He's got you there, Drake! He "derped" you!
‘I deserve to be valued’: LGBTQ youth speak out against statehouse Republican bills
- Thread starter cigaretteman
- Start date
So you think people shouldn't drink, drive, or join military service until 25?
The suicide rate amongst teens in the US is bad enough, but it’s double for LGBTQ kids. You and I may disagree on how things should be handled, but marginalizing kids, and using them as weapons in a culture war to boost your chances of being the 2024 VP nominee isn’t helpful.
Most of us won't do genital surgery until 18. Version 7 of guidelines said no top surgery until late teens after living in gender for 1 year on hormones, and lifelong signs of gender dysphoria. Bottom surgery was a no until 18. New version guidelines came out a few months ago but said teens should only have surgery after being evaluated by a multi-disciplinary team.
Either way, regret is limited and 0.5 to 1.5%.
Keep in mind, it doesn’t end with teens. The next stop is to ban gender affirming care to adults and simply erase trans people from any ability to live their lives as they see fit. Republicans want to cancel trans people. Regular old gays will be tolerated, but pushed back towards the closet where they belong.
If you really want to go down this rabbit hole, I think a lot of our age established rules should be updated. We have learned a lot about the brain in the last couple of decades and these laws pre-date it by decades if not over a century.
I think we all have enough anecdotal evidence in each of our own lives to know that even 18-25 year olds can make some incredibly stupid, impulsive decisions. If not, you’re either age 18 to 25 yourself or you are ignorant. I am sure you would agree that age group may not stop at 25 as well.
That being said, you cannot attempt to equate (like Huey has) military service, drinking, smoking, renting a car, seeing a rated-R movie, and last but not least gender care. Maybe you can lump drinking and smoking together I guess. Each topic is different enough and needs to stand on its own merit and risk-reward evaluated.
Military service is one I think we would all agree it is tough to send 18 year olds off to war. But perhaps if we didn’t, then we wouldn’t even be able to even argue this stupid shit on GIAHORT in the first place. It’s a necessary evil. I don’t see a lot of 40-50 year old Americans stepping up to fill our military ranks. Sucks, but it’s true.
Source? And how exactly does one define & measure “regret?”
Science... Regret= patient states I wish I wouldn't have had this transgender surgery.
Best, most accurate study is the Amsterdam one due to length and number of trans programs in the country. Older papers are problematic because gay men labeled themselves trans to escape the discrimination toward them with the AIDS epidemic.
"Only 0.6% of transwomen and 0.3% of transmen who underwent gonadectomy were identified as experiencing regret."
The Amsterdam Cohort of Gender Dysphoria Study (1972-2015): Trends in Prevalence, Treatment, and Regrets - PubMed
The number of people with gender identity issues seeking professional help increased dramatically in recent decades. The percentage of people who regretted gonadectomy remained small and did not show a tendency to increase. Wiepjes CM, Nota NM, de Blok CJM, et al. The Amsterdam Cohort of Gender...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Factors associated with satisfaction or regret following male-to-female sex reassignment surgery - PubMed
This study examined factors associated with satisfaction or regret following sex reassignment surgery (SRS) in 232 male-to-female transsexuals operated on between 1994 and 2000 by one surgeon using a consistent technique. Participants, all of whom were at least 1-year postoperative, completed a...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Factors predictive of regret in sex reassignment - PubMed
The objective of this study was to evaluate the features and calculate the frequency of sex-reassigned subjects who had applied for reversal to their biological sex, and to compare these with non-regretful subjects. An inception cohort was retrospectively identified consisting of all subjects...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
I respect your opinion and don't necessarily disagree with maturity and brain development but we have legal precedent. If you think joining the military is less dangerous than transgender surgery, you're not thinking correctly. It's a necessary evil if you're willing to trade 18 yo lives for freedom. Well then it's a necessary evil to let people change their bodies because it has little to no effect on anyone else. A small percent will make a mistake. Most will be fine and happy with their choices.
This is 100% true. Already started. OK, SC, VA, MS, KS all have proposals to ban trans care to those 21-26. It's just like abortion. They said they wanted to turn it over to the state and then Lindsey Graham proposes a national law after Roe vs Wade. This is why I'm not willing to make concessions. The other side is dishonest.
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/3810926-transgender-youth-health-care-bans-have-a-new-target-adults/
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/25/us/politics/transgender-laws-republicans.html
Right now in Iowa a 16 year old can quit school the second she turns 16, get a driver's license, get a full-time job, get married, move out of her parents home, and start a family. Yet she can't decide her own sexuality? How does that argument make sense?
Did these studies involve adults or children?Science... Regret= patient states I wish I wouldn't have had this transgender surgery.
Best, most accurate study is the Amsterdam one due to length and number of trans programs in the country. Older papers are problematic because gay men labeled themselves trans to escape the discrimination toward them with the AIDS epidemic.
"Only 0.6% of transwomen and 0.3% of transmen who underwent gonadectomy were identified as experiencing regret."
The Amsterdam Cohort of Gender Dysphoria Study (1972-2015): Trends in Prevalence, Treatment, and Regrets - PubMed
The number of people with gender identity issues seeking professional help increased dramatically in recent decades. The percentage of people who regretted gonadectomy remained small and did not show a tendency to increase. Wiepjes CM, Nota NM, de Blok CJM, et al. The Amsterdam Cohort of Gender...Factors associated with satisfaction or regret following male-to-female sex reassignment surgery - PubMed
This study examined factors associated with satisfaction or regret following sex reassignment surgery (SRS) in 232 male-to-female transsexuals operated on between 1994 and 2000 by one surgeon using a consistent technique. Participants, all of whom were at least 1-year postoperative, completed a...Factors predictive of regret in sex reassignment - PubMed
The objective of this study was to evaluate the features and calculate the frequency of sex-reassigned subjects who had applied for reversal to their biological sex, and to compare these with non-regretful subjects. An inception cohort was retrospectively identified consisting of all subjects...
It doesn’t. But that does not change the fact you are making false equivalencies.
I respect your opinion as well. I draw the line though with children. I do not believe in normalizing that. That does have an effect on society. If you’re an adult, cut away (and I think society should take a hard look at what defines adults - we seem to be running short on those these days).
Of course I'm not sure that's a fit with the sort of patient we're seeing more of today. The big concern right now is that there has been shift in the sort of kids that are showing up at the gender clinics purporting to have gender dysphoria. Much more often female, and much more often without persistent pre-pubescent gender dysphoria.Science... Regret= patient states I wish I wouldn't have had this transgender surgery.
Best, most accurate study is the Amsterdam one due to length and number of trans programs in the country. Older papers are problematic because gay men labeled themselves trans to escape the discrimination toward them with the AIDS epidemic.
"Only 0.6% of transwomen and 0.3% of transmen who underwent gonadectomy were identified as experiencing regret."
The Amsterdam Cohort of Gender Dysphoria Study (1972-2015): Trends in Prevalence, Treatment, and Regrets - PubMed
The number of people with gender identity issues seeking professional help increased dramatically in recent decades. The percentage of people who regretted gonadectomy remained small and did not show a tendency to increase. Wiepjes CM, Nota NM, de Blok CJM, et al. The Amsterdam Cohort of Gender...Factors associated with satisfaction or regret following male-to-female sex reassignment surgery - PubMed
This study examined factors associated with satisfaction or regret following sex reassignment surgery (SRS) in 232 male-to-female transsexuals operated on between 1994 and 2000 by one surgeon using a consistent technique. Participants, all of whom were at least 1-year postoperative, completed a...Factors predictive of regret in sex reassignment - PubMed
The objective of this study was to evaluate the features and calculate the frequency of sex-reassigned subjects who had applied for reversal to their biological sex, and to compare these with non-regretful subjects. An inception cohort was retrospectively identified consisting of all subjects...
That said... perhaps these kids aren't likely to undergo a gonadectomy anyway. (more likely to start hormones or receive a mastectomy)
There could end up being some regression -- although it would have to seem overall acceptance is as high as ever -- which is part of the reason I've been hard on the left around their treatment of gender issues.
We're at the point now that I'm sure a bunch of parents -- even well meaning, accepting, democratic voters -- are concerned about their kid getting swept up in the gender identity "craze", being rushed through our medical system, and being placed on hormones or receiving surgery or some other treatment that they'll later greatly regret.
This undercurrent can't be ignored when discussing the republican legislative response to the issue. (which often enough misses the mark)
Thanks for your input in this thread. I'm glad I know this nowScience... Regret= patient states I wish I wouldn't have had this transgender surgery.
Best, most accurate study is the Amsterdam one due to length and number of trans programs in the country. Older papers are problematic because gay men labeled themselves trans to escape the discrimination toward them with the AIDS epidemic.
"Only 0.6% of transwomen and 0.3% of transmen who underwent gonadectomy were identified as experiencing regret."
The Amsterdam Cohort of Gender Dysphoria Study (1972-2015): Trends in Prevalence, Treatment, and Regrets - PubMed
The number of people with gender identity issues seeking professional help increased dramatically in recent decades. The percentage of people who regretted gonadectomy remained small and did not show a tendency to increase. Wiepjes CM, Nota NM, de Blok CJM, et al. The Amsterdam Cohort of Gender...Factors associated with satisfaction or regret following male-to-female sex reassignment surgery - PubMed
This study examined factors associated with satisfaction or regret following sex reassignment surgery (SRS) in 232 male-to-female transsexuals operated on between 1994 and 2000 by one surgeon using a consistent technique. Participants, all of whom were at least 1-year postoperative, completed a...Factors predictive of regret in sex reassignment - PubMed
The objective of this study was to evaluate the features and calculate the frequency of sex-reassigned subjects who had applied for reversal to their biological sex, and to compare these with non-regretful subjects. An inception cohort was retrospectively identified consisting of all subjects...
I think this is a pretty complicated issue. I'm not convinced sending these kids down the path of puberty blockers, hormone treatments and ultimately irreversible surgeries is "helping" them. I'm more in the "wait and see" camp with young kids...
I also don't want to see these kids vilified....more complicated than either camp treats the issue IMO.
In my bible there is only one who will judge our souls and that is Jesus. All else is worldly. When we judge others there is only one direction "we" are headed and that my friends isn't up!
If only you knew how profoundly unqualified I am to be vice president...
But either way, again, kids are pretty stupid as a rule.
Oh, and FWIW, age-stratified suicide rates are actually higher among adults than they are among teens, so if you really want to argue from a position of attempted shaming, show some empathy for your elders. Also, funnily enough, youth suicide rates actually trended downward/flat during the trump administration after at least six years of increases (not that i actually believe that there's political causation in play in any of this).
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Actually, among the youth, it's more of a baseline proposition, from which some emerge and some don't, for various reasons.
I think all of this is beside the point when the original topic was allowing children under the age of 18 to transition. Even if we ignore the brain thing, we generally don't allow anyone to make big life decisions until they are over 18.
Now suddenly we are being told that a 6 year old can make big life decisions when it comes to their gender.
Let me know when the army starts drafting 6 year old to fill their ranks.
Again, in Iowa you can quit school, get married, and become a parent at 16. This has little to do with big life decisions.
**With Parent's Permission** At least I assume.
And liberals generally oppose those laws anyways.
And we arn't talking about even 16 year olds. We are talking about elementary aged children who are declaring that they are not the gender they were born as..
I completely agree. Others in the thread insisted that military service was an equivalent. That’s why I called it a rabbit hole. Perhaps I should have used the term “severe tangent to entertain false equivalencies.”
Yes with permission first. How does this differ from treatment with permission for transitioning?
And my point is a slippery slope one. First it was claimed that anyone under their 20s wasn't capable of making a transitioning decision. Then that was moved to 18 after it was pointed out that 18 year olds can join the military. And now it has moved, once again, to 16 with age of consent and marriage laws.
And Uro will have to tackle the transitioning protocol for elementary kids. We already know that it was said that they won't touch surgery for anyone younger than 18.
Age of consent in Iowa is 16. And it's 14 if your partner is 15 or 16. Why is sex at 14 ok but not living as your desired gender?
I think @LuciousBDragon was just making a side reference about the fact that our brains don't fully develop until 25, not really suggesting that people have to be 25 years old in order to transition.
That said they do give elementary aged kids puberty blockers which do have long term consequences on them.
And not only that the decision about what pro-nouns to use are sometimes being made without parents being involved in that decision.
To protect the second amendment they do.
Its a risk benefit analysis just like any medical treatment. And that analysis should be left up to the doctors and patients, not state lawmakers.
I disagree I think it's perfectly acceptable for the population to set ethical boundaries for the medical profession.
Do your boys take any medication to help with their autism? If so would how would you feel if the state decided that it was inappropriate for anyone under the age of 18 to take drugs that help with behavior even with parental consent?
No they don't take any medication. They just do therapy.
There is no real medication for autism that I'm aware of. There is medication for related disorders like ADHD which I'm sure both of my boys could likely be diagnosed with. That said we are avoiding that specifically because both of our brother's took ADHD medication and had bad side effects as a result.
That having been said even ADHD meds don't typically have the lifetime effects of puberty blockers.
The only person taking regular prescription medications in my house is me and those medications are phenytoin sodium extended (to control epilepsy) and primidone (to control essential tremors).
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