Who started the Russia/Ukraine conflict?

[B1GDeal]

So I guess Libya didn’t host Mercs and ISIL or anything like that. Appreciate London being satisfied with the way their relations had improved but Libya was still a bad actor. And, Russia was placing their agitators in the Donbas for decades and started to stir them up to take the region just like Crimea. Ukraine put down that action, in war people die. They didn’t specifically try to kill all Jews or all Christians or all people of color. They were putting down Russian aggression.

 

[RileyHawk]

That's just your useless opinion.
Doesn't change the fact that foreign powers picking a replacement president to be installed in unconstitutional manner after a murderous mob seizes government buildings and chases off the duly elected head of government is a coup.

coup
noun
1. a sudden, violent, and unlawful seizure of power from a government.



You've asserted "The parliament had voted OVERWHELMINGLY to approve an agreement"

Can you tell me when this vote took place? After I caught you making up shit whole cloth about that Texas Supreme Court decision I'd prefer to verify for myself from your source(s).



https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-031-67121-0
Ch.4:
The majority of a few hundred testimonies after the Maidan massacre by witnesses, primarily Maidan protesters, in the media, social media, concerning snipers in Maidan-controlled buildings and areas during the Maidan massacre, are by direct eyewitnesses and by Maidan activists and Western and Ukrainian journalists. Many of them also stated that Maidan leaders knew in advance about the massacre and that snipers were located in the Music Conservatory, Hotel Ukraina, and at least 18 other buildings in the Maidan-controlled areas and shot protesters and police from there. Several Maidan protesters testified that some of the snipers were captured by Maidan protesters but were then released by Maidan leaders (Video,2023b).


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/05/ukraine-bugged-call-catherine-ashton-urmas-paet

A leaked phone call between the EU foreign affairs chief Catherine Ashton and Estonian foreign minister Urmas Paet has revealed that the two discussed a conspiracy theory that blamed the killing of civilian protesters in the Ukrainian capital, Kiev, on the opposition rather than the ousted government.

The 11-minute conversation was posted on YouTube – it is the second time in a month that telephone calls between western diplomats discussing Ukraine have been bugged.

In the call, Paet said he had been told snipers responsible for killing police and civilians in Kiev last month were protest movement provocateurs rather than supporters of then-president Viktor Yanukovych. Ashton responds: "I didn't know … Gosh."



https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-031-67121-0
Ch.4:
Oleh Tiahnybok, who headed this far-right party and was one of the leaders of the Maidan, said that when he asked that “we have four victims, why is there no reaction?” the Western representative responded that “this is not enough” and that “we will be able to react when there are 100 victims” (Braty, 2017, 94).Ruslan Koshulynsky, deputy leader of the Svoboda Party and the deputy head of the Ukrainian parliament, made similar statement concerning the discussion of this issue:

"They talked about the first deaths - well, 5, 20... 100? When will the authorities be guilty? In the end, they reached the figure of one hundred. There was no pressure. There were no sanctions. They waited until a mass murder. And if there is a mass murder in the country - the authorities are to blame, because they crossed the line, the authorities cannot allow mass murders." (Braty, 2017, 94)

...

At least 10 Maidan politicians and activists publicly testified that they witnessed the involvement of specific top Maidan leaders from oligarchic parties and far-right organizations in the massacre, such as their advance knowledge of the massacre, deployment of snipers, evacuation of snipers who were captured by Maidan protesters, and cover-up of such snipers. They include members of the Maidan and Right Sector leadership, the Maidan Self-Defense commanders, Right Sector activists, and other Maidan activists. For example, David Zhvania, who headed a parliamentary committee at the time of the massacre and was a member of the Maidan leadership, stated that the Maidan leaders, whom he named in his videos, “arranged” the Maidan massacre, that they wanted to seize power in Ukraine. He said that the Maidan opposition leaders knew in advance about the Maidan massacre and called their members of the parliament before the massacre not to go to the Maidan so that they would not be killed.



Where in their constitution? I think you're just making that up.
They have a process for removal of the president, it wasn't followed.
The alternative isn't passing a resolution with a smaller majority than is constitutionally stipulated for removal of the executive to achieve the same.



If 60 Senators voted to remove Biden after a murderous mob took over buildings in DC and surrounded the White House, would you consider that legal and proper under our Constitution?
Factor in a foreign power egging on the protests, and exposed for selecting the actual puppet to be installed as president next.
Would you call that a coup?

You're getting your ass kicked. Again.

BTW - you do quote a LOT of pro-Russia propaganda. I wonder why?

 

[seminole97]

So I guess Libya didn’t host Mercs and ISIL or anything like that.

I hate to be the one to break this to you, but NATO fought on the side of ISIL in Libya.
You have to remember, people like Jake Sullivan saw AQ as “on our side” during this time.

Appreciate London being satisfied with the way their relations had improved but Libya was still a bad actor.

Evidence? And I don’t meet going back 7 presidencies to last century either.
Something from this millennia to demonstrate your point.

And, Russia was placing their agitators in the Donbas for decades and started to stir them up to take the region just like Crimea.

You need to look at some census data for Crimea, so you can understand it’s been majority ethnic Russian (never more than a quarter Ukrainian) since Stalin sent the Tartars to Siberia.
Donbas is likewise predominantly ethnic Russia (which is why it voted so overwhelmingly for the Russia aligned candidate, and rebelled when he was overthrown in a U.S. organized coup).

Ukraine put down that action, in war people die. They didn’t specifically try to kill all Jews or all Christians or all people of color. They were putting down Russian aggression.

How much do you know about the Right Sector, and the ethnic Ukrainian nationalists movements that got into power after the coup? You’re dismissing how this is seen by the people on the ground as a war between ethnic groups. There’s a reason the Democrats put language in our appropriations to make sure we weren’t sending lethal aid to neo-nazi outfits like the Azov battalion.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/hou...ps-be-prosecuted-as-international-terrorists/

House Democrats Just Demanded These Neo-Nazi Groups Be Prosecuted as International Terrorists​

By Tess Owen
October 16, 2019

In response to the growing global threat of white nationalist terror, House Democrats are calling on the U.S. State Department to add three international far-right groups to its list of “Foreign Terror Organizations.”
…
On Wednesday, New York Rep. Max Rose, who chairs the counterterrorism subcommittee, submitted a letter to the State Department, co-signed by 39 members of Congress. It urged the department to designate Azov Battalion (a far-right paramilitary regiment in Ukraine), National Action (a neo-Nazi group based in the U.K.), and Nordic Resistance Movement (a neo-Nazi network from Scandinavia) as terrorist organizations.
…
And as Rose’s letter points out, the government is well aware of Azov’s extremist leanings: In March 2018, Congress added a provision to its spending bill that barred the U.S. from arming Azov in the fight against Russian-backed separatists in Ukraine because of its ties to neo-Nazis.


Serbs fought to put down the Kosovar Muslim militants when they made their bid for independence, and people died. NATO decided to intervene in that conflict (Clinton attacking beyond the stipulations of the War Powers Resolution without any Congressional authorization for his actions, but that’s an aside).
It’s impossible for me to lose sight of the fact what came to pass was exactly what Ambassador Burns warned in 2008. His intel and prescience were spot on. We’re left to decide, did the admin ignore him, or did they push ahead expecting the outcome they were warned about.
I think the neocons wanted Russia dragged into a war, and took the deliberate steps Merkel and others warned would lead to war.

 

[B1GDeal]

I hate to be the one to break this to you, but NATO fought on the side of ISIL in Libya.
You have to remember, people like Jake Sullivan saw AQ as “on our side” during this time.



Evidence? And I don’t meet going back 7 presidencies to last century either.
Something from this millennia to demonstrate your point.



You need to look at some census data for Crimea, so you can understand it’s been majority ethnic Russian (never more than a quarter Ukrainian) since Stalin sent the Tartars to Siberia.
Donbas is likewise predominantly ethnic Russia (which is why it voted so overwhelmingly for the Russia aligned candidate, and rebelled when he was overthrown in a U.S. organized coup).



How much do you know about the Right Sector, and the ethnic Ukrainian nationalists movements that got into power after the coup? You’re dismissing how this is seen by the people on the ground as a war between ethnic groups. There’s a reason the Democrats put language in our appropriations to make sure we weren’t sending lethal aid to neo-nazi outfits like the Azov battalion.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/hou...ps-be-prosecuted-as-international-terrorists/

House Democrats Just Demanded These Neo-Nazi Groups Be Prosecuted as International Terrorists​

By Tess Owen
October 16, 2019

In response to the growing global threat of white nationalist terror, House Democrats are calling on the U.S. State Department to add three international far-right groups to its list of “Foreign Terror Organizations.”
…
On Wednesday, New York Rep. Max Rose, who chairs the counterterrorism subcommittee, submitted a letter to the State Department, co-signed by 39 members of Congress. It urged the department to designate Azov Battalion (a far-right paramilitary regiment in Ukraine), National Action (a neo-Nazi group based in the U.K.), and Nordic Resistance Movement (a neo-Nazi network from Scandinavia) as terrorist organizations.
…
And as Rose’s letter points out, the government is well aware of Azov’s extremist leanings: In March 2018, Congress added a provision to its spending bill that barred the U.S. from arming Azov in the fight against Russian-backed separatists in Ukraine because of its ties to neo-Nazis.


Serbs fought to put down the Kosovar Muslim militants when they made their bid for independence, and people died. NATO decided to intervene in that conflict (Clinton attacking beyond the stipulations of the War Powers Resolution without any Congressional authorization for his actions, but that’s an aside).
It’s impossible for me to lose sight of the fact what came to pass was exactly what Ambassador Burns warned in 2008. His intel and prescience were spot on. We’re left to decide, did the admin ignore him, or did they push ahead expecting the outcome they were warned about.
I think the neocons wanted Russia dragged into a war, and took the deliberate steps Merkel and others warned would lead to war.

Comrade, you seem to know it all and hate the US. Like the Russians who moved to Ukraine… you should all go back to Russia, unless of course you are already there now.

 

[seminole97]

Comrade, you seem to know it all and hate the US. Like the Russians who moved to Ukraine… you should all go back to Russia, unless of course you are already there now.

I do not hate the U.S. at all, because I can easily distinguish between the US and neocon foreign policy.

To me the US is principles expressed in the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights. My sense of American nationalism is to those ideals, not ‘my country right or wrong’.

I can hate the Vietnam war without hating America, can’t you?