“We Need a Covid Commission” – Bill Maher Says Fauci and Democrats Refuse to Admit They Got It Wrong

[Finance85]

Can't believe people still believe this falsehood. Hospitals lost over $300 billion in 2020. There was no kickbacks, only reimbursement from CMS (Medicare/caid) for treating COVID patients. For example, one patient in an ICU that was on a ventilator for 30 days would run over $1 million in hospital charges, CMS still pays the same flat rate(~$39K) for the patient no matter length of stay or outcome. Yes, I know Medicare offsets most of the hospital charges, but private insurance companies sure do not.

Also, when someone died Covid positive in the hospital, it was one of the contributing factors reported to coroners and the state. Just like when someone with Stage 4 cancer dies of sepsis. Cancer was a contributing factor to the death and needs to be included when reporting the death. There was one case in Florida that I remember that a motorcycle death was considered a Covid death because the individual was Covid positive at the time of death. It was removed from the Covid death number later. That was a one in one million occurrence.

There were no falsehoods or skewed reporting of Covid cases by hospitals or doctors. The fines for committing fraud against insurance companies or CMS are ridiculously high and why would doctors risk their reputations and licensure for this.

Being a frontline RN in an ICU, this stupid claim about kickbacks and padding Covid deaths is quite personal to me and my fellow healthcare workers. We had no pay increase and lost 401k matching in the hospital I worked in. Many auxiliary workers were put on furlough and some lost their jobs. Hospital administrators took pay cuts, granted it wasn't much, in order to try to balance the budget. Nothing good happened within hospital walls in 2020 besides death, despair, animosity and PTSD.

AHA continues to debunk false claims about COVID-19 deaths and payments | AHA News

For the last several months, disturbing and unproven theories have gained attention about the death count for COVID-19. We find these erroneous and egregious charges leveled against doctors – which have been repeated during the past few weeks – dismaying, disconcerting and disturbing.

www.aha.org

Federal Subsidies Kept COVID-Strapped Hospitals Financially Stable In 2020, First Year of Pandemic | Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health

Study finds relief funds defrayed income loss for even the most vulnerable medical centers.

publichealth.jhu.edu

Did you do the medical coding? If so, we can have a discussion. If not, you probably have no idea what was happening behind the scenes.

It's a fact that hospitals got more money for Covid related treatments.

 

[sober_teacher]

That's a nice cut and paste answer that I've read before, but it doesn't actually address the question asked here.

Because it’s a stupid question - because of the very nature of the flu. It’s not really killable.

Viruses/diseases that we’ve managed to effectively eradicate also happen to be far more stable, allowing medical experts to create vaccines that are far more effective, in coordination with dedicated efforts to spread the vaccines as widely as possible.

The only way to eradicate a disease is to deprive it of targets, that either happens naturally or via vaccines.

 

[KFsdisciple]

Because it’s a stupid question - because of the very nature of the flu. It’s not really killable.

Viruses/diseases that we’ve managed to effectively eradicate also happen to be far more stable, allowing medical experts to create vaccines that are far more effective, in coordination with dedicated efforts to spread the vaccines as widely as possible.

The only way to eradicate a disease is to deprive it of targets, that either happens naturally or via vaccines.

In this scenario, the question was asked because virtually no one got the vaccine, and the virus went away, presumably due to the mitigation efforts from masking, social distancing, lack of travel etc. So what brought it back?

 

[sober_teacher]

In this scenario, the question was asked because virtually no one got the vaccine, and the virus went away, presumably due to the mitigation efforts from masking, social distancing, lack of travel etc. So what brought it back?

Because it didn’t go away. You stil had cases out there, just greatly reduced for the reasons you stated.

Besides which, again, THERE ARE MULTIPLE STRAINS OF THE FLU VIRUS. What happened one year wouldn’t have had the same impact on others.

I generally respect you as a poster, but you’re being really obtuse here. One down year of the flu, or any virus, doesn’t make it go away. And the nature of the flu virus with its multiple strains and mutations, probably makes that impossible unfortunately, barring a genuine breakthrough and development of a “super-vaccine” of sorts that was highly effective against all strains.

 

[MichaelKeller99]

If most people didn't get the flu shot, and the flu all but went away, that's somewhat damning for the flu shots? If most people had gotten the flu shots, would that have helped kill the flu off completely or did the masses skipping the flu shot contribute to it laying low?

It is damning.

Vaccines and flu ‘shots’ are one of the biggest scams ever foisted on mankind.

Been great for Pharma, though.

 

[KFsdisciple]

Because it didn’t go away. You stil had cases out there, just greatly reduced for the reasons you stated.

Besides which, again, THERE ARE MULTIPLE STRAINS OF THE FLU VIRUS. What happened one year wouldn’t have had the same impact on others.

I generally respect you as a poster, but you’re being really obtuse here. One down year of the flu, or any virus, doesn’t make it go away. And the nature of the flu virus with its multiple strains and mutations, probably makes that impossible unfortunately, barring a genuine breakthrough and development of a “super-vaccine” of sorts that was highly effective against all strains.

I'm just asking questions. There's no intent to be obtuse. I don't have the data in front of me, but let's say 2019 xxxx millions/billions of people got their annual flu shot and xxxx millions still got the flu... then 2020 rolls around, a much smaller group of people got the flu shot, but only a fraction got the flu at the same time.

2021 hits... people jump back on the flu shot and lo and behold the flu returns in all its glory... isn't it atleast fair to ponder what the correlation is?

 

[Joes Place]

I've never been to a doctor that said, if you don't want the flu shot, at least wear a mask in public it's a viable alternative to taking the shot.

That's because flu is spread by fomites moreso than aerosols, Cletus.

Google up what "fomites" means, if you're that illiterate.

 

[Joes Place]

Now that's a great question. Influenza was never fully killed off, just less effective of spreading and reproducing b/c Covid virus, masks and social distancing.

Yet, here we are, with all of these idiots claiming "None of this works!!!"

NEWSFLASH: It WORKED

 

[Joes Place]

That begs the question then, if the flu was all but killed off for 2 years why did it re-emerge?

We quit masking and social distancing.

You seem to have the long-term memory capability of Dory the Fish, bro.

 

[Joes Place]

I don’t believe that number.

Facts don't care whether you "believe" them, or not.

They are still Facts.

 

[KFsdisciple]

We quit masking and social distancing.

You seem to have the long-term memory capability of Dory the Fish, bro.

we quit masking and social distancing and virus that virtually no one had just returned because... we stopped masking?

 

[Joes Place]

we quit masking and social distancing and virus that virtually no one had just returned because... we stopped masking?

It returned because it still circulates in other animals, Cletus.
Like Covid does.

You seriously this illiterate on influenza strains?
Heard of "Avian flu"? "Swine flu"?

Good lord people on this site are uneducated dipshits!!!

 

[sober_teacher]

I'm just asking questions. There's no intent to be obtuse. I don't have the data in front of me, but let's say 2019 xxxx millions/billions of people got their annual flu shot and xxxx millions still got the flu... then 2020 rolls around, a much smaller group of people got the flu shot, but only a fraction got the flu at the same time.

2021 hits... people jump back on the flu shot and lo and behold the flu returns in all its glory... isn't it atleast fair to ponder what the correlation is?

No, it really isn’t. You’re trying to equate correlation with causation. Flu cases didn’t decline because fewer people got the vaccine.

You’re just asking questions that are, quite frankly, stupid. You even mentioned previously other factors that played a role in flu #s declining. I don’t get why you think it’s so surprising that when those factors were no longer present, that flu cases increased again.

 

[MichaelKeller99]

I'm just asking questions. There's no intent to be obtuse. I don't have the data in front of me, but let's say 2019 xxxx millions/billions of people got their annual flu shot and xxxx millions still got the flu... then 2020 rolls around, a much smaller group of people got the flu shot, but only a fraction got the flu at the same time.

2021 hits... people jump back on the flu shot and lo and behold the flu returns in all its glory... isn't it atleast fair to ponder what the correlation is?

This is an excellent read when you get the time:

The State of Science, Microbiology, and Vaccines Circa 1918​

Perhaps the most interesting epidemiological studies conducted during the 1918–1919 pandemic were the human experiments conducted by the Public Health Service and the U.S. Navy under the supervision of Milton Rosenau on Gallops Island, the quarantine station in Boston Harbor, and on Angel Island, its counterpart in San Francisco. The experiment began with 100 volunteers from the Navy who had no history of influenza. Rosenau was the first to report on the experiments conducted at Gallops Island in November and December 1918.69His first volunteers received first one strain and then several strains of Pfeiffer's bacillus by spray and swab into their noses and throats and then into their eyes. When that procedure failed to produce disease, others were inoculated with mixtures of other organisms isolated from the throats and noses of influenza patients. Next, some volunteers received injections of blood from influenza patients. Finally, 13 of the volunteers were taken into an influenza ward and exposed to 10 influenza patients each. Each volunteer was to shake hands with each patient, to talk with him at close range, and to permit him to cough directly into his face. None of the volunteers in these experiments developed influenza. Rosenau was clearly puzzled, and he cautioned against drawing conclusions from negative results. He ended his article in JAMA with a telling acknowledgement: “We entered the outbreak with a notion that we knew the cause of the disease, and were quite sure we knew how it was transmitted from person to person. Perhaps, if we have learned anything, it is that we are not quite sure what we know about the disease.”69 (p. 313)

The research conducted at Angel Island and that continued in early 1919 in Boston broadened this research by inoculating with the Mathers streptococcus and by including a search for filter-passing agents, but it produced similar negative results.70–72 It seemed that what was acknowledged to be one of the most contagious of communicable diseases could not be transferred under experimental conditions.

The State of Science, Microbiology, and Vaccines Circa 1918

The influenza pandemic of 1918–1919 dramatically altered biomedical knowledge of the disease. At its onset, the foundation of scientific knowledge was information collected during the previous major pandemic of 1889–1890. The work of Otto ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Joes Place]

This is an excellent read when you get the time:

The State of Science, Microbiology, and Vaccines Circa 1918​

Perhaps the most interesting epidemiological studies conducted during the 1918–1919 pandemic were the human experiments conducted by the Public Health Service and the U.S. Navy under the supervision of Milton Rosenau on Gallops Island, the quarantine station in Boston Harbor, and on Angel Island, its counterpart in San Francisco. The experiment began with 100 volunteers from the Navy who had no history of influenza. Rosenau was the first to report on the experiments conducted at Gallops Island in November and December 1918.69His first volunteers received first one strain and then several strains of Pfeiffer's bacillus by spray and swab into their noses and throats and then into their eyes. When that procedure failed to produce disease, others were inoculated with mixtures of other organisms isolated from the throats and noses of influenza patients. Next, some volunteers received injections of blood from influenza patients. Finally, 13 of the volunteers were taken into an influenza ward and exposed to 10 influenza patients each. Each volunteer was to shake hands with each patient, to talk with him at close range, and to permit him to cough directly into his face. None of the volunteers in these experiments developed influenza. Rosenau was clearly puzzled, and he cautioned against drawing conclusions from negative results. He ended his article in JAMA with a telling acknowledgement: “We entered the outbreak with a notion that we knew the cause of the disease, and were quite sure we knew how it was transmitted from person to person. Perhaps, if we have learned anything, it is that we are not quite sure what we know about the disease.”69 (p. 313)

The research conducted at Angel Island and that continued in early 1919 in Boston broadened this research by inoculating with the Mathers streptococcus and by including a search for filter-passing agents, but it produced similar negative results.70–72 It seemed that what was acknowledged to be one of the most contagious of communicable diseases could not be transferred under experimental conditions.

The State of Science, Microbiology, and Vaccines Circa 1918

The influenza pandemic of 1918–1919 dramatically altered biomedical knowledge of the disease. At its onset, the foundation of scientific knowledge was information collected during the previous major pandemic of 1889–1890. The work of Otto ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Gotta go back to >100 yr old (poor) science to support your claims now....

 

[KFsdisciple]

It returned because it still circulates in other animals, Cletus.
Like Covid does.

You seriously this illiterate on influenza strains?
Heard of "Avian flu"? "Swine flu"?

Good lord people on this site are uneducated dipshits!!!

What happened to Avian Flu, and Swine Flu during covid then?

 

[KFsdisciple]

Gotta go back to >100 yr old (poor) science to support your claims now....

well, the "science" wasn't bought and paid for by big pharma like you back then.

 

[Joes Place]

What happened to Avian Flu, and Swine Flu during covid then?

This was already answered for you, Cletus.
How many times do you need it repeated, before it sinks in?

 

[MichaelKeller99]

Gotta go back to >100 yr old (poor) science to support your claims now....

What ‘claims’ was I making, Josephine?

 

[KFsdisciple]

What ‘claims’ was I making, Josephine?

ehhh don't stoop to his low level... if he wants to be an ass let him.

 

[LBoogie28]

Did you do the medical coding? If so, we can have a discussion. If not, you probably have no idea what was happening behind the scenes.

It's a fact that hospitals got more money for Covid related treatments.

Did you do the medical coding?

 

[MichaelKeller99]

well, the "science" wasn't bought and paid for by big pharma like you back then.

Looks like there were pharma shills back then, too, just nothing like there is today.

Almost without exception, those reporting on the use of these Pfeiffer's bacillus vaccines reported that they were effective in preventing influenza.

 

[Joes Place]

Looks like there were pharma shills back then, too, just nothing like there is today.

Almost without exception, those reporting on the use of these Pfeiffer's bacillus vaccines reported that they were effective in preventing influenza.

Looks like a "claim" to me.

Based on >100 year old (poor) data and poor understanding of viruses & vaccines.

 

[MichaelKeller99]

Looks like a "claim" to me.

Based on >100 year old (poor) data and poor understanding of viruses & vaccines.

Yeah.

Because nothing screams (good) data and a good understanding of viruses and vaccines like the mRNA clusterf*** that covid gave us.

Single handedly destroyed the public’s trust in science and exposed the Pharma whores for what they truly are.

🤣 🤣 🤣

 

[Joes Place]

Yeah.

So, we agree you're making a "claim".

Based upon >100 year old knowledge of "viruses", of which there basically was none back then...

 

[MichaelKeller99]

So, we agree you're making a "claim".

Based upon >100 year old knowledge of "viruses", of which there basically was none back then...

So there was basically no knowledge of viruses back in 1918, but there WAS enough knowledge of it in 1796 - one hundred twenty two years earlier - to develop a (smallpox) vaccine? Gtfo 🤣

And then it took another 224 years to come up with the first major innovation (mRNA) in vaccine technology? Again…gtfo 🤣🤣

Child vaccination rates dipped into dangerous territory during the first year of the COVID-19 pandemic, when schools were shuttered, and most doctors were only seeing emergency patients.

But instead of recovering after schools reopened in 2021, those historically low rates worsened, according to new data from the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Experts fear that the skepticism of science and distrust of government that flared up during the pandemic are contributing to the decrease. (stateline.org 1/12/2023)

Great job, ‘Science’! You killed the goose that laid the golden egg.

 

[TNHAWK79]

Are you serious, Clark? It’s not fact, everyone who died and had Covid, counted as a Covid death. Even if you died in an accident. This is factual, the numbers were inflated. It’s about as factual as saying you need to get a Covid shot after getting Covid- what a lie! So again, your feelings don’t come into play, we will never know the real number.

 

[sober_teacher]

So there was basically no knowledge of viruses back in 1918, but there WAS enough knowledge of it in 1796 - one hundred twenty two years earlier - to develop a (smallpox) vaccine? Gtfo 🤣

And then it took another 224 years to come up with the first major innovation (mRNA) in vaccine technology? Again…gtfo 🤣🤣

Child vaccination rates dipped into dangerous territory during the first year of the COVID-19 pandemic, when schools were shuttered, and most doctors were only seeing emergency patients.

But instead of recovering after schools reopened in 2021, those historically low rates worsened, according to new data from the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Experts fear that the skepticism of science and distrust of government that flared up during the pandemic are contributing to the decrease. (stateline.org 1/12/2023)

Great job, ‘Science’! You killed the goose that laid the golden egg.

Yes and no regarding your point at the top. They knew enough to have the basic idea of vaccines - tho with varying levels of efficacy. However, they still had a very imperfect idea of HOW disease was spread. Basic concepts such as sanitation/infection were still in their infancy going into the Spanish-American War; sadly it took WW1 for great advances to be made.

 

[MichaelKeller99]

Yes and no regarding your point at the top. They knew enough to have the basic idea of vaccines - tho with varying levels of efficacy. However, they still had a very imperfect idea of HOW disease was spread. Basic concepts such as sanitation/infection were still in their infancy going into the Spanish-American War; sadly it took WW1 for great advances to be made.

Do you realize how damning this sounds?
According to Dr. Joes Place, PhD, there was ‘basically no knowledge’ of viruses in 1918 but 75 years prior to that there were already vaccine mandates in effect?!?

Damn! Them Pharma grifters been grifting forever, it seems. 🤣 🤣 🤣

Mandatory smallpox vaccination came into effect in Britain and parts of the United States of America in the 1840s and 1850s, as well as in other parts of the world, leading to the establishment of the smallpox vaccination certificates required for travel.

History of smallpox vaccination

One of the deadliest diseases known to humans, smallpox remains the only human disease to have been eradicated. Many believe this achievement to be the most significant milestone in global public health.

www.who.int

 

[KFsdisciple]

Do you realize how damning this sounds?
According to Dr. Joes Place, PhD, there was ‘basically no knowledge’ of viruses in 1918 but 75 years prior to that there were already vaccine mandates in effect?!?

Damn! Them Pharma grifters been grifting forever, it seems. 🤣 🤣 🤣

Mandatory smallpox vaccination came into effect in Britain and parts of the United States of America in the 1840s and 1850s, as well as in other parts of the world, leading to the establishment of the smallpox vaccination certificates required for travel.

History of smallpox vaccination

One of the deadliest diseases known to humans, smallpox remains the only human disease to have been eradicated. Many believe this achievement to be the most significant milestone in global public health.

www.who.int

They've been lying for so long they can't keep their lies straight.

 

[sober_teacher]

Do you realize how damning this sounds?
According to Dr. Joes Place, PhD, there was ‘basically no knowledge’ of viruses in 1918 but 75 years prior to that there were already vaccine mandates in effect?!?

Damn! Them Pharma grifters been grifting forever, it seems. 🤣 🤣 🤣

Mandatory smallpox vaccination came into effect in Britain and parts of the United States of America in the 1840s and 1850s, as well as in other parts of the world, leading to the establishment of the smallpox vaccination certificates required for travel.

History of smallpox vaccination

One of the deadliest diseases known to humans, smallpox remains the only human disease to have been eradicated. Many believe this achievement to be the most significant milestone in global public health.

www.who.int

Yup, Joe was wrong in this instance. At best you could argue their knowledge was incomplete.

 

[Joes Place]

So there was basically no knowledge of viruses back in 1918

There was no fundamental understanding at to how they worked.

It was 30+ years before we even discovered DNA, Cletus.

 

[Joes Place]

At best you could argue their knowledge was incomplete.

Their knowledge was vastly incomplete. Which means "studies" conducted were exceedingly crude.

We didn't even know about DNA and how viruses evolved.

 

[TNHAWK79]

Can't believe people still believe this falsehood. Hospitals lost over $300 billion in 2020. There was no kickbacks, only reimbursement from CMS (Medicare/caid) for treating COVID patients. For example, one patient in an ICU that was on a ventilator for 30 days would run over $1 million in hospital charges, CMS still pays the same flat rate(~$39K) for the patient no matter length of stay or outcome. Yes, I know Medicare offsets most of the hospital charges, but private insurance companies sure do not.

Also, when someone died Covid positive in the hospital, it was one of the contributing factors reported to coroners and the state. Just like when someone with Stage 4 cancer dies of sepsis. Cancer was a contributing factor to the death and needs to be included when reporting the death. There was one case in Florida that I remember that a motorcycle death was considered a Covid death because the individual was Covid positive at the time of death. It was removed from the Covid death number later. That was a one in one million occurrence.

There were no falsehoods or skewed reporting of Covid cases by hospitals or doctors. The fines for committing fraud against insurance companies or CMS are ridiculously high and why would doctors risk their reputations and licensure for this.

Being a frontline RN in an ICU, this stupid claim about kickbacks and padding Covid deaths is quite personal to me and my fellow healthcare workers. We had no pay increase and lost 401k matching in the hospital I worked in. Many auxiliary workers were put on furlough and some lost their jobs. Hospital administrators took pay cuts, granted it wasn't much, in order to try to balance the budget. Nothing good happened within hospital walls in 2020 besides death, despair, animosity and PTSD.

AHA continues to debunk false claims about COVID-19 deaths and payments | AHA News

For the last several months, disturbing and unproven theories have gained attention about the death count for COVID-19. We find these erroneous and egregious charges leveled against doctors – which have been repeated during the past few weeks – dismaying, disconcerting and disturbing.

www.aha.org

Federal Subsidies Kept COVID-Strapped Hospitals Financially Stable In 2020, First Year of Pandemic | Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health

Study finds relief funds defrayed income loss for even the most vulnerable medical centers.

publichealth.jhu.edu

HCA stock increased 137% in 12 months starting 3/20 and you’re telling me the hospitals lost money?? It was government subsidized which is why the hospitals checked everyone for COVID, even death in a car accident. Explain to me how HCA increased 137% and lost money? Healthcare industry had their best years in 2020 and 2021.

Also, appreciate you being on The frontline during that time. We all know someone who was affected.

 

[MichaelKeller99]

The American government: mandating vaccines for eighty…ahem, one hundred and thirty years for something which we have no clue for what the hell it actually is or what it does. Because we only hire the best scientists!

The 1970s to the present was an era of major discoveries and technological break-throughs, and most of the new advances were due to the emergence of molecular biology. The technological advancement is DNA sequencing that allowed the sequencing of the DNA and RNA of thousands of viruses.

Introduction: A Short History of Virology

Viral infections have been recorded unknowingly from the beginning of recorded history. The ancient Greeks and Romans described plagues of unknown origin. In general, infections were blamed on sins and punishment, balances of “vital humors” ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[sober_teacher]

Their knowledge was vastly incomplete. Which means "studies" conducted were exceedingly crude.

We didn't even know about DNA and how viruses evolved.

Joe, what you just posted and what you said before about either fundamentally or basically no understanding are two very different things.

What you said earlier was not accurate; what I’m quoting above is much better.

 

[Joes Place]

HCA stock increased 137% in 12 months starting 3/20 and you’re telling me the hospitals lost money??

Yes

They lost money, and A LOT OF IT.

Most ALL elective surgeries had to be delayed by months, which is a major revenue source for them.

 

[Joes Place]

The American government: mandating vaccines for eighty…ahem, one hundred and thirty years

Uh, no.

And people lined up and waited for hours or days when the polio vaccines came out.

 

[Joes Place]

Joe, what you just posted and what you said before about either fundamentally or basically no understanding are two very different things.

What I posted is ACCURATE. No one knew what a "virus" was until viruses were actually discovered and known to have DNA.

In the timeframe you are talking about, this was "germ theory". Which encompassed anything from viruses to bacteria, etc.

There was no field of "virology", until DNA was discovered, and viruses could be viewed by actual microscopy and electron microscopy.

 

[sober_teacher]

What I posted is ACCURATE. No one knew what a "virus" was until viruses were actually discovered and known to have DNA.

In the timeframe you are talking about, this was "germ theory". Which encompassed anything from viruses to bacteria, etc.

There was no field of "virology", until DNA was discovered, and viruses could be viewed by actual microscopy and electron microscopy.

Joe, sometimes you just need to move on.

Yes, there was a great deal we know now or learned since then that they didn’t know. They were starting to ask better questions and either didn’t believe the answers they got or didn’t understand what they were learning yet.

As they learned more, new fields of medicine were created.

This is not the same thing as saying they had no idea what was going on - their understanding was in its infancy. The difference between a kid thinking addition/subtraction is the culmination of mathematics and gradually learning about calculus, geometry, etc.

You do you however. I wish you’d just admit your initial categorization here wasn’t accurate.