Who’s our Point Guard this year?
- Thread starter hawksense
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So you think Sandfort can't cover a 2 guard but a guy coming off a serious leg injury with little real practice time over a period of an entire year will be effective in that role? 🤔
Didn't say that. I said it's possible that Dix could be ready to do that.
But now that you ask, I think a healthy, in-shape Josh Dix would be better-able to guard a 2-guard than Payton. Payton is good but he doesn't have the lateral footspeed to keep up with the 2 guards. Heck, they were blowing by Kris at times last year and his lateral quickness is much better than Payton's. Are you saying that Payton can guard B1G scoring guards on a regular basis?
BTW, Payton's DBPM (Defensive +-) was the 2nd lowest on the team (Ash was the lowest). I love his game, but his on-ball defense isn't his strong point.
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I'm saying that this year at least Sandfort will very likely be a better option at the 2 than Dix who might be ready for some spot minutes but far from 100% and fully equipped to bring it defensively. It's incredibly optimistic to believe that he would be.
With respect to Sandfort guarding a 2 in the B1G on a regular basis, it's all about matchups on a given night. A lot of 2 guards are primarily spot up jump shooters. Until Perkins, Iowa hasn't had a 2 guard that was a real threat to drive the ball in years. Neither Fredrick nor Jbo was a threat to drive the ball on any kind of regular basis. There is little doubt in my mind that Sandfort is already a more effective defender than Jbo was who played out there for 5 years. More athleticism with more length. He's not as good out there as Perkins or Ulis obviously but he's capable, as is Kris for that matter.
I already gave you the stats showing you his assist to turnover ratio was excellent.
He was a lot more consistent at turning it over than he was at assists.
Keep in mind that I have not said that Joe was a bad player or anything. I said he was inconsistent. Do you think that's wrong?
That is completely untrue
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Joe’s A/TO ratio is competitive with every other of the top assist guys in the Big Ten, and well above average across the board. If you extrapolate Joe’s stats to 30mpg (which is about what most of those other guys were receiving), he comes in neck and neck with the conference assists leader Verge at about 5.5apg compared to a whole one less turnover per game at 2.4, also less than Ivey, Mulcahy, X Johnson, and Fatts Russell. The same as EJ Liddell, who isn’t even a primary ballhandler
Look at his game box scores. Wildly inconsistent.That is completely untrue
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Joe’s A/TO ratio is competitive with every other of the top assist guys in the Big Ten, and well above average across the board. If you extrapolate Joe’s stats to 30mpg (which is about what most of those other guys were receiving), he comes in neck and neck with the conference assists leader Verge at about 5.5apg compared to a whole one less turnover per game at 2.4, also less than Ivey, Mulcahy, X Johnson, and Fatts Russell. The same as EJ Liddell, who isn’t even a primary ballhandler
Just did. Joe had games this season where he turned the ball over anywhere from 0-3 times (never more). Given that he averaged 1.4 TOPG, that is about exactly what you would expect and pretty darn consistent
I challenge you to find another guy in the top 15 of that list who didn’t have a single game with more than 3 turnovers. And since I already started looking, you can rule out Verge, Frazier, Ivey, and Johnson
Your first statement is entirely wrong. The second statement is entirely correct. You don't average 7.4 assists per game on a per 40 basis (good for essentially 2nd in the league) with a 2.35 assist/turnover average if you're not consistently doling out more assists than turnovers. Simple math. Joe, like many other point guards, did have games where he turned it over too much. He was far from perfect. He also led the entire league in steals per game on a per 40 basis at 3.33 giving him the same steal/TO ratio as Perkins at 1.06. Both were among the league leaders in that ratio effectively offsetting the turnovers and that number doesn't include a lot of turnovers that he actually created but were awarded to others who ended up with the ball. He is extremely disruptive on defense and I'm sure there are guards in the league that are glad he's gone.
I'm not really trying to convince anyone of anything. I just get tired of a narrative that I know is based more on perception than actual data that takes into account more than a single number. IMO, Joe's game was/is underappreciated by many on here. He might not have been a great fit for what Fran wants to do, but that's a different discussion.
His averages look great. He had great games and clunkers. That what I am saying. I'm done!
I am ok with Connor starting if can shoot better than 35% from the 3, otherwise give me more athleticism.
Arguing over the past, especially JoeT's performance, doesn't matter for this year. So far, Ulis looks like a quality back up PG, but if his wrist was hurt, he might show more on the offensive end, which was where we need much more from him. If Bowen is able to start at PG as a true freshman, I think we will have a LOT to look forward to with him and Harding in future years.
Sandfort is primarily a 3, but could play 2 or 4 effectively with certain match ups. Who knows with Dix, but it sounds like he and the coaches expect him to play. Whether he will be 100% physically and mentally (confidence)?
Sandfort is primarily a 3, but could play 2 or 4 effectively with certain match ups. Who knows with Dix, but it sounds like he and the coaches expect him to play. Whether he will be 100% physically and mentally (confidence)?
That is an unbelievably true stat. Had to look it up to confirm because that just seems impossible. You might see that from a guy like Kent McCausland back in the day, but he was best in the nation at shooting 3's. Connor McCaffrey isn't even good at that compared to just the guys on his team.
The problem with A/TO ratio in this case is that Joe plays for a program that ranks near the top in assist rate every year. Iowa has the top 3 guys in the entire conference returning in A/TO ratio from only the conference games just to give an example. Differentiating between program strengths and player strengths will always be a conundrum for scouts.
Using per 40 minutes also doesn't factor that Iowa plays more possessions per game than the rest of the conference. Although his assist % is still high even on a per possession basis.
Amongst the guys who I'd say were either the first or second at PG for their respective B1G team last year Joe ranked bottom 5 in Turnover % both for the entire season and during conference play. Joe was really the only Iowa guard who struggled with turnovers when Iowa transitioned from a relatively soft non conference into conference play.
His disruptiveness was what won Iowa the Purdue game so I won't argue with you there.
https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.p...ar=2022&minmin=20&start=20211101&end=20220501
4th highest amongst B1G guards
Listen to the interview with him. He's further along than that, already running, jumping, just no 5-on-5 until August. That gives him 2+ months of running with the team to get in shape, and ~4 months before the B1G starts. Hopefully no setbacks and he's contributing at least a little.
I dont know why people get so concerned about losing a year of elig. You get him, possibly, for 4-5 years. He might transfer. He might get hurt again. When he’s gone someone else will take his place. No one knows how good he is at this level. KM is gone well before we used all his bullets. Most on here love recruiting news and speculation. I hope the whole team leaves after this year.
im dramatic but there’s a point there.
im dramatic but there’s a point there.
Hey he made 3
Don't forget the one he made against Alabama St. Though I have to admit it was interesting to see that he just didn't shoot from 2 (3-7 last year).
Really surprised I did not notice this just from watching the games
He shot more inside earlier in his career... wonder how much of this is by design that he is supposed to stay on the parameter so he can get back quicker on D.
I'm all for wait and see. But I am not optimistic that he will offer Iowa anything meaningful this year. And that is totally fine, given the severity of the injury he had. Let that leg heal completely. The interview you cited said he still feels like the leg is 70% when jumping off 1 leg and 90% running off 2 legs. Until he is 100% in both of those scenarios, he can't be seriously considered as an option. And even if that does happen before September, he will have not had any of the workout/improvement time that players get who aren't injured.
There is a wide gulf between being medically cleared and back to what you were before injury. It's great to see him moving to the extent that he is. It makes me optimistic that he is going to get back to the player that he was on track to be. I just don't think that will be this year.
I know that you all are locked in with Perkins and Sandford as the only option at the 2 guard but don't forget that there are 2 other 2 guards that are currently on the roster. One redshirted last year and one got some time in, if only in mop up minutes and did pretty good. Carter Kingsbury and Luc Laketa.
Now before you blast me by saying they're only walk-ons, let me remind you that it wasn't that long ago that a skinny kid from Bettendorf arrived at Iowa as a walk-on and made himself a decent scholarship player, so it can happen.
The cupboard is not bare at any position by any means. Iowa will be just fine without Josh Dix seeing meaningful minutes.
Now, I like to ask the posters on here that appear to believe this coming years Iowa team needs Josh Dix to play meaningful minutes, do you really believe he needs to play for Iowa to succeed.
I apologize for high jacking this thread on Joe T, but just because Josh Dix is medically cleared to play this upcoming season doesn't mean he'll play extended minutes nor should he, that's my opinion.
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My guess is that it was injury related as well as just recognizing there are things that he had to stop doing in order to be an effective college player. He was 28 of 69 on 2-pointers in 2018-19. That 42% on 2-'s is not good, at all. The next year that plummeted to 22 of 63, which is almost comical in how bad that is (35%). Only Bohannon and 2021-22 Ulis approached that level of inefficiency on 2-pointers in the time McCaffery has been on the roster. Bohannon could offset by being a great 3-point shooter and basically stopped taking 3's. Ulis' 34% on 2-pointers last year is a huge red flag for him being the guy this year as PG.
When you are down near 40% or below on 2's, you are just hurting the team by taking any of them. I don't think it has much to do with getting back on defense and more on recognizing where he should be taking shots. While 35% on 3's isn't amazing, it's playable with the other things Connor brings to the game.
Not that it's any of my business but BB doesn't think Sandfort is really a viable option at the 2 so you might have him confused with someone else.
Never said that. I said that Tony is the only true SG if Dix can't go. Also said at one point that the 3 guards (Ahron, Tony and Dasonte) could rotate in but I am hoping that Dix can help sme. Not sure how well the walk-ons can help as I don't know anything about them.
IMHO, Payton is close to a 4 than a 2. But he is a natural 3.
All true except...the year of eligibility is a negative variable that we can eliminate, so let's eliminate that one and cross the other bridges as we arrive.
Spot on. I see defensive problems in most of his match ups with guards. Of course, he's heady so maybe he pushes the quicker player into some clever double teams and traps.
A poor man's version of the old Spurs defense. Everything got funneled into Artis and then double teams crashed depending on which side of the floor was exposed.
A smart defender that is aware they are physically outmatched can still try to see open holes in other team's floor scheme as well.
This perception of Joe as a turnover machine is misplaced. He had a 2.33 assist to turnover ratio which was good for 35th in the country out of 350 players and 6th in the B1G. Stefanovich was 1st in the B1G but he wasn't even a PG. Pickett and Hoggard were 2nd best in the B1G at 2.46 so Joe was right there with the best.
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He may not have been a turnover machine, but the half court offense definitely stalled when he had the ball in his hands. I don't have any statistics to back this up, just an eye test.
As opposed to Ulis? The only thing I didn't like about Toussaint was his unwillingness to shoot a three. Many times Murray would have the ball & make a move, drive to the paint where the D would collapse, then kick to Toussaint on the wing for a wide open three. He would hold the ball, not shoot, & let the defense recover.
The "he turns it over too much" crowd probably thinks Tyus Jones, Darren Collison & Jose Calderon were the best PGs in NBA history.
