When you find yourself defending LD you should reflect on your stupid take.
‘I deserve to be valued’: LGBTQ youth speak out against statehouse Republican bills
- Thread starter cigaretteman
- Start date
According to medical research there are no irreversible effects of puberty blockers. If you decide to stop taking them, your body will go through puberty just the way it would have if you had not taken puberty blockers at all.
And before you tell me how that can't possibly be true, many parents I have worked with refuse to consider medication for ADD or ADHD because they believe it leads to future drug addiction.
I generally avoid ad hominem arguments like that.
Even the worst people in the world get some things right. For example even Adolph Hitler was right about smoking.
Bone density loss was mentioned as a life time side effect of puberty blockers. Also it can limit height.
Lastly there is a lot they don't know about the life time side effects of puberty blockers because they just started this insanity recently and the children who have been given them havn't grown into full adulthood yet.
There are always possibilities of side effects from medical treatment. That is why doctors along with parents weigh the risks vs benefits. Do you think minors should be able to take depression medication? How do you feel about children receiving gender affirming care without medication?
What other medical decisions about minors do you think should be made by the state?
FYI
I support the right of parents to choose whether or not to place their children on ADD or ADHD medication. These are a couple of articles that dispute your claim of no long term effects from medication treating those disorders:
Even After Stopping ADHD Medications, Children's Brains Show Differences
ADHD Medication May Affect Brain Development in Children
I think a HUGE first step is for society to just calm the eff down and see these people (kids included), where they are. My son has some friends who are trans or think they might be at this point and idiots like that TN politician saying “take off your clothes and look in the mirror” shit aren’t helping anyone. That’s just being arrogant, dismissive and condescending in all the worst ways. People coming from that side are not interested in a discussion.
There are complex debate points here. There is a question of age of maturity to be able to make medical decisions that have significant impacts to later adult life…and yet for matters of sexuality and development, puberty is a really critical time and there are some phases that cannot be reversed later. This is where I put a lot of emphasis on relationships with physicians and kids/parents/etc getting solid guidance to make the best possible decisions. Government intervention is generally not helpful here.
I have a question why arn't psychiatrists and psychologists involved in these discussions?
Some people talk about this as if it’s the hottest trend out there. It’s not. It has more visibility than ever, partly because of better overall acceptance, but sadly also because of vilification. I know some kids in this situation because my son kind of runs in those circles (he’s out as gay) and this isn’t just some cool thing the kids are excited about and recruiting others. They’re all struggling through for acceptance and to figure out who they are. One of my son’s best friends, for example, is completely out and open with a different name to his mom, but dad refuses to recognize it (they’re divorced) and still uses birth name around dad. That’s not some super-cool existence that everyone is going to be jealous of and wanting to emulate.
Who says they aren't? Or are you for federally mandated psychiatric care before families can make certain medical decisions?
They often are. Of the kids I’ve referenced in my posts, I know at least a couple are getting counseling. I don’t know the details (nor should I), but these are complex topics and I don’t understand why there’s some belief out there that nobody is using psych care. That said, psych care is too often not covered under standard insurance (speaking from experience), so if we’re going to continue to marginalize mental health care, it’ll continue to be underutilized.
Then how come we are seeing an exponential increase in the number of people identifying as LGBTQ?
1 in 6 members of Gen Z identify as LGBTQ.
I would certainly be a lot more comfortable with the decision for puberty blockers if a psychologist or a psychiatrist signed off on it along with an MD.
I'm still not sure I'm 100% ok with it because of the side effects but I would like to know that it isn't some far left adult convinced their son is a girl in a boy's body because he played with a doll once or convinced their daughter is a boy in a girl's body because she likes playing with trucks dragging them into the doctor's office who just signs off on it because he either wants to keep them as patients or because he doesn't want to get cancelled and review bombed because he refused puberty blockers.
????? Is this a real question or are you trying to make some obscure point?
Are you saying that @Gimmered is left leaning? Or stupid? Or just misunderstood his kid's toy selection?
Gosh I'm sure it has nothing to do with no longer being ostracized by their family or beaten on the street. Probably just too much CNN.
Depression . . . in consultation with a psychiatrist yes.
Gender affirming care without medication . . . as long as both parents (if involved) are fully informed and have signed off on it.
So you really believe that a random sampling of all people would reveal that 16% or more people are really people who were born in the wrong bodies and/or desire sexual relationships with people of the same sex.
Well, ultimately, it's a lot of things. There's more visibility and acceptance. And it's also socially attractive in a way that it didn't use to be. And there can still be real hardships associated with it. (even if not discriminated against, being in such a distinct minority can be alienating)
Like Hoosier pointed out, the numbers of LGBTQ+ identifying youths has skyrocketed. Within certain circles it's certainly chic. (trendy lefty places)
I think some kids are dealing with mental issues and or simply the travails of youth and are looking for answers; peer groups, acceptance. Questioning whether or not you might be the wrong gender is suddenly on the table in 2023, and you have peer groups that you can glom on to and gain quick acceptance and belonging. That dynamic did not exist until just recently.
There's plenty reason a kid might be attracted to this sort of thing even if a parent was against it. (my god, rebellious youth, anyone? Peer group over parents, anyone?)
At any rate, it would usually be a rather big nothing burger but for all the life altering -- possibly permanent -- effects associated with going down the trans path. That's what gives me pause. It were nothing but kids playing with their gender, gender bending or whatnot, fine... but it's a bit more than that.
Depends on who they poll. People in your family? 0%. It's clearly not safe to be yourself there.
In my house? 25%.
So am I surprised by the number? No. Do I think it's bad? No. Do I think it's a 'trend that they young kids are getting into?' No.
So you're saying that when you were 16-26 peer pressure could have made you date/have sex with a guy?
Good to know.
I find it extremely difficult to believe that there isn't some sort of pushing here because it's the cool thing to do.
Because if it was just about acceptance and less fear of threats we should see older generations also come out as LGBTQ because that is what they always were naturally and now know they can be their authentic selves with less fear.
But instead that is simply not the case. While some older people are coming out and becoming trans . . . in general older people are not en mass changing their public sexual orientations or genders.
Which leads me to believe that a lot of kids are doing it because it's the cool thing to do. Because if it wasn't that we should see similar changes in the number of older people identifying as LGBTQ.
There’s record of homosexuality going back to the dawn of human existence even through eras where getting discovered meant you were ostracized or killed, so this isn’t some new invention or new hot craze nobody ever tried before. We have no ability to baseline it back several generations because it was so taboo and shoved to the margins.
We’ll never really know how many people went ahead and got married and had kids in a “normal” straight relationship because that was the only way they’d be accepted by friends and family and/or maintain their careers.
Still sad, young children need not have drag queens and homosexuals shoved down their throats while at school.
And how many of your kid's friends are gay. How many people in their class?
You certainly see more of it than you used to. There’s baggage at all ages, but it’s easier at the youth/young adult level if they have a good support system in place. That older generation you talk about? Coming out might mean telling your spouse of multiple decades that you were really more attracted to people of your same sex the entire time you were together. You don’t think that’s hard? These people also grew up at a time when it was not ok to talk about that stuff, so even as they see the increased acceptance, it’s hard to discuss.
I have a good friend that I’ve known for decades and when we met, I only ever knew him as the son of a single mom. Never talked about his dad and all that. Found out in the last few years that dad was trans and switched genders. I don’t know how involved the dad might or might not have been in my friend‘s life (or who made choices about such relationships), but I know they got closer later in life. There seems to be this sense on the right that it’s a cool trend and everyone is just flaunting it and getting recruited in. This shit is still incredibly hard. You feel like “other”. You don’t fit in. You know some people are going to hate you for not going along with visible gender parts. This stuff is not easy. People are battling through identity and questioning whether what they feel is right.
The people you see on TV openly talking about it are the ones that are the most comfortable with who they are and the decisions they’ve made and are trying to pave the way to make it more ok for others. They’re not the majority.
I was speaking more to gender identity and trans end of things.
Generally I agree that actual sexual attraction and the actions, specifically, associated with isn't too malleable.
Most of the of the gay friends I've had reported being attracted to only one thing. (albeit, all guys)
Although there also does seem to be, particularly amongst women, a number of people that are rathe malleable in sexual orientation. For them it's a if you build it, they will come, sort of scenario. (basically... they may choose that path now that it's well defined largely acceptable socially) So ultimately I get the feeling it's sort of a mixed situation.
The polling number seem to indicate, though, that there is a desire to be in the LGBTQ club for lots of kids -- and they'll do the minimum needed to gain inclusion. (just claim to be bi)
I'm aware of that. . . and I'm also aware that there were also societies in which homosexuality was considered normal at least for a period of time.
Which leads me to believe that a lot of people will go along with whatever culture pushes them towards.
If sexual orientation and gender identity is a set in stone thing based on genetics I would strongly doubt that nearly 1 in 5 people would come to a orientation or identity which leads them to not reproduce in the natural way. How could a species survive if 1 out of every 5 of it's members refused to reproduce.
But we can’t talk about “all the rage” and cite 1 in 6 Gen X as LGBTQ+ and then hang all the harm on trans conversions. It is NOT anything close to 1 in 6 looking to change their gender. Your last point is glomming all the LGBTQ+ on to the trans identity. The vast majority of LGBTQ+ spend exactly zero time “going down the trans path”.
So the argument keeps changing here. Are we mad about trans and people changing sex or are we mad about homosexuality?
And where does someone who is not me being either impact my life to the point where I should get to have a say in theirs?
Older people do too.
No I really don't. Divorce was and has been widely accepted by their generations. Besides many in those generations have become full fledge supporters of LGBTQ. So you are talking about a person who walks around saying and thinking it's ok to be gay, but is gay, and is somehow afraid to say they are gay.
Depends on where you live. And honestly from what I've understood most younger generations are accepting of just about anything right now. So I don't buy that it's very hard. If your mom and dad and all your friends think it's ok than who is against you? It's not like they are going to be scared because some politician on TV doesn't like them.
I'm mostly mad about the push to put this all on younger and younger children.
Then they went down the bisexuality or homosexuality path. In either case I don't buy that 16+% of people are naturally gender dysphoric or naturally homosexual/bisexual.
This is absolutely something that people consider trendy now.
I guess if you think it’s easy and there‘s no marginalization at school and all parents are accepting now, then there’s no problem and I’m not sure what we’re discussing. I’ve given one clear example here of a kid with one parent who accepts and one that 100% does not. My middle son is out as gay and my wife and I have suspected as much for years (no, not because of toy choice) and he still struggled for several years and outwardly denied being gay to us for quite awhile, even to the point of pretending he had a girlfriend when he was really interested in another boy, basically right up until the point at which he told us.
This. Shit. Isn’t. Easy. Easier than it used to be? Sure, but it’s still not easy.
Intentionally or not, lumping them all together is not productive for discussion and causes more problems than it solves.
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I'm guessing that one kid didn't lose very many friends from his decision.
The fact that he is rebelling against his dad doesn't make for a terribly convincing argument.
Well, maybe the pendulum swings. Certainly in terms of sexuality, some people experiment. My son pretended to have a GF before coming out to us as gay. Some people enjoy sex with anyone. So what?
I cannot disagree more with the “pushing on younger children”. People are cherry-picking examples where parents make a choice to expose their kids to something and wrapping it up with being open about the existence of certain groups and calling it “pushing”. There’s no grand conspiracy to “groom“ kids into homosexuality, bisexuality or to convert gender.
Gays, bis, trans, etc., will all continue to exist in the world whether we hide it from our kids or not. I find it much easier to just acknowledge what’s out in the world and teach my kids who to productively interact with society at large.
