2023 World Championships coming up!

[js8793]

It may be a reason why they will CONTINUE to recruit well, but it is NOT why. Sanderson recruited every bit as well at ISU and has from the VERY BEGINNING at PSU. The only difference in recruiting when he hit PSU was that he added having PA talent in his own back yard and could supplement the roster as he needed with such a lush garden at his disposal.

Everyone gets their panties in a wad when this is said, because they think everyone ignores all the other factors that make PSU great. But, that simply isn't true. PSU is the best for a ton of reasons, but that doesn't mean that Sanderson's ability to recruit from the moment he became a coach isn't the biggest separator amongst many other separators....

Sure. This doesn't actually add anything to the conversation. PSU doesn't rely on PA talent and whether they might have when he first got there is irrelevant. He has his pick of the litter nationally because he's proven he's the guy who can best help you achieve your goals.

Overall, 10/17 of his champions are out of state. That number continues to skew towards out of state as time progresses. In the past 5 years, 7/8 of his champs were out of state. Put him in Utah and he's still going to recruit like this because he's established himself as the best *by a wide margin.*

 

[js8793]

Obviously, this is just my opinion but attempting that move against Sidakov is a bad choice. Dake turned down in an earlier sequence. It would have still been hard to score on Sidakov with a lead late in the match, but he would have given himself more time for a scoring opportunity if he didn't go through that sequence. Kyle's biggest weakness is how he reacts to hard hand fighting. He doesn't like it, doesn't react well to it and leaves himself open for guys to get to his legs.

He did try that move in the earlier sequence. They spent a long time in the crackdown position and Sidakov patiently improved and forced Dake to turn down. The second time Sidakov caught the wrist and that allowed him to start jumping over for exposures. Dake did almost nothing differently in the two exchanges (which is part of the problem).

You're right that it was a bad choice. Sidakov had the answers for that position and that's not something Dake is used to. Almost nobody has scored on him there for a few years. Sidakov made it look easy.

 

[js8793]

Where is she going to college?

Bigger question is what weight she goes next year. Hopefully she can make 68 and be effective.

 

[WildTurk]

Congrats to Amit Elor and her family! World Champion forever!

 

[WildTurk]

He did try that move in the earlier sequence. They spent a long time in the crackdown position and Sidakov patiently improved and forced Dake to turn down. The second time Sidakov caught the wrist and that allowed him to start jumping over for exposures. Dake did almost nothing differently in the two exchanges (which is part of the problem).

You're right that it was a bad choice. Sidakov had the answers for that position and that's not something Dake is used to. Almost nobody has scored on him there for a few years. Sidakov made it look easy

I have to go back and watch but I feel like Yazdani tried a couple chest wrap tosses on David Taylor in the finals but had the same result as Dake. There was a time when Taylor would get horsed a bit on those(Heflin did it to him a couple times for example).

Sidakov and Taylor know exactly how to settle in to those scoring positions now without getting exposed. That's not something Taylor developed overnight.

We all wish Dake would open up more from neutral. He usually scores when he gets in on a shot. That's just not his style. It's almost as if he tries harder to not give up points than he does going for a big score.(Like Ferentz coached football )

 

[MSU158]

Sure. This doesn't actually add anything to the conversation. PSU doesn't rely on PA talent and whether they might have when he first got there is irrelevant. He has his pick of the litter nationally because he's proven he's the guy who can best help you achieve your goals.

Overall, 10/17 of his champions are out of state. That number continues to skew towards out of state as time progresses. In the past 5 years, 7/8 of his champs were out of state. Put him in Utah and he's still going to recruit like this because he's established himself as the best *by a wide margin.*

It adds EVERYTHING to the conversation because your ENTIRE PREMISE is WRONG. You threw Iowa coaches under the bus for recruiting while completely making something up about why PSU recruits so well.

Also, I never once said he relied on PA talent. I simply said he got even better at PSU leaving ISU because he had a PA back yard to "supplement" his roster. That is a GIANT difference from "relying" on it.

Simply put, Cael Sanderson is the best recruiter because he is Cael Sanderson. If PSU never happened he would STILL be the best recruiter. David Taylor is quite possibly the best recruit he ever had and he was originally to ISU and was out of state(Ohio) as well.

Losing d1collegewrestling.net really hurts, because the numbers were at your fingertips, but Sanderson has had his pick of guys his entire head coaching career. He only had a higher number of PA guys at the beginning because those guys were simply that good. Make no mistake, if the PA guy was the best recruit at a bunch of weights he would end up having a bunch of them again now.

Let's not act like these recruits are only enamored with PSU's success and Sanderson himself is 2nd tier or even further back when recruits decide where they are going...

 

[el dub]

Where is she going to college?

Where do you think?

 

[Inspiteofourselves]

Where do you think?

I honestly have no clue. I'll admit I do not follow the women's wrestling near as much as the men.

 

[js8793]

I have to go back and watch but I feel like Yazdani tried a couple chest wrap tosses on David Taylor in the finals but had the same result as Dake. There was a time when Taylor would get horsed a bit on those(Heflin did it to him a couple times for example).

Sidakov and Taylor know exactly how to settle in to those scoring positions now without getting exposed. That's not something Taylor developed overnight.

We all wish Dake would open up more from neutral. He usually scores when he gets in on a shot. That's just not his style. It's almost as if he tries harder to not give up points than he does going for a big score.(Like Ferentz coached football )

The first chest wrap in Yazdani-Taylor could have been scored either way and basically decided the match. That was very close.

The idea that a chest wrap is a bad move because it doesn't always work is wrong. That goes for every move. Tazhudinov broke open his match against Snyder with a big chest wrap defending a double.

The other part of this is that a lot of times (like the Dake match) guys end up in that position as a last resort because the attack beat their first lines of defense.

If you watch the Dake match, Sidakov gets in deep -> Dake squats and tries to drop weight on Sidakov with his hips while finding an angle -> Sidakov drops back hand to the ankle, elevates, and sits Dake to his butt. That exact sequence happened both times. From there Dake is just trying to hold on for a stalemate or mistake from Sidakov.

 

[T8KUDWN]

He did try that move in the earlier sequence. They spent a long time in the crackdown position and Sidakov patiently improved and forced Dake to turn down. The second time Sidakov caught the wrist and that allowed him to start jumping over for exposures. Dake did almost nothing differently in the two exchanges (which is part of the problem).

You're right that it was a bad choice. Sidakov had the answers for that position and that's not something Dake is used to. Almost nobody has scored on him there for a few years. Sidakov made it look easy.

I agree with most of what you said. He should have learned from the first time they were in that position. Sidakov didn't grab the wrist until after the first 2 points were awarded for exposure in the 2nd sequence, that was all Dake holding on to the chest wrap. Then Sidakov caught the wrist and started jumping over and yes, made it look real easy. Crazy how good and comfortable he is in that postion.

 

[js8793]

It adds EVERYTHING to the conversation because your ENTIRE PREMISE is WRONG. You threw Iowa coaches under the bus for recruiting while completely making something up about why PSU recruits so well.

Also, I never once said he relied on PA talent. I simply said he got even better at PSU leaving ISU because he had a PA back yard to "supplement" his roster. That is a GIANT difference from "relying" on it.

Simply put, Cael Sanderson is the best recruiter because he is Cael Sanderson. If PSU never happened he would STILL be the best recruiter. David Taylor is quite possibly the best recruit he ever had and he was originally to ISU and was out of state(Ohio) as well.

Losing d1collegewrestling.net really hurts, because the numbers were at your fingertips, but Sanderson has had his pick of guys his entire head coaching career. He only had a higher number of PA guys at the beginning because those guys were simply that good. Make no mistake, if the PA guy was the best recruit at a bunch of weights he would end up having a bunch of them again now.

Let's not act like these recruits are only enamored with PSU's success and Sanderson himself is 2nd tier or even further back when recruits decide where they are going...

Dude, you just agreed with everything I said. What is going on upstairs with you? I'm honestly stunned lmao

 

[MSU158]

Dude, you just agreed with everything I said. What is going on upstairs with you? I'm honestly stunned lmao

Please elaborate. What exactly did I agree with from your original post on this topic? I am REALLY looking forward to reading that response...

 

[js8793]

I agree with most of what you said. He should have learned from the first time they were in that position. Sidakov didn't grab the wrist until after the first 2 points were awarded for exposure in the 2nd sequence, that was all Dake holding on to the chest wrap. Then Sidakov caught the wrist and started jumping over and yes, made it look real easy. Crazy how good and comfortable he is in that postion.

Yep, 100% agree with you. The Russians are so dangerous with that wrist trap thing.

 

[T8KUDWN]

Yep, 100% agree with you. The Russians are so dangerous with that wrist trap thing.

As a whole the Russian system is as dirty as it gets, but what they can do on a wrestling mat is amazing.
They can make situations and scoring sequences look so easy and are so fluid in their movements.

 

[el dub]

I honestly have no clue. I'll admit I do not follow the women's wrestling near as much as the men.

I was thinking she’s a Hawk.

 

[js8793]

Please elaborate. What exactly did I agree with from your original post on this topic? I am REALLY looking forward to reading that response...

That PSU is the best because Sanderson is the best coach in the country, not because they have good facilities (or any other reason).

I suspect you're trying to separate recruiting from coaching (which is dumb), but even if I concede that, he does more with his elite recruits than anybody else does. He's both the best recruiter and coach.

Now one step deeper (if you're capable), sure he's always been a great recruiter. Why? Do you think he hypnotizes kids? Is he THAT charismatic. Does he have the coolest shoes?

OR

Did kids believe in his ability to coach them because they grew up watching him dominate? And do they believe it even more strongly now that he's shown how much better he is than everybody else at coaching?

Whether it was built on his own athletic career (early) or his coaching resume (now), it doesn't change the fact that kids chose him because they believed he was the best person to make them champions. And that is what Brands has to change to get back on top. And (circling back), facilities is not how you do that.

 

[js8793]

Also, Cael would have 100% won at Iowa State. People act like he was buried under the shadow of Iowa. He was only there 3 years and already had 3 top 5 finishes and multiple champs. He was coming regardless.

PSU just accelerated the timeline because he got to pair his own elite recruits DT and Long with Molinaro, Ruth, and Wright (all 3 of which greatly improved under him) and ended up with a superpower in one year.

 

[MSU158]

That PSU is the best because Sanderson is the best coach in the country, not because they have good facilities (or any other reason).

I suspect you're trying to separate recruiting from coaching (which is dumb), but even if I concede that, he does more with his elite recruits than anybody else does. He's both the best recruiter and coach.

Now one step deeper (if you're capable), sure he's always been a great recruiter. Why? Do you think he hypnotizes kids? Is he THAT charismatic. Does he have the coolest shoes?

OR

Did kids believe in his ability to coach them because they grew up watching him dominate? And do they believe it even more strongly now that he's shown how much better he is than everybody else at coaching?

Whether it was built on his own athletic career (early) or his coaching resume (now), it doesn't change the fact that kids chose him because they believed he was the best person to make them champions. And that is what Brands has to change to get back on top. And (circling back), facilities is not how you do that.

None of that gibberish has ANYTHING to do with what I was responding to in your first 2 posts.

1.) You said Iowa doesn't understand recruiting and PSU is recruiting because of a bunch of reasons OTHER than Sanderson ALWAYS being the best recruiter going back to his time at ISU. I simply debunked that by saying he has always recruited that well before even proving he can create NCAA Champs and Team Titles.

2.) You said he recruits well because of what he established. I clearly pointed out he recruited well BEFORE he established any proof of being a great coach and even IF the PSU success didn't happen, I am 100% certain he would STILL be the best recruiter there has ever been.

In NO WAY did I agree with anything you said in those 2 posts.

As far as this post goes:

1.) I have always been the one saying recruiting is a huge part of coaching. It is just that many PSU sychophants get mad when you single that part out as the most relevant, because you must somehow be saying they aren't good anywhere else. In my first post I clearly stated there are a bunch of separators that make PSU the best. It is just that recruiting is the biggest one.

2.) Sanderson is a bona fide salesman. He had the hardware coming into coaching that NO ONE has ever had. 159-0 and an Olympic Champ. Now, his PSU success has absolutley bolstered that.

3.) One thing we agree on, but it took you 3 posts to get there, is that the Brands still need to make changes. That is simply common sense. But, you are WRONG in thinking facilities aren't a factor. Alone, they absolutely are NOT enough, but they sure as hell are not irrelevant...

 

[T8KUDWN]

Also, Cael would have 100% won at Iowa State. People act like he was buried under the shadow of Iowa. He was only there 3 years and already had 3 top 5 finishes and multiple champs. He was coming regardless.

PSU just accelerated the timeline because he got to pair his own elite recruits DT and Long with Molinaro, Ruth, and Wright (all 3 of which greatly improved under him) and ended up with a superpower in one year.

Bobby Douglas had a pretty damn solid program going at isu.
Karl wasn't exactly given chopped liver.
It's sad how isu and Karl crapped on Bobby.

 

[Nashville_Hawkeye]

Although he may not have the credentials we are looking for, I’d love to see Kem Dawg come back and coach. He’d be a good recruiter and coach.

He's one of my favorite Hawks ever. He suffered way too many injuries...just seemed like he was never 100 percent. Loved the power, funk, and offense mindedness of Kem, and like you, I think he'd be a great addition!

 

[MSU158]

Also, Cael would have 100% won at Iowa State. People act like he was buried under the shadow of Iowa. He was only there 3 years and already had 3 top 5 finishes and multiple champs. He was coming regardless.

PSU just accelerated the timeline because he got to pair his own elite recruits DT and Long with Molinaro, Ruth, and Wright (all 3 of which greatly improved under him) and ended up with a superpower in one year.

In every debate I have ever had on this I happily say Cael would have won at ISU. But, there is NO WAY IN HELL it would have been nearly the success he has had at PSU. You could put Burroughs, Dake, Taylor and Snyder as the coaching staff at ISU and, in many ways, they will still be second fiddle to Iowa. Being an MSU guy to my bone marrow I am keenly aware of this factor simply by UofM also being in this state. You simply do not give enough inherent value to what being the number 1 program in a state means...

 

[T8KUDWN]

He's one of my favorite Hawks ever. He suffered way too many injuries...just seemed like he was never 100 percent. Loved the power, funk, and offense mindedness of Kem, and like you, I think he'd be a great addition!

Mine too. Hard working, great young man and so humble. His ability to shoot from space, be stretched out and pull a leg in and score was amazing. Unfortunately, I believe the ability to be able to do this was his demise. That's a lot of years being extended with a lot of torque on his shoulder(s).

 

[MSU158]

Mine too. Hard working, great young man and so humble. His ability to shoot from space, be stretched out and pull a leg in and score was amazing. Unfortunately, I believe the ability to be able to do this was his demise. That's a lot of years being extended with a lot of torque on his shoulder(s).

Damn good observation. McDonough was the same way and both ended up with career "destroying" shoulder injuries in their last seasons...

 

[WildTurk]

Time to exit the thread. MSU158 is about to write another book about how he is correct.

Very entertaining World's this year! Proud of all the athletes that represented Team USA. I'm glad I was able to watch most of it. Looking forward to Olympic wrestling next year! ✌️

 

[js8793]

None of that gibberish has ANYTHING to do with what I was responding to in your first 2 posts.

1.) You said Iowa doesn't understand recruiting and PSU is recruiting because of a bunch of reasons OTHER than Sanderson ALWAYS being the best recruiter going back to his time at ISU. I simply debunked that by saying he has always recruited that well before even proving he can create NCAA Champs and Team Titles.

2.) You said he recruits well because of what he established. I clearly pointed out he recruited well BEFORE he established any proof of being a great coach and even IF the PSU success didn't happen, I am 100% certain he would STILL be the best recruiter there has ever been.

In NO WAY did I agree with anything you said in those 2 posts.

As far as this post goes:

1.) I have always been the one saying recruiting is a huge part of coaching. It is just that many PSU sychophants get mad when you single that part out as the most relevant, because you must somehow be saying they aren't good anywhere else. In my first post I clearly stated there are a bunch of separators that make PSU the best. It is just that recruiting is the biggest one.

2.) Sanderson is a bona fide salesman. He had the hardware coming into coaching that NO ONE has ever had. 159-0 and an Olympic Champ. Now, his PSU success has absolutley bolstered that.

3.) One thing we agree on, but it took you 3 posts to get there, is that the Brands still need to make changes. That is simply common sense. But, you are WRONG in thinking facilities aren't a factor. Alone, they absolutely are NOT enough, but they sure as hell are not irrelevant...

Ask his recruits why they go there, often accepting less money to do so. They'll tell you because they want to be champions.

You can write novels trying to overcomplicate it for some reason, but it doesn't change the fact that recruiting isn't going to change for Iowa until they start winning on Saturday night at NCAA's and putting guys on the podium at Worlds. If you disagree with that, you're an idiot. If you don't, you're also an idiot because you wasted all our time.

 

[Nashville_Hawkeye]

Someday I may also donate to the HWC, BTW. Iron sharpening iron, and all. Especially if I ever go to a dual with @el dub, @Trapper85, or @natchrlman (who I'm currently worried some about).

Are you OK, @natchrlman?

One of my favorite versus: Proverbs 27:17: “As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another”

 

[el dub]

Ask his recruits why they go there, often accepting less money to do so. They'll tell you because they want to be champions.

You can write novels trying to overcomplicate it for some reason, but it doesn't change the fact that recruiting isn't going to change for Iowa until they start winning on Saturday night at NCAA's and putting guys on the podium at Worlds. If you disagree with that, you're an idiot. If you don't, you're also an idiot because you wasted all our time.

Well, Iowa needs to recruit better to sniff top of podium, imo. Don’t put the cart before the horse.

 

[Nashville_Hawkeye]

Mine too. Hard working, great young man and so humble. His ability to shoot from space, be stretched out and pull a leg in and score was amazing. Unfortunately, I believe the ability to be able to do this was his demise. That's a lot of years being extended with a lot of torque on his shoulder(s).

So sad. What a fine young man!

 

[MSU158]

Ask his recruits why they go there, often accepting less money to do so. They'll tell you because they want to be champions.

You can write novels trying to overcomplicate it for some reason, but it doesn't change the fact that recruiting isn't going to change for Iowa until they start winning on Saturday night at NCAA's and putting guys on the podium at Worlds. If you disagree with that, you're an idiot. If you don't, you're also an idiot because you wasted all our time.

The simple truth is you were the one that wrote "novels" essentially blowing every aspect of PSU, while writing one tiny tidbit basically saying the current coaching staff is too stupid to be able to see what the differences are.

Also, there is WAYYYY more to recruiting than guys winning on Saturday night. For you to even go there shows how little you actually know about DI wrestling. Yes, that is a factor. But, you can easily connect with a top recruit and get them to buy into you without that. Hell, many top recruits still go to schools other than PSU, Iowa, Michigan, tOSU or even OkState.

PSU is just the perfect storm that NO ONE is catching for the forseeable future. But, that doesn't mean Iowa can't drastically improve their recruiting with the right sales pitch and mindset. Connecting with kids goes a long way. This is actually why Morningstar has been more successful actually landing top 10 recruits than Brands ever had.

To continue to progress in recruiting this needs to continue along with cultivating and identifying a non PSU mindset. FInd the kids that want to overturn the apple cart. Get a feel for the kids that want to knock off #1. There are plenty of those out there. Like it or not, the Ferrari's are that kind of recruit. Hopefully you find more in the future with less baggage, but they still landed the #1 lb for lb kid because of it...

 

[MSU158]

Time to exit the thread. MSU158 is about to write another book about how he is correct.

Very entertaining World's this year! Proud of all the athletes that represented Team USA. I'm glad I was able to watch most of it. Looking forward to Olympic wrestling next year! ✌️

Remember, it takes 2 to tango. But, I will happily bow out from here. I have said my piece.

 

[T8KUDWN]

Damn good observation. McDonough was the same way and both ended up with career "destroying" shoulder injuries in their last seasons...

One year at the World Team Trials, McDonough was there as a training partner for Mike Zadick. Mike was getting a hard live go in with Matt in the warmup area. Matt was shooting hard and getting extended and Mike was having a hell of a time breaking his grip and was really torquing on his shoulder(s). I said then, he's going to end up with bad shoulders if he keeps wrestling like that. I will say it takes a lot of heart, determination and toughness to finish a shot like that though.

 

[js8793]

Well, Iowa needs to recruit better to sniff top of podium, imo. Don’t put the cart before the horse.

They won't start recruiting at that level until they start proving they can produce champs. So in the meantime, they need to start chipping away with the guys they do have. Ayala, Arnold, Ferrari, and Kueter need to win championships. Real Woods needs to win next year to get it started.

It's not like Iowa isn't recruiting anybody. They're just not producing. No titles out of Kemerer, Marinelli, Eierman, and Warner is brutal. When they start producing with what they have, they can start making a better argument for themselves to recruits. And that's where things like facilities can start working as tie-breakers. But they have to get in striking distance for that to matter at all.

For a football analogy, it's like spending high draft picks on positions like guard, linebacker, safety, etc...They may be great players, but until you have strength at the foundational positions (QB, OT, Edge, WR), you're not going to get all of your desired value out them.

 

[MSU158]

They're just not producing.

I know I said I was out, but this is such pure garbage I can't let it go by.

1.)Kemerer 3rd,4th,2nd,5th
2.)Marinelli 7th,6th,R12,5th
3.)Eierman 2nd, injury default
4.)Warner 7th,4th,2nd,5th

If not for major injuries at the end of the season all 4 AA EVERY time they wrestled for Iowa. That isn't remotely "brutal" and is FAR from not producing. It is ridiculously hard to AA that many times and even that much harder win an Indy.

No recruit with a brain is going to look at those 4 you listed and say Iowa isn't "producing" and their results with top 10 recruits are "brutal"...

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

"Have a nice day!" 🍒

 

[MSU158]

"Have a nice day!" 🍒

You too!‍❄️

 

[WildTurk]

I will happily bow out from here. I have said my piece.

We'll see about that..

 

[el dub]

"Have a nice day!" 🍒

There you go… Being negative again. Lol

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

We'll see about that..

He already failed twice. And he basically proved @js8793 's point by listing most recent elite recruits who did not become champions. Could've added Real Woods one year to that list.

Sure second tier recruits target AA status, and are elated by multiple AAs. Not so much the elite of the elite.

But still @MSU158 marches on, apparently so caught up in himself and that he doesn't even realize how what he writes can and will be read.

 

[js8793]

I know I said I was out, but this is such pure garbage I can't let it go by.

1.)Kemerer 3rd,4th,2nd,5th
2.)Marinelli 7th,6th,R12,5th
3.)Eierman 2nd, injury default
4.)Warner 7th,4th,2nd,5th

If not for major injuries at the end of the season all 4 AA EVERY time they wrestled for Iowa. That isn't remotely "brutal" and is FAR from not producing. It is ridiculously hard to AA that many times and even that much harder win an Indy.

No recruit with a brain is going to look at those 4 you listed and say Iowa isn't "producing" and their results with top 10 recruits are "brutal"...

Top 10 P4P recruits don't go to college to be AA's. Hope this helps.

 

[js8793]

He already failed twice. And he basically proved @js8793 's point by listing most recent elite recruits who did not become champions. Could've added Real Woods one year to that list.

Sure second tier recruits target AA status, and are elated by multiple AAs. Not so much the elite of the elite.

But still @MSU158 marches on, apparently so caught up in himself and that he doesn't even realize how what he writes can and will be read.

He's putting on an absolute clinic in missing the point.