Worst Iowa MBB in years?

[tweeterhawk]

We haven’t seen this level of weakness and poor play since at least the Lick years. But at least his teams had a few players who could play.

Fran appears to have a team full of high schoolers.

Leistikow: Cy-Hawk blowout adds to Iowa's adversity; 'We're dealing with some stuff'

A 90-65 loss at Iowa State was filled with red flags for Iowa's play, continuing a tough week emotionally for the Hawkeye players.

www.hawkcentral.com

 

[markfromj]

This post will not age well.

 

[tweeterhawk]

This post will not age well.

AMES − Through nine games, Fran McCaffery’s 14th Iowa basketball team has been put to the test against four opponents that statistically play defense in the upper 3.5% of teams in Division I basketball.

The Hawkeyes have shown their youth in those games, all losses, including Thursday’s 90-65 drubbing at Iowa State.

The Cyclones (7-2) toyed with their visiting in-state rival from start to finish, handing Iowa (5-4) its most-lopsided Cy-Hawk loss and detailing a recipe for a potentially difficult season ahead.

Poor interior defense? Check. Though that’s hardly new. Iowa State owned an unbelievable 30-2 edge on points in the paint in the lopsided first half.

Poor ball-handling in a tough environment? Check. Iowa committed an uncharacteristic 12 first-half turnovers and a season-high 19 for the game. It scored on only seven of its first 30 possessions. When a McCaffery offense is out of sorts, that's a major uh-oh.

Poor composure? Check. The student sections at Hilton Coliseum were filled 90 minutes before tip-off and hounded the Hawkeyes all night with their chants. (Give them credit for the "you need Caitlin" razz in the final minutes.) In his first career start, Josh Dix had trouble simply bringing the ball up the floor.

Iowa’s shot selection for the first 20 minutes was pretty much this: Heave a challenged 3-pointer and hope it falls.

“We didn’t get enough movement, whether it be ball movement or people movement,” McCaffery said. “We have to do more screening, more cutting, more penetration. We just kind of moved it side to side and somebody shot it at the end of the clock. We need more activity to challenge the defense in a better way.”

Thursday’s outcome was unsettling, especially on the heels of an 87-68 loss at No. 3 Purdue. The Hawkeyes trailed by as many as 35 in that game; they trailed by as many as 32 in this one.

“We’re getting down so bad in games, and it’s hard to shoot when you’re down and everybody’s screaming at you,” said Iowa’s Payton Sandfort, who scored 14 points in the first half and zero in the second. “We’ve got to come out with more fight. We’ve got to make it more of a back-and-forth game.”

None of this means Iowa will definitively be a terrible and unwatchable team this season.

But this week sure has the vibe of that first big snowstorm and cold snap in December that sets the tone for a long winter ahead...

TRANSLATION: This is a baaad team. And not in a good way.

 

[amahawk]

We haven’t seen this level of weakness and poor play since at least the Lick years. But at least his teams had a few players who could play.

Fran appears to have a team full of high schoolers.

Leistikow: Cy-Hawk blowout adds to Iowa's adversity; 'We're dealing with some stuff'

A 90-65 loss at Iowa State was filled with red flags for Iowa's play, continuing a tough week emotionally for the Hawkeye players.

www.hawkcentral.com

I watched the ISU game. Lickliters teams would have beaten that Iowa team.

 

[QChawks]

If this team finishes with a winning record it will be a miracle

 

[Underscore2]

This post will not age well.

Some future bump potential for sure.

 

[ISUBryceC]

Just my opinion but I take nothing away from the win for Iowa State. Absolute ole defense by Iowa. I do think this is the worst Iowa team talent wise in quite a while.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

This is not a strong team on paper, but playing even worse that what's on the paper.

 

[Legs94]

 

[MikeyHawk]

KemPom defense rating is currently 149, which is pretty much the worst of the Power conferences

2018, the KenPom defense rating was 242 and finished 14-19. Seems like this team will be better than that

 

[Steamboat529529]

After the Creighton loss I was encouraged. The Purude loss, well, that's a tough place to play and they are good. Getting boatraced by a bubble type Iowa State team in a rivalry game. Yikes. That’s concerning.

 

[drh1150]

Shouldn't evaluations be done post season?
It's just December.
This may be a down year but only time will tell.

 

[Steamboat529529]

Shouldn't evaluations be done post season?
It's just December.
This may be a down year but only time will tell.

Not if you are the coaching staff deciding who should start or play certain minutes.

 

[RocknRollface]

So far this looks nearly identical to the last two seasons up to this point.

Anyone remember getting run out of Ames two years ago with Keegan and Kris on the team?

Anyone remember last year at Purdue?

Last year against Duke?

Scroll back and read people's thoughts on those outcomes, it's identical to the current mood.

No talent, soft, too many white guys, can't replace this guy, can't replace that guy, ect ect. Same thing just about every year at this time.

You can find this almost identical discussion the last two years and 3 out of the last 4.

This team will most likely be better than last years team by late January because there's actually more talent.

I'm ready for Fran to leave too but things are usually not as good or as bad as you think with Fran.

 

[HawkMachine]

Sounds like it’s a good thing I’m not a big basketball fan.

I do like watching Clark though ( who doesn’t).

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

Just my opinion but I take nothing away from the win for Iowa State. Absolute ole defense by Iowa. I do think this is the worst Iowa team talent wise in quite a while.

I sure hope so.

I’m a casual basketball fan and that game Thursday looked like Hickory High playing Duke.

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

This team will most likely be better than last years team by late January because there's actually more talent.

I’m not saying you’re wrong with the other points, but I have to question this paragraph. Last year’s team had Kris Murray, right? And the Rebraca kid was pretty good too, correct?

I don’t see anyone on Iowa’s roster this year who can replace those two’s productivity. Owen Freeman seems to have the potential to be as good if not better than Rebraca someday, but that’s a lot for Freeman to have to live ip to as a true freshman. I don’t see anyone with the scoring potential of Kris Murray.

What am I missing?

 

[intrepodor]

I watched the ISU game. Lickliters teams would have beaten that Iowa team.

Ouch

 

[StormHawk42]

The ‘17-‘18 team was worse IMO. But not sure if that says much.

 

[RocknRollface]

I’m not saying you’re wrong with the other points, but I have to question this paragraph. Last year’s team had Kris Murray, right? And the Rebraca kid was pretty good too, correct?

I don’t see anyone on Iowa’s roster this year who can replace those two’s productivity. Owen Freeman seems to have the potential to be as good if not better than Rebraca someday, but that’s a lot for Freeman to have to live ip to as a true freshman. I don’t see anyone with the scoring potential of Kris Murray.

What am I missing?

Freeman is already better than Rebracca. His metrics are excellent.

I'd say the main thing people are missing is perspective.

Last year at this time the talk was all about how Kris was no where near Keegan, the year before that it was how Keegan was no Garza, two years before that is was that Garza was no Tyler Cook and every single year its "too many white guys"

The only year we haven't had this same discussion was Garzas senior year and it turned out that year was really no different than the ones before and after.

Players are going to get better the same way they do every single year. It's early and December.

 

[AEG82]

We'll probably be fine depending on what a person's expectations are going in. We'll finish mid-standings in the B1G and be a fringe NCAA team. If we make it, we'll bow out very early and look on to next year. The difference for people this year is we don't have a bonafide star like we've had the last five years so people are probably more worried than in the recent past.

Our only problem is the ceiling Fran has repeatedly shown to us. He'll never get over that hill and the natives will get more and more restless with each passing year.

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

Freeman is already better than Rebracca. His metrics are excellent.

I'd say the main thing people are missing is perspective.

Last year at this time the talk was all about how Kris was no where near Keegan, the year before that it was how Keegan was no Garza, two years before that is was that Garza was no Tyler Cook and every single year its "too many white guys"

The only year we haven't had this same discussion was Garzas senior year and it turned out that year was really no different than the ones before and after.

Players are going to get better the same way they do every single year. It's early and December.

I didn’t realize Freeman was already better than Rebraca. That’s pretty impressive to me.

I’m guessing you’re right. Fran is consistent but naturally fans get bored with the same product and want something different.

 

[tweeterhawk]

Shouldn't evaluations be done post season?
It's just December.
This may be a down year but only time will tell.

OK Kirk.

 

[Hendy hawk]

The Horror.
Dum and Glume, Dume and Glume.

 

[tweeterhawk]

AMES − Through nine games, Fran McCaffery’s 14th Iowa basketball team has been put to the test against four opponents that statistically play defense in the upper 3.5% of teams in Division I basketball.

The Hawkeyes have shown their youth in those games, all losses, including Thursday’s 90-65 drubbing at Iowa State.

The Cyclones (7-2) toyed with their visiting in-state rival from start to finish, handing Iowa (5-4) its most-lopsided Cy-Hawk loss and detailing a recipe for a potentially difficult season ahead.

Poor interior defense? Check. Though that’s hardly new. Iowa State owned an unbelievable 30-2 edge on points in the paint in the lopsided first half.

Poor ball-handling in a tough environment? Check. Iowa committed an uncharacteristic 12 first-half turnovers and a season-high 19 for the game. It scored on only seven of its first 30 possessions. When a McCaffery offense is out of sorts, that's a major uh-oh.

Poor composure? Check. The student sections at Hilton Coliseum were filled 90 minutes before tip-off and hounded the Hawkeyes all night with their chants. (Give them credit for the "you need Caitlin" razz in the final minutes.) In his first career start, Josh Dix had trouble simply bringing the ball up the floor.

Iowa’s shot selection for the first 20 minutes was pretty much this: Heave a challenged 3-pointer and hope it falls.

“We didn’t get enough movement, whether it be ball movement or people movement,” McCaffery said. “We have to do more screening, more cutting, more penetration. We just kind of moved it side to side and somebody shot it at the end of the clock. We need more activity to challenge the defense in a better way.”

Thursday’s outcome was unsettling, especially on the heels of an 87-68 loss at No. 3 Purdue. The Hawkeyes trailed by as many as 35 in that game; they trailed by as many as 32 in this one.

“We’re getting down so bad in games, and it’s hard to shoot when you’re down and everybody’s screaming at you,” said Iowa’s Payton Sandfort, who scored 14 points in the first half and zero in the second. “We’ve got to come out with more fight. We’ve got to make it more of a back-and-forth game.”

None of this means Iowa will definitively be a terrible and unwatchable team this season.

But this week sure has the vibe of that first big snowstorm and cold snap in December that sets the tone for a long winter ahead...

TRANSLATION: This is a baaad team. And not in a good way.

The figures mentioned by Leistikow and I liberally quoted here are brutal, just brutal. These were not off-nights for shooting. Poor interior defense, poor ball-handling and movement, inability to create space for an open shot, lack of composure — those are all systemic and typical of Fran McCaffrey-coached teams.

 

[SDHawkDoc]

So far this looks nearly identical to the last two seasons up to this point.

Anyone remember getting run out of Ames two years ago with Keegan and Kris on the team?

Anyone remember last year at Purdue?

Last year against Duke?

Scroll back and read people's thoughts on those outcomes, it's identical to the current mood.

No talent, soft, too many white guys, can't replace this guy, can't replace that guy, ect ect. Same thing just about every year at this time.

You can find this almost identical discussion the last two years and 3 out of the last 4.

This team will most likely be better than last years team by late January because there's actually more talent.

I'm ready for Fran to leave too but things are usually not as good or as bad as you think with Fran.

This I agree with.
Fran's teams frequently have a run in January-early February when you think they've actually turned the corner only to see them fall apart when it really counts comes NCAA tourney time.
I do disagree as to the talent level on this team. Time will tell with some of the younger players. But the overall talent level of the entire roster is marginal even when compared to their relatively mediocre B1G competition. I'm not as big a fan of Krikke as some. He can clearly score on offense. But he is probably the worst post defender and on the boards as they've had in some time and that's saying something.

 

[RocknRollface]

I didn’t realize Freeman was already better than Rebraca. That’s pretty impressive to me.

I’m guessing you’re right. Fran is consistent but naturally fans get bored with the same product and want something different.

I think Freeman is already the second best big Fran has had besides Garza and he's way better than Garza at the same point in their careers.

The quickest way this team gets better is by giving Freeman as many minutes as fouls allow with Krikke playing less at the 5.

Sandfort and Perkins need to even out their play into consistency and Patrick's minutes need to continue to drop.

All the freshman and sophomore will continue to get better as the year goes on. That's where most of the talent is on this team.

 

[LarryMullenJr.]

A solid regular season, the tournament, and an occasional sweet 16. I think that’s what most folks desire and should realistically expect.
Part three ain’t gonna happen under Fran.

 

[HawkLogic]

So far this looks nearly identical to the last two seasons up to this point.

Anyone remember getting run out of Ames two years ago with Keegan and Kris on the team?

Anyone remember last year at Purdue?

Last year against Duke?

Scroll back and read people's thoughts on those outcomes, it's identical to the current mood.

No talent, soft, too many white guys, can't replace this guy, can't replace that guy, ect ect. Same thing just about every year at this time.

You can find this almost identical discussion the last two years and 3 out of the last 4.

This team will most likely be better than last years team by late January because there's actually more talent.

I'm ready for Fran to leave too but things are usually not as good or as bad as you think with Fran.

Fran's teams getting blown out by someone that plays defense is not new.

Not having either Keegan or Kris is a big difference. Post defense much worse. I don't think this team will be better than last year's team but that is why it is a discussion board.

 

[RocknRollface]

Fran's teams getting blown out by someone that plays defense is not new.

Not having either Keegan or Kris is a big difference. Post defense much worse. I don't think this team will be better than last year's team but that is why it is a discussion board.

We'll see.

Obviously that team 2 years ago had a higher upside but it ended up being nothing.

Last years team wasn't that great so not that hard to match 0-1 tournament games.

Post defense is probably the best it's ever been under Fran when Freeman is at the 5 and the worst it's ever been when Krikke is at the 5 so hopefully Fran is able to exercise a tiny amount of common sense there.

 

[LarryMullenJr.]

Many times a team without “a true star” can be the best teams. They play as a unit and are—as they say—the whole is better than the sum of the parts.
This unit may end up that way but they’re a LONG ways from that.

 

[BubsFinn]

This post will not age well.

I sure hope you're right, but at this moment they look pretty bad.

 

[Igor Stravinsky10]

Many times a team without “a true star” can be the best teams. They play as a unit and are—as they say—the whole is better than the sum of the parts.
This unit may end up that way but they’re a LONG ways from that.

The 86-87 Hawkeyes are a good example of this (sorry to bring up bad memories, I'm still not over that loss). Marble, Horton, Armstrong, Gamble, Lohaus was an AMAZING starting 5. Then bring in Moe, Lorenzen, Wright, Jones, Reaves off the bench. If you had to pick a "true star" out of this group, probably Marble, but any given night it could have been anyone of these guys being the star.

 

[DewHawk]

Many times a team without “a true star” can be the best teams. They play as a unit and are—as they say—the whole is better than the sum of the parts.
This unit may end up that way but they’re a LONG ways from that.

I defintely agree with this, but not with PM playing more than 10 minutes.

 

[tweeterhawk]

Embarrassing basketball. Pathetic.

 

[goodbyebobby]

What a joke.

I'm surprised Patrick is not coach when Fran is ejected.

 

[Legs94]

Not even mad anymore, just ready for change.

 

[RocknRollface]

Not even mad anymore, just ready for change.

Yeah, when Fran came out with that four forward starting lineup I realized we aren't making any serious efforts to get better this year.

This looks like Dady and son's feel good farewell year.

 

[HawkLogic]

We'll see.

Obviously that team 2 years ago had a higher upside but it ended up being nothing.

Last years team wasn't that great so not that hard to match 0-1 tournament games.

Post defense is probably the best it's ever been under Fran when Freeman is at the 5 and the worst it's ever been when Krikke is at the 5 so hopefully Fran is able to exercise a tiny amount of common sense there.

You've seen the two lineups that Fran has come up with that had Freeman starting---both were fundamentally flawed in ball handling and defense.

ISU: Freeman, Krikke, PMAC, Sandfort, Dix, Perkins
Michigan: Freeman, Krikke, PMAC, Sandfort Perkins.


Fran started CMAC over Keegan Murray every game in Keegans Freshman year....Keegan could have been a difference maker in that team. Kris didn't get a chance to play because PMAC was ahead of him.

You can't count on Fran to make the right decision because he will always choose offense over defense and
its been about maximizing his boys playing time for last 5 years.

 

[RocknRollface]

You've seen the two lineups that Fran has come up with that had Freeman starting---both were fundamentally flawed in ball handling and defense.

ISU: Freeman, Krikke, PMAC, Sandfort, Dix, Perkins
Michigan: Freeman, Krikke, PMAC, Sandfort Perkins.


Fran started CMAC over Keegan Murray every game in Keegans Freshman year....Keegan could have been a difference maker in that team. Kris didn't get a chance to play because PMAC was ahead of him.

You can't count on Fran to make the right decision because he will always choose offense over defense and
its been about maximizing his boys playing time for last 5 years.

I agree, I'm downgrading my opinion of the upside of this team after today.

Frans clearly not going to do the right things.

Granted, any time Iowa only makes one 3pt shot in the first 38 minutes of a game it will always be ugly but Fran isn't serious about winning at this point.

He's just in it for his kid.

You cannot win games with Sandfort, Patrick and Krikke on the floor together.