I didn't redefine anything. You, however, illustrated what you consider rationality.......to anyone who had any doubts on that score.
Which administration lied the most?
- Thread starter ihhawk
- Start date
Having a "hate list" and using the IRS to retribute opponents...Having a "secret plan" to end the VN war......just a couple of things....,.,a lot his "hatred" was espoused by Spiro Agnew......,.,
You said he lied every time he opened his mouth. I asked you for an example. You didn't give me any. Want to try again? The subject isn't whether Nixon was a good president or a good person. I doubt if we would argue a great deal on the latter issue, for sure.
For the record, though, on the IRS issue, you have him confused with Obama. Nixon wanted to do use the IRS to punish political opponents, but it never happened. Obama actually did it.
The argument that Roosevelt knew about Pearl Harbor before it happened is best presented while wearing a tinfoil hat. There was a war warning that had gone out to US commands in the Pacific a week earlier, and due to strict radio silence the Japanese had disappeared from our radio listening posts. They eventually showed up not too far off Hawaii. Even then a radar station in Hawaii picked up a large flight of planes coming in, they misidentified it as a flight of B-17s that were expected.
No doubt Americans didn't want war and would not have gone into it if US forces were not attacked. Roosevelt knew war with Japan was coming but he thought they would strike farther away than Hawaii. As a former Under-Secretary of the Navy, knowing the importance of the Pacific fleet, he would not have had all the battleships lined up like ducks at Ford Island. And there would have been a lot more aerial surveillance around the Hawaiian Islands. He just had to be attacked to get the US into war, he didn't require a disaster.
It is one of those myths or extremist opinions that will never die.
As it turned out Lone, every friggin' word he spoke regarding Watergate was a friggin' lie...and that was almost 3 years worth of "splainin;".....Nixon lied about VN and he lied as a candidate in 1968 vs. Humphrey about having " a secret plan" to solve the VN issue. I have given yopu plenty of examples Lone....you choose to swallow the GOP kool-aid and ignore the facts. Afriggin'typical..............You should understand better than most, seeing that you lived during Nixon's Presidency. Nixon's scapegoat was always the "liberal" media when in fact the troubles Nixon experienced where of his own making 100%. Nixon was a victim of himself and his schemes. He is not a victim of the media/press/Washington Post. IF Nixon would have come clean when "watergate" was initially discovered, he would have removed any wind from any sails. Instead, Nixon chose to lie, and lie and lie some more. He made a mountain out of a molehill. Nixon's Presidency was a wart on the office of POTUS. His actions have hampered the power of the office as none other.
As much good as Nixon accomplished Lone...and he did some very nice things...his actions of subverting justice and lying, covering up the facts and his ever dark and secretive mind were more than enough to offset these many accomplishments. Nixon's presidency is easily the most failed Presidency of my lifetime.........None other comes even close.
However, I wish IO could have been a fly on the wall when he and Kissinger went to their knees and prayed!
No, he didn't lie about having a secret plan for Vietnam. He definitely had one, and it worked. He lied about Cambodia, I'll give you that.
I thought I made it clear I'm not a Nixon fan or defender. He was responsible for his forced resignation.....he said as much, himself. No question about that in anybody's mind.
But to believe his administration was more crooked than the one we have now is to drink the Bamster Kool-Aid by the quart.
This is correct. And it's pretty typical of most conspiracy theories. On a vastly smaller scale, look at the people who say Bush knew in advance about 911 because one of the reports to Rice said OBL was dedicated to attacking the U.S. inside the country.
FDR wanted the U.S. to get into the war. He approved or instigated a series of policy moves that Japan was sure to find unbearable. He knew war was coming. But there's no credible evidence he knew of the Dec. 7 attack.
Like virtually all disasters, that took a combination of mistakes, luck, and coincidences (as well as great planning and executive by the Japanese). On the flip side, it was just luck that our carriers weren't at Pearl Harbor, and it was bad judgment by the Japanese not to launch the second wave.
There's no doubt that everybody knew Hawaii was a prime and likely target. Billy Mitchell specifically predicted the Japanese would attack Pearl Harbor at 7:30 on a Sunday morning....and he made the prediction in 1924. One of the standard war games problems the Navy practiced was a surprise attack on Pearl Harbor.
Which makes the success of the Japanese even more head-shaking.
The Black Helicopter crowd are breeding out of control. We might need to employ eugenics.
"The moon landing was faked."
"Lincoln and Washington were gay."
"FDR orchestrated Pearl Harbor."
"GW orchestrated 9/11."
"The world has always been run by the council of 12."
"Manhattan will be underwater by 2015."
The list is endless.
Lone...please tell me what Nixon's "secret plan" was to end the conflict. It was never made apparent to me during the 6 years of his administration.
Nixon's "secret plan" was the silent majority's answer to The Temptations and their famous refrain from "Pschodelic Shack"..."Vote for me and I'll set you free!"
Nixon had no plan..........His was the same as Landslide's...... Non-existant.
Somtell me Lone....what was his "secret"? He figured out he couldn't win it? He has NO IDEA on how to win the conflict...he did have an idea on how to get elected POTUS, however.
Joel, apparently you aren't as old as I thought you are, because there are a couple of terms -- three, in fact -- that anybody in my generation would know. They are "peace with honor" and "Vietnamization" and "lottery." They are part of Nixon's plan to end the war.
For the record, he never said he had a secret plan. In fact, he explained his plan to various editorial boards and others. It was short on specifics, which led a reporter to sarcastically call it a "secret plan," to make it look sneaky, and Nixon never corrected it because it actually worked to his advantage in the campaign.
And you make a major mistake in saying it was a plan to win the war. It was not. It was a plan to END the war. By the time Nixon was running for president, after Tet, nobody was talking about winning the Vietnam war. The idea was how to GTFO while saving as much face as possible.
Nixon planned to start withdrawing U.S. ground troops -- which he did in the spring of '69, a couple of months after he was inaugurated -- and replace them with South Vietnamese soldiers. This process was termed "Vietnamization." As part of this process, he increased logistical and training support to the South Vietnamese.
Another part of the plan to to cut the supply lines of the Viet Cong, principally the Ho Chi Minh Trail. That involved bombing and mining harbors and, most controversially, bombing in Cambodia, which Congress opposed and which was not done openly.
A part of the Nixon plan that addressed anti-war sentiment at home was ending the draft system and replacing it with a lottery. This made a huge difference -- as one who was directly involved, I can tell you that it's impossible to overestimate the impact. Some cynics say that it was Kent State that put the kibosh on the anti-war movement on campus, but it was the lottery, which eliminated most of the uncertainty, and with it, the opposition to the war that was based on self-interest instead of principle -- which was most of it.
Finally, Nixon wanted to put pressure on the Soviets and Chinese to cut back support for the North in order to make it easier for him to extricate American forces.
The extent to which any of this worked is a matter of record and debate, of course. We were still in Vietnam after Nixon was out of the White House, albeit with a much smaller presence. But he definitely had a plan.
As long as we're talking Nixon and presidential prevarication, some of you wacko lefties might want to check out this clip from yesterday's Chris Wallace show. I will wait with bated breath to hear you talk about how Bob Woodward is a shill for Republicans.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...ama-blew-it-in-iraq-video/?PageSpeed=noscript
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...ama-blew-it-in-iraq-video/?PageSpeed=noscript
