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Who started the Russia/Ukraine conflict?

Who started the war?

  • Russia started the war and Putin is a dictator.

  • Ukraine started the war and Zelensky is a dictator.

  • Russia started the war and Putin was legitimately elected.

  • Ukraine started the war and Zelensky was legitimately elected.

  • Other, I'll explain in the comments.


Results are only viewable after voting.
It is not always clear who started a fight. In this situation, Ukraine did some provoking, and Russia attacked. Is Ukraine wrong for trying to join NATO when they know this could prompt Russia to attack? Is Russia wrong for trying to bring people they consider Russian back into Russia? I don't think this is as black and white as you try to make it.

Lets pretend 2 people get in a fight, person 1 was talking shit to person 2 by insulting and threatening his family. Person 2 decides to punch person 1 in the face. Who started this fight?
If someone calls your mom a slutty whore who likes to f*ck goats and you attack them sending them to the hospital or worse who is liable for the violence? Who is going to jail?

Speaking words is not in the same universe of badness as attacking and killing innocent people.

Most people who aren’t the son of a goat f*cker are smart enough to know that sticks and stones will break your bones but words will never hurt you little fella.
 
If someone calls your mom a slutty whore who likes to f*ck goats and you attack them sending them to the hospital or worse who is liable for the violence? Who is going to jail?

Speaking words is not in the same universe of badness as attacking and killing innocent people.

Most people who aren’t the son of a goat f*cker are smart enough to know that sticks and stones will break your bones but words will never hurt you little fella.
Why do dems love censorship so much then? You better notify Germany and UK of this news. They are arresting people left and right.

Here are a few quotes from the article.
- John Kerry called the First Amendment a major block to shutting down fringe viewpoints that produce misinformation
- Hillary Clinton wants to make the spread of disinformation a crime.
- CBS News has faced criticism for suggesting that free speech contributed to the Holocaust and for praising Germany's strict internet speech laws.
 
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Why do dems love censorship so much then? You better notify Germany and UK of this news. They are arresting people left and right.

Here are a few quotes from the article.
- John Kerry called the First Amendment a major block to shutting down fringe viewpoints that produce misinformation
- Hillary Clinton wants to make the spread of disinformation a crime.
- CBS News has faced criticism for suggesting that free speech contributed to the Holocaust and for praising Germany's strict internet speech laws.
Focus.
 
Why do dems love censorship so much then? You better notify Germany and UK of this news. They are arresting people left and right.

Here are a few quotes from the article.
- John Kerry called the First Amendment a major block to shutting down fringe viewpoints that produce misinformation
- Hillary Clinton wants to make the spread of disinformation a crime.
- CBS News has faced criticism for suggesting that free speech contributed to the Holocaust and for praising Germany's strict internet speech laws.
Lol - just like you to link an opinion article as factual.
 
I can’t believe I’m trying to argue with stupid. I’ll just quit… it’s clear there is no point. But, in closing Russia attacked Ukraine not once, but twice. Russia attacked them… not the other way around. But you keep making excuses for the Russians and your boy Trump. Just know you are on the wrong end of this one. But… carry on.
 
I can’t believe I’m trying to argue with stupid. I’ll just quit… it’s clear there is no point. But, in closing Russia attacked Ukraine not once, but twice. Russia attacked them… not the other way around. But you keep making excuses for the Russians and your boy Trump. Just know you are on the wrong end of this one. But… carry on.
It's almost like he isn't serious.
 
Says who?

Read this article in Vox. It lays out Putins motives while counterbalancing some western views. This article was written 1 day before Putin attacked Ukraine.

From the article:
"Yet the speech helps shed light on a critical aspect of the crisis: why Putin is doing this. Fail to understand the sense of historical grievance, and the way that it shapes his view of the “threat” from Ukraine, and you fail to understand why he’s willing to play such a high-stakes game today.
Any solution to the crisis needs to take his worldview seriously — and figure out what, exactly, can be done to address it."

Another link to Rueters
"A video of Russian President Vladimir Putin saying that Ukraine joining the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) would make a nuclear conflict more likely was filmed in February 2022 before Russia’s ongoing invasion of Ukraine."

Nothing here makes what you said true.
 
Finland joined NATO.

Is Russia "OK" to attack them, too?
Russia threw out a lot of threats toward Finland about joining NATO as well including military attacks. Finland joined NATO. What did Russia do - folded.

Putin wanted no part of a NATO war retaliation.
 
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I'm sure many of you don't like Scott Ritter, but he lays out a different reality on Russia Ukraine than what most on the left believe.

 
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Russia doesn't get a vote on if Ukraine gets NATO membership as they are not a member.

The Cuban missile crisis was over missles and not membership in a defense organization.

Ukraine desired NATO membership so Russia wouldn't invade with tanks.

Was Ukraine proven correct in their desire that without NATO membership, Russia would not be deterred enough to ultimately send tanks?

Is it morally wrong for NATO to exist at all when Russia rolls tanks into bordering sovereign nations with alarming frequency?

Can any country bordering Russia be blamed for desiring Russia not to send tanks or little green men?

Others can play facts and questions too.
BOTH the Cuban Missile Crisis and the Ukraine war were about weapons ending up being stationed on a country's border who did not want them.
 
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They NEVER would have let them join NATO to begin with.......that is the whole point. Just the simple act of them saying they wanted in set that idiot Putin off.
And, interestingly, Putin had similar bluster when Finland was in the process of joining. The fear was letting them join would set off a war. Guess what - it didn't. Putin wants no part of NATO. His wet dream would be to get the US to withdraw from it and Trump just might make that orgasm happen.
 
And, interestingly, Putin had similar bluster when Finland was in the process of joining. The fear was letting them join would set off a war. Guess what - it didn't. Putin wants no part of NATO. His wet dream would be to get the US to withdraw from it and Trump just might make that orgasm happen.
You seriously think Finland is the same to Russia as Ukraine?
 
They NEVER would have let them join NATO to begin with.......that is the whole point. Just the simple act of them saying they wanted in set that idiot Putin off.
That's the point. They hadn't joined NATO and Russia still attacked them. Russia doesn't keep their word.
 
He still makes more sense than you, so what does that say about you?
You know he went to prison for pedophilia stuff right. He exposed himself to a police officer pretending to be a 15 year old girl.

He is a sick f*ck, why should we ever listen to anything a pedophile should say?

What does it say about you that you listen to sick f*cks like this?
 
You know he went to prison for pedophilia stuff right. He exposed himself to a police officer pretending to be a 15 year old girl.

He is a sick f*ck, why should we ever listen to anything a pedophile should say?

What does it say about you that you listen to sick f*cks like this?
None of that changes whether he is right about Ukraine.
 
None of that changes whether he is right about Ukraine.
It absolutely calls into question his judgement. Anyone that doesn’t have the common judgement to know it is wrong to masturbate in front of a 15 year old shouldn’t be listed to on any topic ever. I don’t care if this prick agrees with everything I believe, he still shouldn’t be listened to.

This is not hard.
 
183-5 on if Russia or Ukraine started the war to put in perspective how much the American Kremlin are stepping into it going so blatantly all in with Russia.
 
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