6U Flag Football Coach and "Play to Win" mentality...

[HawkeyesAndCubs1023]

I signed my 1st grader up for flag football this year. He's expressed interest in the game, is very social, and loves to run around (he's done t-ball/coach pitch baseball and soccer as well).

We signed him up with 3 buddies from his school, and we got randomly assigned to a coach and some other kids. The coach runs downright impressive practices. There is no horsing around, and everything is exceptionally crisp for this age (not sure if this is a good thing or not).

Anyway, we had practice last Thursday night with our opening game on Saturday. He pulled the parents in and said, "I can guarantee that every kid will get in the game, but we are playing to win." You could have almost heard a pin drop, and then everybody dispersed.

Fast-forward to Saturday:

• Only 3 kids touch the ball (my son got a mop-up score as their team was up by 4 TD's)
• 3 kids got zero offensive snaps
• 1 kid exclusively played center/snapper
• Coach got irate when the other team scored their lone TD as they did not "set the edge for outside contain"

In short...I think any coach of kids this young who is "playing to win" and not simply playing every kid equally is completely warped. The goal of sports at this age should be introducing new skills, and hoping that the kids like football enough to sign up the next year.

By taking this "win at all costs" approach, I don't believe he is doing anything to further any kid's football career (will all come down to their God-given talent, what happens after they hit puberty, work ethic, etc.), but he might be destroying kids' interest in the game.

I'm not overly concerned about it for my son (he's somewhere in the middle in terms of ability and got plenty of playing time), but I think this could be a really ugly experience overall.

Am I seeing this properly?

 

[bojihawk44]

I'm by far the most competitive person I've been around. I hate to lose more than anything in the world.

But anybody who thinks winning at any level below high school, I would argue even up to varsity, is relevant in any manner is just dumb. The entire point of sub varsity athletics is skill development. Winning at all costs usually proves to be detrimental when it actually matters later on.

Young kids need to have fun playing sports or they'll simply quit. And while winning is really fun, actually getting to play is the best thing for most kids.

You are spot on, here.

 

[luvmyhawks]

For a bunch of 6 year olds?? JFC. I am all for play to win mentality, but this is ridiculous and over the top.

 

[WrigleyHawkeye20]

Yeah, that’s ridiculous. I’ve coached my sons flag football (6U and now 8U) the last three years and our league has rules on how much each kid needs to play (although there’s no real way to enforce it). While the kids like winning, our goal is to make sure all the kids are involved, learning and HAVING FUN. The last thing I want to do is kill a kids spirits who may not be on the highest level talent-wise by not playing him.

 

[HawkeyesAndCubs1023]

For a bunch of 6 year olds?? JFC. I am all for play to win mentality, but this is ridiculous and over the top.

Agreed. I coach baseball and until they are in 3rd or 4th grade, I do the following:

• Every kid plays every single position
• Batting order completely different every game

Were I coaching 6U football, I would play every kid equally and ensure that every kid got to touch the ball once per game.

 

[General Tso]

I signed my 1st grader up for flag football this year. He's expressed interest in the game, is very social, and loves to run around (he's done t-ball/coach pitch baseball and soccer as well).

We signed him up with 3 buddies from his school, and we got randomly assigned to a coach and some other kids. The coach runs downright impressive practices. There is no horsing around, and everything is exceptionally crisp for this age (not sure if this is a good thing or not).

Anyway, we had practice last Thursday night with our opening game on Saturday. He pulled the parents in and said, "I can guarantee that every kid will get in the game, but we are playing to win." You could have almost heard a pin drop, and then everybody dispersed.

Fast-forward to Saturday:

• Only 3 kids touch the ball (my son got a mop-up score as their team was up by 4 TD's)
• 3 kids got zero offensive snaps
• 1 kid exclusively played center/snapper
• Coach got irate when the other team scored their lone TD as they did not "set the edge for outside contain"

In short...I think any coach of kids this young who is "playing to win" and not simply playing every kid equally is completely warped. The goal of sports at this age should be introducing new skills, and hoping that the kids like football enough to sign up the next year.

By taking this "win at all costs" approach, I don't believe he is doing anything to further any kid's football career (will all come down to their God-given talent, what happens after they hit puberty, work ethic, etc.), but he might be destroying kids' interest in the game.

I'm not overly concerned about it for my son (he's somewhere in the middle in terms of ability and got plenty of playing time), but I think this could be a really ugly experience overall.

Am I seeing this properly?

Is he interested in a collegiate offensivd coordinator gig? Asking for a friend

 

[Funky Bunch]

I bet this coach is just a winner in all facets of life

 

[VodkaSam]

Your son’s coach is a tool. I’m sure the other parent are all thinking the same thing. Never heard of a dipshit coach approaching 6-year old flag football like that.

 

[Jerome Silberman]

I signed my 1st grader up for flag football this year. He's expressed interest in the game, is very social, and loves to run around (he's done t-ball/coach pitch baseball and soccer as well).

We signed him up with 3 buddies from his school, and we got randomly assigned to a coach and some other kids. The coach runs downright impressive practices. There is no horsing around, and everything is exceptionally crisp for this age (not sure if this is a good thing or not).

Anyway, we had practice last Thursday night with our opening game on Saturday. He pulled the parents in and said, "I can guarantee that every kid will get in the game, but we are playing to win." You could have almost heard a pin drop, and then everybody dispersed.

Fast-forward to Saturday:

• Only 3 kids touch the ball (my son got a mop-up score as their team was up by 4 TD's)
• 3 kids got zero offensive snaps
• 1 kid exclusively played center/snapper
• Coach got irate when the other team scored their lone TD as they did not "set the edge for outside contain"

In short...I think any coach of kids this young who is "playing to win" and not simply playing every kid equally is completely warped. The goal of sports at this age should be introducing new skills, and hoping that the kids like football enough to sign up the next year.

By taking this "win at all costs" approach, I don't believe he is doing anything to further any kid's football career (will all come down to their God-given talent, what happens after they hit puberty, work ethic, etc.), but he might be destroying kids' interest in the game.

I'm not overly concerned about it for my son (he's somewhere in the middle in terms of ability and got plenty of playing time), but I think this could be a really ugly experience overall.

Am I seeing this properly?

Yes, that coach is a huge dbag. At that level coaches should almost be as concerned for the other kids in the league as their own. Adults are the worst.

 

[Scott559]

When I was a younger man I coached little league baseball, I made a deal with every kid on the team, You make it to practice you will play, I obviously started the better kids but every kid got at least 2 innings in the field and at least one at bat. It pissed off some of the parents of the “better” players at first but I must say almost all of them came around to understand that I was trying to make it fun for all the kids and not just their kids.
I will say it’s a totally different world now and I doubt I would have the same success.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

Seriously, that’s just dumb. At that age they’re more interested in the post-game treats than anything else.

I laugh when I watch football parents. Youth soccer has its nuts, but from what I’ve seen football takes the cake. I’ve seen 10 and 11 year old teams with 5-6 coaches. Half the dads are overweight meatheads reliving their high school days, yelling at everybody in sight. It’s a riot.

 

[McLovin32]

That coach sounds like a freaking moron.

 

[ping72]

Dude is nuts. Report him to league organizers.

 

[onlyTheObvious]

If the town is big enough a competitive league a participation league would probably be best.

Not going to change people’s ideas so maybe isolating them would be best when possible.

 

[HawkOptimist]

Sounds like the type of guy that’ll buy a “coach of the year” trophy and make his team present it to him at the end of the season.

 

[AreWeCross]

The coach needs to be removed from youth sports. Run as far away from him as you can.

 

[QChawks]

what's the problem?

 

[dgordo]

Ridiculous. Colleges don’t even start scouting kids until they are 8.

 

[gojojo]

I helped coach my son's flag football teams in Red Zone in Iowa City from 3rd-5th grade. Tyler Blum does an outstanding job of building a program that gets everyone involved and making it competitive at the same time.

Not sure if he has the same system, but he would have the officials keep track of what number is getting the ball and a rule that no kid can get the ball on 3 consecutive plays. As a coach we'd communicate with the officials to make sure our touch count matched.

After a few games he would divide the league into a gold and silver bracket so things stay balanced. It's fun playing in IC and seeing Hinkel, Kaeding, Schnoor, and other ex Hawkeye dad's involved.

We would talk with kids about playing to have fun but we are here to try and win. I do think it's good to foster a healthy competitive spirit at an early age. It's a delicate balance but competition is a part of life and it's our job as adults to prepare them for it. What is the correct age? I'm not sure. 6 is definitely too young and that coach your son plays for is a joke...I know a few. I felt we did a pretty good job with it.

Of course there were a few dad's that take it too far but that almost inevitable in youth sports. I've seen it much worse in 7v7, almost caught a good fight between coaches of 8u 7v7 this past summer. I'm guessing someone else on here witnessed it at state in CR. It was almost more comical than pathetic.

I believe once you get to hs the gloves come off so to speak. We are here to win. A grandparent at my son's freshman game two weeks ago was yelling at the coaches that not everyone had played yet. By the third time in the 4th quarter, in a 13-7 game, another parent, a parent of a kid who does not play unless it's a blowout, came over to talk to him. Couldn't hear what was said but by reading the situation the dad was telling GPA to knock it off.

By hs, and even 8th grade, the kids that are playing are present for voluntary work outs over the summer and early morning lifts. It's not fair to them to put in kids that don't do the work but just want to play to make the family happy. By 14 or 15 if you want to play you need to put the work in. That's exactly what life is going to look like down the road.

 

[RushProbst]

• Coach got irate when the other team scored their lone TD as they did not "set the edge for outside contain"

If Rashan Gary can’t under the concept how can a 6 y/o?

This coach sounds like Spike’s dad from Little Giants.
Does he have a play sheet wristband for the QB?
Please provide updates each week.

 

[OILCHECKER]

Counterpoint:

My kid played on a team where every kid got to play QB. Im guessing 90% of the plays ended up with a fumbled snap or missed handoff. When you practice 2x a week for an hr and try to rotate 10 kids thru the QB position, no one learns anything. Kids need repetition. Should have limited QB snaps to 3-4 kids.

 

[PoopandBoogers]

Age 16- that's life
Age 6- that's sad

 

[jberesford]

Of course you're out there to win. Otherwise we wouldn't keep score. But there's certainly some common sense about teaching competitiveness and just being over the top. This is pretty over the top.

At 6th grade level the kid had a coach like that. Which is fine, it helped shake him out of a sport he wasn't good at and he's moved on to others he's better at, but the speech sounded the exact same. All kids will play, but we're here to win... But in reality a lot of kids barely did play. And they rarely won...

 

[NoleinATL]

The coach's comment about setting the outside edge are a bit too much, but, if a parent believes that all kids should play an equal amount of time or touch the ball equally, they should not enroll their children in competitive team sports. Not every child is the same, some are faster, smarter, and better at certain positions.

 

[HawkeyesAndCubs1023]

The coach's comment about setting the outside edge are a bit too much, but, if a parent believes that all kids should play an equal amount of time or touch the ball equally, they should not enroll their children in competitive team sports. Not every child is the same, some are faster, smarter, and better at certain positions.

I agree with you at a certain age, but at 6 years old, when many of the kids have never played football before, do you think that these leagues should be classified as "competitive"?

 

[NoleinATL]

I agree with you at a certain age, but at 6 years old, when many of the kids have never played football before, do you think that these leagues should be classified as "competitive"?

I do not, which is why it should be a fun league, no reason to keep score, just let them run around and have fun with their teammates while teaching the basics.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

The coach of my baseball team at 10 years old paraphrased Lombardi to us one time after we lost. “You show me a good loser, and I’ll show you nothin’ but a goddamned loser.”

The parents all had a word with him.

 

[MeetTheFerentzes]

Oh, goodie. I was hoping there would be another thread with tons of stories about psycho parent coaches. NOW I’m convinced that the problem exists.

 

[Doodads and Hoohah]

I helped coach my son's flag football teams in Red Zone in Iowa City from 3rd-5th grade. Tyler Blum does an outstanding job of building a program that gets everyone involved and making it competitive at the same time.

Not sure if he has the same system, but he would have the officials keep track of what number is getting the ball and a rule that no kid can get the ball on 3 consecutive plays. As a coach we'd communicate with the officials to make sure our touch count matched.

After a few games he would divide the league into a gold and silver bracket so things stay balanced. It's fun playing in IC and seeing Hinkel, Kaeding, Schnoor, and other ex Hawkeye dad's involved.

We would talk with kids about playing to have fun but we are here to try and win. I do think it's good to foster a healthy competitive spirit at an early age. It's a delicate balance but competition is a part of life and it's our job as adults to prepare them for it. What is the correct age? I'm not sure. 6 is definitely too young and that coach your son plays for is a joke...I know a few. I felt we did a pretty good job with it.

Of course there were a few dad's that take it too far but that almost inevitable in youth sports. I've seen it much worse in 7v7, almost caught a good fight between coaches of 8u 7v7 this past summer. I'm guessing someone else on here witnessed it at state in CR. It was almost more comical than pathetic.

I believe once you get to hs the gloves come off so to speak. We are here to win. A grandparent at my son's freshman game two weeks ago was yelling at the coaches that not everyone had played yet. By the third time in the 4th quarter, in a 13-7 game, another parent, a parent of a kid who does not play unless it's a blowout, came over to talk to him. Couldn't hear what was said but by reading the situation the dad was telling GPA to knock it off.

By hs, and even 8th grade, the kids that are playing are present for voluntary work outs over the summer and early morning lifts. It's not fair to them to put in kids that don't do the work but just want to play to make the family happy. By 14 or 15 if you want to play you need to put the work in. That's exactly what life is going to look like down the road.

This.

 

[Fan In Black]

I'd rather have that coach than Brian Ferentz amarite?

 

[ISUBryceC]

I’ve coached flag at various levels in various leagues 10+ times. I coach Little League, I’ve done some soccer and basketball too.

Every year I tell my parents that my #1 goal is that their kids want to go out again. At younger ages, at the rec level, it’s about modeling behavior for kids and making them have fun. You also never know who will surprise you and make huge strides through the year.

One thing about it at that age they aren’t missing a lot of it doesn’t go well. If he runs good practices I think he’s probably a good coach that has the kids’ attention. The game behavior is absurd, but how many games are there? 6? Just encourage your kid and keep pumping them up and it’ll be fine.

 

[ANYCHawk]

When I was a younger man I coached little league baseball, I made a deal with every kid on the team, You make it to practice you will play, I obviously started the better kids but every kid got at least 2 innings in the field and at least one at bat. It pissed off some of the parents of the “better” players at first but I must say almost all of them came around to understand that I was trying to make it fun for all the kids and not just their kids.
I will say it’s a totally different world now and I doubt I would have the same success.

This is an absolutely ridiculous method and, while you don't realize it, you were playing to win.

 

[win1forthe]

Maybe he has to average a certain amount of points to come back next year.

 

[LuciousBDragon]

I signed my 1st grader up for flag football this year. He's expressed interest in the game, is very social, and loves to run around (he's done t-ball/coach pitch baseball and soccer as well).

We signed him up with 3 buddies from his school, and we got randomly assigned to a coach and some other kids. The coach runs downright impressive practices. There is no horsing around, and everything is exceptionally crisp for this age (not sure if this is a good thing or not).

Anyway, we had practice last Thursday night with our opening game on Saturday. He pulled the parents in and said, "I can guarantee that every kid will get in the game, but we are playing to win." You could have almost heard a pin drop, and then everybody dispersed.

Fast-forward to Saturday:

• Only 3 kids touch the ball (my son got a mop-up score as their team was up by 4 TD's)
• 3 kids got zero offensive snaps
• 1 kid exclusively played center/snapper
• Coach got irate when the other team scored their lone TD as they did not "set the edge for outside contain"

In short...I think any coach of kids this young who is "playing to win" and not simply playing every kid equally is completely warped. The goal of sports at this age should be introducing new skills, and hoping that the kids like football enough to sign up the next year.

By taking this "win at all costs" approach, I don't believe he is doing anything to further any kid's football career (will all come down to their God-given talent, what happens after they hit puberty, work ethic, etc.), but he might be destroying kids' interest in the game.

I'm not overly concerned about it for my son (he's somewhere in the middle in terms of ability and got plenty of playing time), but I think this could be a really ugly experience overall.

Am I seeing this properly?

Does this coach back in to park by chance?

 

[ZachJump]

When I was 6 I was not supposed to play to win?

I am still shaking my head at the coach pulling me from the mound in third grade softball because the other kids parents wanted to suffer with the rest of us and watch him roll the ball to the plate.

 

[Twoooooooo]

Seriously, that’s just dumb. At that age they’re more interested in the post-game treats than anything else.

I laugh when I watch football parents. Youth soccer has its nuts, but from what I’ve seen football takes the cake. I’ve seen 10 and 11 year old teams with 5-6 coaches. Half the dads are overweight meatheads reliving their high school days, yelling at everybody in sight. It’s a riot.

I suggest you go to a kids wrestling tournament. Been to a few over the years. Was oblivious to as a kid but when I started coaching (high school varsity) I would take some of the kids to freestyle/greco tournaments. They ran a lot of kids tournaments at the same time in the other gym of the schools. Sometimes I would go over as one my kids may have a little brother or sister in the kids tournament. Parents/coaches are ridiculous. No wonder I saw so many of them in high school burnt out and hate the sport

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

I signed my 1st grader up for flag football this year. He's expressed interest in the game, is very social, and loves to run around (he's done t-ball/coach pitch baseball and soccer as well).

We signed him up with 3 buddies from his school, and we got randomly assigned to a coach and some other kids. The coach runs downright impressive practices. There is no horsing around, and everything is exceptionally crisp for this age (not sure if this is a good thing or not).

Anyway, we had practice last Thursday night with our opening game on Saturday. He pulled the parents in and said, "I can guarantee that every kid will get in the game, but we are playing to win." You could have almost heard a pin drop, and then everybody dispersed.

Fast-forward to Saturday:

• Only 3 kids touch the ball (my son got a mop-up score as their team was up by 4 TD's)
• 3 kids got zero offensive snaps
• 1 kid exclusively played center/snapper
• Coach got irate when the other team scored their lone TD as they did not "set the edge for outside contain"

In short...I think any coach of kids this young who is "playing to win" and not simply playing every kid equally is completely warped. The goal of sports at this age should be introducing new skills, and hoping that the kids like football enough to sign up the next year.

By taking this "win at all costs" approach, I don't believe he is doing anything to further any kid's football career (will all come down to their God-given talent, what happens after they hit puberty, work ethic, etc.), but he might be destroying kids' interest in the game.

I'm not overly concerned about it for my son (he's somewhere in the middle in terms of ability and got plenty of playing time), but I think this could be a really ugly experience overall.

Am I seeing this properly?

You're totally correct.

I "coached" T-ball back in the day. Just let the kids have fun....teach a few basics but it's pretty hard to keep kids that age from picking dandelions in the outfield or having all of them fighting over the ball....or running through your "hold" sign rounding third. Can't take it seriously, it's about fun.

 

[Nole Lou]

I disagree strongly with your coach's gameday behavior. Everyone should play and touch the ball the minimum amount of times, and ideally close to an equal amount of times. And he has no business being super critical on mistake, or at that age, critical at all.

That said, I strongly disagree with the anything goes, don't keep score, play with the dirt attitude too. With the exception of baseball, every other kids sport playing successfully (measured largely but not entirely by "winning") strongly correlates with all the things that you want kids to get out of youth sports...learning about teamwork, learning skills, improving, love of sports, being a gracious winner and loser, overcoming adversity, etc.

Losing every game 40-0, not completing a pass or making basket...I guarantee you the majority of the kids aren't having fun with that. Every team of 6-10 year olds my kids have been on, 60-70% of them are excited about playing sports. They've been waiting to play since they were toddlers, they watch sports, they are excited to do it and do it well. My son, who was not a very good athlete but was into it, was miserable on those teams.

The kids that didn't pay attention, didn't want to try, didn't show up half the time...there's just no real reason to cater the program to those kids. They won't be there next year anyway...they don't really want to play sports anyway. But the kids that did come in excited to play sports...if their season is a miserable slog of getting crushed, they're ALSO not going to want to play.

It's not "winning" per se, but kids have to see some success. If your flag football team loses 35-28, or 35-21, everyone got their playing time, there is plenty to be proud of in that, and a coach should be making the kids feel good about that. But if they lose every game 42-0 or 42-7...most of the kids aren't having fun. Plenty of 6 year old boys know what winning and losing is.

Obviously its all a balance. Winning shouldn't be overemphasized by any means, but you have to be shooting for some kind of results more than "we were outside for an hour". If your kid only wants to be outside for an hour, set up a slip and slide in your yard. My kid has been on teams where coaches made as little effort as possible to get any but the best players involved, and that sucks. But he's been on teams where they'll let any kid pitch if he asks to and walk in the five run limit without throwing a strike, or play QB and he can't hold the ball in one hand...those sucked more.

You got to put a kid at QB that can at least throw the ball a bit. You got to put a kid at 1st base that can catch a throw, you have to put a goalie in that watches the game and doesn't chase crickets. There's just a minimum level competence/success a team has to have, even at 6, for it to be fun for most kids and encourage interest in the sport.

 

[Nole Lou]

I disagree strongly with your coach's gameday behavior. Everyone should play and touch the ball the minimum amount of times, and ideally close to an equal amount of times. And he has no business being super critical on mistake, or at that age, critical at all.

That said, I strongly disagree with the anything goes, don't keep score, play with the dirt attitude too. With the exception of baseball, every other kids sport playing successfully (measured largely but not entirely by "winning") strongly correlates with all the things that you want kids to get out of youth sports...learning about teamwork, learning skills, improving, love of sports, being a gracious winner and loser, overcoming adversity, etc.

Losing every game 40-0, not completing a pass or making basket...I guarantee you the majority of the kids aren't having fun with that. Every team of 6-10 year olds my kids have been on, 60-70% of them are excited about playing sports. They've been waiting to play since they were toddlers, they watch sports, they are excited to do it and do it well. My son, who was not a very good athlete but was into it, was miserable on those teams.

The kids that didn't pay attention, didn't want to try, didn't show up half the time...there's just no real reason to cater the program to those kids. They won't be there next year anyway...they don't really want to play sports anyway. But the kids that did come in excited to play sports...if their season is a miserable slog of getting crushed, they're ALSO not going to want to play.

It's not "winning" per se, but kids have to see some success. If your flag football team loses 35-28, or 35-21, everyone got their playing time, there is plenty to be proud of in that, and a coach should be making the kids feel good about that. But if they lose every game 42-0 or 42-7...most of the kids aren't having fun. Plenty of 6 year old boys know what winning and losing is.

Obviously its all a balance. Winning shouldn't be overemphasized by any means, but you have to be shooting for some kind of results more than "we were outside for an hour". If your kid only wants to be outside for an hour, set up a slip and slide in your yard. My kid has been on teams where coaches made as little effort as possible to get any but the best players involved, and that sucks. But he's been on teams where they'll let any kid pitch if he asks to and walk in the five run limit without throwing a strike, or play QB and he can't hold the ball in one hand...those sucked more.

You got to put a kid at QB that can at least throw the ball a bit. You got to put a kid at 1st base that can catch a throw, you have to put a goalie in that watches the game and doesn't chase crickets. There's just a minimum level competence/success a team has to have, even at 6, for it to be fun for most kids and encourage interest in the sport.

And baseball is somewhat different. Not only is it super hard, but kids can measure and experience individual improvement and achievement in baseball regardless of the score or game result. So it's a little less important to be somewhat competitive in baseball, although I still never saw 6-8 year olds having a ton of fun getting absolutely dominated game after game either.

 

[SoDakHawk]

My 7 yr old plays flag football. It is brutal to watch that mess and is a complete waste of time. But he likes it as he gets to run around and play with his friends. So we'll be there on Monday.

OP, if that guy was my kid's coach we would just drop out and not show up. That guy is a tool.