Whats Your Lineup Now?
- Thread starter hexumhawk
- Start date
Patrick playing 20-25 minutes seems like a real possibility if they are comfortable with playing Joe at the two.
I think JoBo as the starting two is the most likely scenario. We just went from having five seniors to two. I’m not going to panic yet because I think we still have the pieces to be very good. I’m excited to see what we will get out of Nunge, Pemsl, Joe T, and Patrick.
I think JoBo as the starting two is the most likely scenario. We just went from having five seniors to two. I’m not going to panic yet because I think we still have the pieces to be very good. I’m excited to see what we will get out of Nunge, Pemsl, Joe T, and Patrick.
1 Jordan / Joey T
2 C McC / CJF
3 Joey W / P McC
4 Cordell / Jack
5 Luka / Ryan
Lots of flexibility and lots of question marks.
2 C McC / CJF
3 Joey W / P McC
4 Cordell / Jack
5 Luka / Ryan
Lots of flexibility and lots of question marks.
This is my lineup.
Connor is dividing his athletic time between baseball and some basketball, he's not going to be as good as if he devoted all the time to basketball.
Nunge is needed for height and he is more diverse then Pemsl, and Frederick is known to be a shooter and ball handler and the reason he was redshirted was not because he needed time to adjust to the college game, as most of you know he accrued a broken rib taking a charge from Tyler Cook. If he's also willing to play defense that's a good thing.
Wieskamp can float between small forward and shooting guard and Patrick can fill in at small forward when Joe needs a break or is in foul trouble.
Pemsl and Kriener can fill in as needed along with Joe T. at point.
Still a long way until October so who knows if Fran will bring any more in to fill the empty scholarships.
I'm not as concerned about the ethnic makeup of this team as most of you are, and evidently neither is our coaching staff.
We'll have more seniors on scholarship, Bohannan and Kriener, for the first time since Gessell, Woodbury, Uthoff, and Clemmons graduated.
Of course, both McC kids were top 100 4* recruits. Does anyone think that C McC played this season past while a better player sat?
For that matter does anyone think Iowa is passing on superior black kids to take inferior white kids? We don't want a player so paranoid or sensitive to believe that McC prefers inferior white players to superior black players. That's a locker room activist and locker room activists are never good for team chemistry.
For that matter does anyone think Iowa is passing on superior black kids to take inferior white kids? We don't want a player so paranoid or sensitive to believe that McC prefers inferior white players to superior black players. That's a locker room activist and locker room activists are never good for team chemistry.
Hmmm.... I'm assuming you are referring to Connor
He shot 16% in B1G play. He was horrible. Literally the worst player on the team after Cook.... If he increases his percentage as much as Horner did his sophomore year(15% jump), CMac would still be shooting less 31%. Which is still bad.
I highly doubt Connor will ever be as good as Horner was from the 3. Which he desperately needs to be a good PG.
BirdistheWord
HB Legend
Shooting guard is a major concern. I say that with the opinion that Weezy is really a "3." Honestly, I had concerns even before Moss transferred, as i saw him as a great role player as a spot up shooter off the bench. Anyway, /CJF better be damn good.
I can remember back in the day when BYU put some very good teams on the floor who were all pale.
BirdistheWord
HB Legend
With the 10 guys we have:
1. Joe Toussaint
2. Jordan Bohannon
3. Joe Wieskamp
4. Jack Nunge
5. Luka Garza
First off Bench:
Connor McCaffery (1)
Cordell Pemsl (3, 4)
Ryan Kriener (4, 5)
Patrick McCaffery (3)
C.J. Fredrick (2)
1. Joe Toussaint
2. Jordan Bohannon
3. Joe Wieskamp
4. Jack Nunge
5. Luka Garza
First off Bench:
Connor McCaffery (1)
Cordell Pemsl (3, 4)
Ryan Kriener (4, 5)
Patrick McCaffery (3)
C.J. Fredrick (2)
With today's college game, as much as most of you want Toussaint to start with JBO, it's highly unlikely your going to see 2 guards that are 6 feet and under playing at the same time. That's just not the matrix of the game. Either Joe will move over to the the off guard spot or you're going to see the redshirt freshmen Fredrick at the 2 guard. Conner is a nice player but his focus is on baseball and will be for most of the summer, it's doubtful he will improve enough to show enough improvement that Iowa fans require of veteran players.
Toussaint is just coming into this system and running a power 5 program for the point is entirely different then high school, even it it's enter city New York. It will take awhile for him to soak it all it in.
Which ranking service had CM as a 4* top 100 recruit?
Disney?
https://247sports.com/PlayerSport/C...ior-132807/RecruitRankHistory/?history=top247
Even the composite (including Disney) never had him in the top 100 (4*).
This puffery is silly. Can we just tell the truth about our coach, our players and our program? The truth is pretty damn respectable.
No, not Disney. Thought they just recruited targets for pedophiles.
ESPN, actually. You know, the service with the largest data base, most scouts, most analysts and, of course, a healthy bias against Iowa recruits. In the years I've been following ESPN I think Joey T is the first recruit to rise after committing to Iowa.
I only cite to ESPN for the foregoing reasons, especially because its anti Iowa bias makes ESPN a reluctant witness, so I'm comparing apples to apples over the course of the years and from people not interested in puffing Iowa recruits-they're too busy puffing more prestigious schools recruits.
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/199887/connor-mccaffery
247 has a much smaller body of contributors, far fewer analysts and is much more dependent on urban AAU coaches and sponsors, at least that's the knock on 247. I can't really say I've spent much time looking into 247 so I'm not rendering any personal opinion on 247 other than I don't cherry pick the service the gives the Iowa kids the highest rankings. Rivals is usually way off (had Oglesby ahead of Uthoff and the Big Ten PoY from Michigan for example.
If you're talking about the "composite 247" I'd agree that it has value as a consensus of opinion source. The problem is, or at least was the last time I checked (2 years at least) they didn't kick high/lows so a single outlier could have a disproportionate effect on the composite grade.
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That cheesy site named ESPN: http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/199887/connor-mccaffery
Why be a dick about this? Connor and Patrick were both respected out of HS. Other coaches would have recruited them if their father weren't the Iowa coach.
The 2 teams playing for NCAA Title started smaller back courts... yeah Bohannon 6'1" and Toussaint 5'11" would be a bit smaller but not substantially.
Virginia
Kihei Clark 5-9
Kyle Guy 6-3
Texas Tech
David Moretti 6-2
Matt Mooney 6-3
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/markets/102915/top-5-companies-owned-disney.asp
I thought everyone would get that allusion but I guess I overestimated my audience once again.
No one who’s livelihood depends on this stuff looks at ESPN. Ever.
“Other coaches would have recruited them if their father weren't the Iowa coach.”*
*Things very easy to say but impossible to prove.
Other than exposing fan puffery, all this is, of course, moot now. How many coaches are kicking themselves right now that Connor McCaffery is not playing for them? How many legit players have eliminated Iowa from consideration because they know that daddy is going to get baseball boy his minutes no matter what?
The world may never know....
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Did Connor steal your girlfriend? Why do you have such a hard on for him?
On the contrary. I actually defended him from the people here saying that he was playing two sports at a low level. You can look it up.
I have nothing against the young man. Not one thing.
I do, however, have a problem with giving P5 scholarships to not just one but TWO of your own children. I have said before it will likely be a significant net negative for the program. Time will tell if I’m right.
The people puffing up his high school rankings in order to justify Fran’s (poor, imho) decision are the ones who are really not doing the kid any favors.
So you don't think that either McCaffrey son is worth a scholarship? And you think that the coaching staff favors them over the other players? LOL!
This. But I wish that he would drop baseball and focus on basketball for at least a year to see how much it could help him. I think if he refocused the time he currently spends on baseball to basketball, and specifically improving his percentages, he could be a much better player.
You may be right but sometimes that different sport can keep you energized so you don't burn out on one sport. Adam Haluska said the other day that he REALLY looked forward to track season so he could get away from basketball for a while. He thought it really helped him.
Patrick might turn out to be net positive if he redshirts and gets stronger.
The only way the father/coach son/player dynamic works is if the kid is a bona fide star. These situations have been suspect since time immemorial because human beings understand human nature.
Saying it will likely be a net negative for the program has more to do with understanding natural human reactions and how the situationcan be used against us much more than it does any judgment about the players’ talent. But no — I don’t think Connor is a significant basketball talent. If his parents had smaller egos, he’d probably be better off concentrating on baseball at a high level program.
Patrick is a consensus 4-star player, and Connor has been a good team player. There is nothing that suggests anything otherwise. You seem to be projecting your own biases in your argument. Here are some quotes from recent articles about 2 of the most highly-rated recruits considering Iowa:
Jalen Suggs: I’ve always known Coach Fran (McCaffery) since I've been real young. I know Pat (McCaffery), I know his sons. I've been down there a couple times, so I have a lot of great relationships down there. It's close to home. That's one where it really truly is a family feel, and I feel comfortable down there. … They’re in the mix."
Xavier Foster - Iowa head coach Fran McCaffery and assistant coach Sherman Dillard visited with the Fosters the following night. Xavier said their message included "the homey feel" of Iowa — that it's a dream for many Iowa kids to play for the Hawkeyes.
Doesn't sound like a negative for these 2, probably the most important 2 recruits in the 2020 class. And I would bet that there are a lot of other players that don't feel like you do. If you look back at the kids that have come to Iowa, the McCaffery family is often cited as one of the positives about Iowa that drew them here. I could not find any examples of a current or former recruit stated that he was not considering or left Iowa because the coach/staff favored Connor or Patrick.
So the largest recruiting data base, with the most scouts and analysts is deficient because ESPN is owned by ABC and ABC is owned by Disney was your basketball related allusion? Are the college basketball guys on SIRIUS owned by Disney as well? I mention that because they also refer to ESPN grades and ranks when they discuss recruiting.
I'm assuming that no one that recruits for a living relies on any media recruiting service for recruiting information. Actual coaches and scouts have their own private data bases in which players are graded on metrics that are probably unique to the program and its needs and system, don't they? Learning that Big Ten level basketball coaches relied on Rivals, 247, Scout, ESPN or any other media service would be very disappointing.
Clearly he means Harvey. Probably didn't know he has to sit one year. Our back court is going to real weak next year. Unless we build amazing team chemistry and perfect the zone. I really liked Fran up until the start of the 2017-2018. Our assistants are weak recruiters and so us Fran. The only 4 stars we ever get are Iowa local kids who we should get. Sorry forget Garza. I thought Fran was Tom Davis on Roids at first but he's really Todd Lickliter on Testosterone boosters. To leave the program after starting for 3 years is very telling of Fran's coaching ability.
It's not a good roster make up to play an up tempo offense. Arguably they would be the least athletic group trying to push pace in the league. That is assuming Fran wants to play O the same we he has during his entire tenure.
The biggest hope for improvement on D would seem to be the addition of Toussaint. I'm skeptical that they can do much better than the 130s or so nationally they managed per kenpom this last season.
I don't think they'll drop off tremendously. But I also don't see upward movement likely.
Hopefully a borderline tourney qualifier that sneaks in.
The biggest hope for improvement on D would seem to be the addition of Toussaint. I'm skeptical that they can do much better than the 130s or so nationally they managed per kenpom this last season.
I don't think they'll drop off tremendously. But I also don't see upward movement likely.
Hopefully a borderline tourney qualifier that sneaks in.
Again, ESPN shows Luka to have been a 4* top 100 from DC and Joey T a 4* from New York City (better as a John Lennon song than a place of habitation to be sure) top 120 player. TC was from St. Louis. Technically, Mikey G-although he kind of doesn't count given his HS and AAU history.
Iowa hasn't recruited at this level since the mid 90s, where we were going to NCAA most years and winning a game. We need to return to that level before we think about the next level in recruiting and success. Joey T and CJ will be fairly significant barometers of Iowa's recruiting profile. Getting that kid from ND or those Marquette brothers would be a big sign of an upward trajectory.
What those 90s teams did was mix in good black athletes to go with there skilled but a step slow white kids. Not that it's ever going to be an exact science but I'd like to see atleast 1/3 of the team be really athletic defensive minded players that can be average shooters but slasher/dunkers.. Wieskamp, Nunge, Garza, Pat and CJ could be really good if mixed with an athletic shot blocker/ post defender, Slasher/ wing defender and another PG like Joe T. If we can get DJ Harvey, Foster and another jitterbug PG we could be really good in 20/21 and maybe even better the following year.
Pretty sure CMcC was a 5 star his freshman year on ESPNs top 25 freshman players and a 4 star on Rivals during his Sophomore and Junior year. Clearly though he should just focus on baseball cuz hes a backup good backup at best in the Big Ten.
“Pretty sure ...5* his freshman year...”
Woah! That’s right up there with back to back (multiple way tie for) third place finishes. Lolz.
Hang a banner.
I’ve seen some nonsensical fan puffery but this....I mean he’s obviously a star. Don’t watch his actual play against big ten competition. Crap like that doesn’t matter as long as you’re “pretty sure” he was a 5 star ESPN rated player at age 15.
I’m pretty sure he was a top five rated player in the world when he was in fourth grade.
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It actually says more about the transfer climate than either of them.
I don't know about "really good in 20/21", but agree that having a third of the team that are at least median level athletically for their position is important.
Particularly for a coach that wants to push tempo offensively. One of their top 3 players offensively (Garza) is ponderously slow overall and below average footspeed and quickness at his position.
I don't care what their background is, but Iowa absolutely needs to bring in quicker players that are physically and mentally prepared to play D at the B1G level. Kenpom D efficiency ranking in the 130s will make it very difficult to achieve more success in the tourney. They need to cut that number in half.
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