Watch the first half of Purdue at Iowa and the Maryland game. See how much difficulty Jok has getting a shot when he is the focus of the other team's defense. Now go watch tape of any game the last half of Gaten's Sr year and watch him draining 3's under the same if not more intense D. He was uncanny at getting his shot off under pressure. I also have seen 3 break aways the last 3 games dribbled off feet, toes and legs and have to question the "better handles" for Jok. I seldom see him dribbling so not sure where that comment comes from. Jok is a great spot up shooter. I suspect the answer is that each was better for the team they were on.
Would you rather have a senior Matt Gatens or Jr. Jok ?
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On this team, Jok. I believe MG/Uthoff/Woody are good leaders off the court, and that's the role you'd need from Gatens if it wasn't there. Jok plays with the little bit of reckless abandon you need sometimes to hit the open shot without a second thought.
This comparison is not really fair to Matt as he had to spend half his college career playing for the worst head coach in Iowa's history.
Jok had 14 at Maryland against one of the best teams in the nation on their court while being hounded all night. I'll take Pete
Was this while they were "hounding" Uthoff the entire game? As I said before, of course since that was last week, we would all naturally take Jok, our brains only go back so far.
Nothing wrong with that, but it isn't what you said. You based your opinion off Jok being hounded in that game, which he wasn't, Uthoff was.
This thread is an absolute joke. The defensive ability of the two players is only mentioned 5 times and 2 of them gave the nod to Jok on D. That is beyond laughable and truly unbelievable.
Gatens developed into a very good defender. He turned into a good individual defender and an excellent team defender.
Jok is still a liability on D folks. Yes he is good in the passing lanes. But steals are one of the most overrated stats in the game. Often he takes himself out of position when he doesn't get the steal, which usually leads to a layup or wide open 3. He doesn't keep the ball in front of him well and his team D is lazy.
Jok is not more athletic than Gatens. Neither is a great athlete, but Gatens was in far better shape than Jok
Jok does not have better handles than Gatens. Neither has very good handles, but Gatens strength and build gave him a better drive-game than Jok.
Better passer=Gatens. Jok still makes very sloppy turnovers.
Better rebounder=Gatens. Jok gave up 2 huge offensive boardss to Maryland late in the game by just not being physical.
Jok is a better pure shooter but not by much. As has been mentioned, the current system and talent around him gives Jok a better chance to be an explosive scorer.
Better leader=Gatens.
Better FT shooter=Gatens.
Better screener=Gatens.
Better game in the paint=Gatens.
I like Jok and respect the improvements he's made. This team needs every point that he has given them and he is a very important player. But he remains one of the least versatile players I've ever seen. Great spot up shooter and great mid-range pull-up shooter. Very weak drive-game. Sloppy turnovers. Defensive liability. He won't even foul a guy to prevent layups. Maybe Fran has instructed him to stay out of foul trouble but I've never seen anything like it. Watch the Dayton tape and try to refrain from vomiting. Again, not to say that he isn't working hard to improve these deficiencies, or that he isn't a very valuable player. But at this point, Jok almost needs to score 20 to make up for the other things he does that hurt the team.
I just don't know what many of you are watching
Gatens developed into a very good defender. He turned into a good individual defender and an excellent team defender.
Jok is still a liability on D folks. Yes he is good in the passing lanes. But steals are one of the most overrated stats in the game. Often he takes himself out of position when he doesn't get the steal, which usually leads to a layup or wide open 3. He doesn't keep the ball in front of him well and his team D is lazy.
Jok is not more athletic than Gatens. Neither is a great athlete, but Gatens was in far better shape than Jok
Jok does not have better handles than Gatens. Neither has very good handles, but Gatens strength and build gave him a better drive-game than Jok.
Better passer=Gatens. Jok still makes very sloppy turnovers.
Better rebounder=Gatens. Jok gave up 2 huge offensive boardss to Maryland late in the game by just not being physical.
Jok is a better pure shooter but not by much. As has been mentioned, the current system and talent around him gives Jok a better chance to be an explosive scorer.
Better leader=Gatens.
Better FT shooter=Gatens.
Better screener=Gatens.
Better game in the paint=Gatens.
I like Jok and respect the improvements he's made. This team needs every point that he has given them and he is a very important player. But he remains one of the least versatile players I've ever seen. Great spot up shooter and great mid-range pull-up shooter. Very weak drive-game. Sloppy turnovers. Defensive liability. He won't even foul a guy to prevent layups. Maybe Fran has instructed him to stay out of foul trouble but I've never seen anything like it. Watch the Dayton tape and try to refrain from vomiting. Again, not to say that he isn't working hard to improve these deficiencies, or that he isn't a very valuable player. But at this point, Jok almost needs to score 20 to make up for the other things he does that hurt the team.
I just don't know what many of you are watching
17.6 points/game, 3.7 rebounds/game, 47 fg% and 44% 3 point % for Jok in Big Ten play. That's Big Ten play. Don't underestimate what he's doing right now. And that's against the hard part of Iowa's schedule. Offensively Jok and Gatens aren't even close. You want to make the defensive argument that Gatens is better that's fine, I disagree but there's an argument to be made. Offensively though it's not really close if you ask me. That's why the op had to put in Gatens when he was on his hottest streak. Take the whole year and almost everyone on here is taking Jok. Gatens had a magical 2nd half of his senior year but it's equal if not less then what Jok is doing to start his 9 game Big Ten streak this year. Those are ridiculous numbers he's putting up. You can make all the excuse you want but he's getting it done. Jok has a quicker release then Gatens. Gets his shot off much easier. Needs less room to get his shot off then Gatens. At this level those are huge advantages to Jok. Jok is better at getting open. Better at getting open with screens. Has a huge advantage in the midrange game. The driving to the basket comment about Gatens, are you kidding me? I'll take Gesell driving over Gatens. How many shots did Gatens get blocked driving to the basket? Jok is much better at driving and getting to the foul line. Now your right Gatens was a much better passer. Hopefully Jok can improve on that next year. Rebounding is close if you ask me. Gatens was better individually but Jok is a really good at helping out the bigs rebound and offensive rebounder.
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Alford was an average pro??? Alford lasted only 4 years in the pros and scored less than 400 total points or about 3 points per game played. He started 3 games in the pros.
Ok so a less than average pro, none the less my point is some players translate better to college than they do to the pros (Tyler Hansbrough, Tim Tebow, Christian Laettner,etc)
Laettner was a pretty good NBA player. Made an All star team, played for the dream team and averaged almost 13 ppg in his career. Laettner was not an average pro.
My god I am not trying to split hairs here, point is that he was a hell of a lot better college player than pro....was one of the best NCAA players during his time and was far from that in the NBA.
This again! Was going to make this point if nobody else did. Jok all day, everyday.
I can't begin to describe how stupid these statements are and then to top it off the last sentence is one of the dumber things I have read here in months.
You need to go back and watch that game again. Jok had to work his tail off to get open and "Yes" he was "hounded" all game. If you didn't see it, like I said go watch it again. Iowa laid an egg, but Maryland had a great defensive game.
If Jok adds 6 or 7 trips to the line a game he might be in that 23 to 25 pts a game over his next 45 games. You could tell he was working on getting to the line if that improves look out.
