into Year 18 here by developing two-star recruits into All-Big Ten performers, especially up front.
At another level, you have to consider it an indictment that there’s not better backup options available at key spots like left tackle and safety.
Ferentz and his players insist the biggest problem to the shaky 3-2 start is fixable fundamental mistakes.
“Talent disparities and all that kind of stuff … I don't think that's our issue right now,” Ferentz said. “Our issue is just playing more consistently; all 11 guys being where they're supposed to be on a given play.”
Saturday’s 11 a.m. game at Minnesota marks Iowa's halfway point of the regular season.
It’s fair to give the staff the benefit of the doubt this week — a litmus test to see if it’s really the fundamentals, not inferior personnel, holding the Hawkeyes back.
But if Iowa loses as a favorite for the third time in four weeks, it’ll be time to throw some life preservers in to the ocean.
“We just haven’t been playing like Iowa football lately. That’s just what we need to get back to,” Myers said. “Just get back to what we were doing, and what this program has been based off of.”
Source: http://www.hawkcentral.com/story/sp...croston-miles-taylor-brandon-snyder/91576014/
yes, Mabin and King are as good of a corner tandem as Iowas has ever put on the field together. Since game one, Mabin has been terrific - as he has for the better part of 3 years as a starter on a B1G team. The world's best corners have some passes completed on them.
I don't want to "bash" the guy because I was a linebacker for a reason
and it's not his fault he's undersized.That being said, he's getting beat FAR too often for a high D1 level corner. Some of that could be attributed to our horrid DC, who of course is also the d-backs man, running the same set 98.32% of the time with no press coverage at the line and/or a 12-yard cushion. His angles are sometimes questionable along with tackling (however that's the entire team and nobody is ever perfect).
Not saying he hasn't worked hard, or hasn't made some good and great plays, but this season has been more than a bit of a struggle for him.
Mabin is far from undersized.I don't want to "bash" the guy because I was a linebacker for a reason
That being said, he's getting beat FAR too often for a high D1 level corner. Some of that could be attributed to our horrid DC, who of course is also the d-backs man, running the same set 98.32% of the time with no press coverage at the line and/or a 12-yard cushion. His angles are sometimes questionable along with tackling (however that's the entire team and nobody is ever perfect).
Not saying he hasn't worked hard, or hasn't made some good and great plays, but this season has been more than a bit of a struggle for him.
Sorry, no. Mabin is not a particularly good corner.
He's not terrible, and he does suffer by comparison being on the field at the same time as one of the best corners in college football currently.
But to say that he is "terrific" is just not accurate.
He's not terrible, and he does suffer by comparison being on the field at the same time as one of the best corners in college football currently.
But to say that he is "terrific" is just not accurate.
...when spell check turns "underwhelming" into "undersized" thereby making you look a bit stupid. Of course said stupidity caused the misspelling of "underwhelming" in the first place. Love to know what the hell I typed originally....
Which is probably about right because they are looking at both Juniors and Seniors.
NFL Draft Scout has him ranked as the #19 corner in his class.
Looking at the offensive stats under Greg Davis is depressing. People complained about O'Keefe but Davis is much worse. The passing game is the area that has suffered the most. If you look at yards per play under Davis is really bad.
On the other hand I know people want to say Phil Parker isn't good but the evidence shows otherwise. The last three years they have finished in the top 25 in total defense, they finished 6th, 22nd and 22nd. The year they finished 6th was one of the best defensive seasons statistically since Kirk has been head coach. They finished better than the '08 and '09 teams. If that 2013 actually had an offense it would have been a great team. They finished 85th in total offense and 96th in yards per play.
On the other hand I know people want to say Phil Parker isn't good but the evidence shows otherwise. The last three years they have finished in the top 25 in total defense, they finished 6th, 22nd and 22nd. The year they finished 6th was one of the best defensive seasons statistically since Kirk has been head coach. They finished better than the '08 and '09 teams. If that 2013 actually had an offense it would have been a great team. They finished 85th in total offense and 96th in yards per play.
These stats yet the officials lost you the NW game? Last year was an anomaly. Kirk is a 7-5 coach on average with one good year every 5. More losing seasons since he has been coach than Nebraska the last 60 years. Time to accept reality as long as he is your coach.
Nebraska hasn't been to a major bowl in 15 years so I guess that means Nebraska has a good season every 15 years, right. Even that is yet to be seen. In that period, Nebraska's best season was 3 losses just once. The rest were 4 losses or more.
Last edited:
