2023 World Championships coming up!

[MSU158]

He already failed twice. And he basically proved @js8793 's point by listing most recent elite recruits who did not become champions. Could've added Real Woods one year to that list.

Sure second tier recruits target AA status, and are elated by multiple AAs. Not so much the elite of the elite.

But still @MSU158 marches on, apparently so caught up in himself and that he doesn't even realize how what he writes can and will be read.

I replied to two different things there, bup. It's not like I swore off the entire thread. One was you intentionally being dickish and the other was not any part of the original back and forth. So, you are quite a bit off.

Also, the other response was to 2 VERY specific words. Are you honestly trying to tell me Their performances were not "producing" and "brutal"?

Finally, NO top 100 recruit targets AA status. The overwhelming wrestling mindset always makes DI NCAA Champ their goal. But, the smart ones know what it takes and how hard it is to just AA. When they look back at their careers, most will realize how hard it was to get onto the podium that many times...

 

[WildTurk]

He already failed twice. And he basically proved @js8793 's point by listing most recent elite recruits who did not become champions. Could've added Real Woods one year to that list.

Sure second tier recruits target AA status, and are elated by multiple AAs. Not so much the elite of the elite.

But still @MSU158 marches on, apparently so caught up in himself and that he doesn't even realize how what he writes can and will be read.

He is a good poster for the most part imo. He just gets carried away with defending himself. I've done it before myself.

I also think he truly does love to "debate" so that always comes off as him being argumentative. To be fair js8793 is similar in that regard. They should just pm each other and let all of their extensive wrestling knowledge poor out there.

 

[MSU158]

He's putting on an absolute clinic in missing the point.

Learn how to make a point without using 100% inaccurate wording and I will be happy to agree with you...

 

[js8793]

He is a good poster for the most part imo. He just gets carried away with defending himself. I've done it before myself.

I also think he truly does love to "debate" so that always comes off as him being argumentative. To be fair js8793 is similar in that regard. They should just pm each other and let all of their extensive wrestling knowledge poor out there.

I DO NOT LOVE TO DEBATE

 

[MSU158]

He is a good poster for the most part imo. He just gets carried away with defending himself. I've done it before myself.

I also think he truly does love to "debate" so that always comes off as him being argumentative. To be fair js8793 is similar in that regard. They should just pm each other and let all of their extensive wrestling knowledge poor out there.

Thanks, and I will try to stick to my word this time. I will simply try harder to avoid the "bait" that will inevitably come out shortly!

 

[js8793]

Thanks, and I will try to stick to my word this time. I will simply try harder to avoid the "bait" that will inevitably come out shortly!

and I apologize for calling you an idiot. in my defense, i am a chicago bears fan and life is pain.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

He's putting on an absolute clinic in missing the point.

But he will call others obtuse. He's like a case study of a lack of self-awareness.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

I DO NOT LOVE TO DEBATE

That's not debate, it's contradiction.

 

[MSU158]

and I apologize for calling you an idiot. in my defense, i am a chicago bears fan and life is pain.

No worries, my man. I truly mean it when I say I take no offense to the back and forth on here and I hope no one takes offense from what I type. I honestly do enjoy it and try very hard to avoid insulting or making it personal. It would take a lot for me to truly take it personally and, even then, all I have to do is remind myself it is coming from an anonymous source...

 

[js8793]

That's not debate, it's contradiction.

I disagree and I'll tell you why

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

I disagree and I'll tell you why

It's a Monty Python reference to an Argument bit

 

[el dub]

He already failed twice. And he basically proved @js8793 's point by listing most recent elite recruits who did not become champions. Could've added Real Woods one year to that list.

Sure second tier recruits target AA status, and are elated by multiple AAs. Not so much the elite of the elite.

But still @MSU158 marches on, apparently so caught up in himself and that he doesn't even realize how what he writes can and will be read.

I think he realizes what he types.

 

[Sett1997]

Snyder likely would've beat Sadulaev a couple days ago. There is 0 shame in Losing to Sidakov 10-7 in the world finals. Dake didn't look that out of shape to me. Chest wrapping from your butt is very common in freestyle and has worked a lot in the past from Kyle Dake and his impressive strength. I will agree he tried it a little too much this tournament. Dake is 32 now aswell. Not making excuses for him, just noting father time doesn't stop

I watched his interview, Dake knew exactly how he screwed up. He's shrewd as can be. We will see a different game plan in the Olympics if they meet again.

 

[Sett1997]

The first chest wrap in Yazdani-Taylor could have been scored either way and basically decided the match. That was very close.

The idea that a chest wrap is a bad move because it doesn't always work is wrong. That goes for every move. Tazhudinov broke open his match against Snyder with a big chest wrap defending a double.

The other part of this is that a lot of times (like the Dake match) guys end up in that position as a last resort because the attack beat their first lines of defense.

If you watch the Dake match, Sidakov gets in deep -> Dake squats and tries to drop weight on Sidakov with his hips while finding an angle -> Sidakov drops back hand to the ankle, elevates, and sits Dake to his butt. That exact sequence happened both times. From there Dake is just trying to hold on for a stalemate or mistake from Sidakov.

I disagree on the call deciding the match. Taylor down 5 to Yaz with a whole period left is certainly far from a safe lead. Taylor may be the best wrestler in the world right now.
The man is a scoring machine when necessary.

 

[pablow]

 

[lookleft goright]

In every debate I have ever had on this I happily say Cael would have won at ISU. But, there is NO WAY IN HELL it would have been nearly the success he has had at PSU. You could put Burroughs, Dake, Taylor and Snyder as the coaching staff at ISU and, in many ways, they will still be second fiddle to Iowa. Being an MSU guy to my bone marrow I am keenly aware of this factor simply by UofM also being in this state. You simply do not give enough inherent value to what being the number 1 program in a state means...

I think you are wrong there. ISU would have been the new shiny thing in Iowa if Cael stayed there and a lot of the in state talent would have went there as well as out of state talent. ISU was the star program for years before Gable went there. The right coach makes all the difference.

 

[lookleft goright]

They won't start recruiting at that level until they start proving they can produce champs. So in the meantime, they need to start chipping away with the guys they do have. Ayala, Arnold, Ferrari, and Kueter need to win championships. Real Woods needs to win next year to get it started.

It's not like Iowa isn't recruiting anybody. They're just not producing. No titles out of Kemerer, Marinelli, Eierman, and Warner is brutal. When they start producing with what they have, they can start making a better argument for themselves to recruits. And that's where things like facilities can start working as tie-breakers. But they have to get in striking distance for that to matter at all.

For a football analogy, it's like spending high draft picks on positions like guard, linebacker, safety, etc...They may be great players, but until you have strength at the foundational positions (QB, OT, Edge, WR), you're not going to get all of your desired value out them.

TO say they are not producing is a bit misleading and a bit of an over simplification. But to say they are not producing enough to be the number 1 choice of the best blue chip recruits in the country, is very true.

When Gable was around, the Hawks were the school of choice for the best of the best. Now that place is PSU.

The Hawks had one of their best recruiting classes when they were winning titles recently. Part of the reason was the strength of the Iowa high school wrestlers, but the other part was kids were believing in the Hawks again.

By the way, I agree totally with the sentence after the one I put in bold print and I think we both agree on the situation, but I feel you might need a little help with MSU on this post. He is not willing to take yes for an answer.

 

[Psalm 1 guy]

Congrats to Amit Elor and her family! World Champion forever!

Amit has the potential to wrestle in at least four Olympic cycles as she will only be 32 for the 2036 Olympics (for comparison, Adeline and Helen will be 33 and 32 respectively for the 2024 Olympics). By my calculations she also potentially has 17 total senior and age group world championships and Olympics available to her during that time frame. This is obviously so far into the future that it is anyone's guess how her career progresses or how long she decides to compete, but the potential to watch her compete for so many more years is great as a wrestling fan.

Since 2021 Amit has competed in seven Senior and age group World Championships, winning seven gold medals: Cadet (1), Junior (1), U20 (2), U23 (1) and Seniors (2). In those seven tournaments she outscored her opponents 167-7 with five falls.

 

[MSU158]

He is not willing to take yes for an answer.

That depends on the question and who is asking/answering!

 

[dmlawdad]

Time to exit the thread. MSU158 is about to write another book about how he is correct.

Very entertaining World's this year! Proud of all the athletes that represented Team USA. I'm glad I was able to watch most of it. Looking forward to Olympic wrestling next year! ✌️

But Grizzly Adams did have a beard!

 

[MSU158]

But Grizzly Adams did have a beard!

He did? Prove it!

 

[WrestleEveryDay]

Snyder likely would've beat Sadulaev a couple days ago. There is 0 shame in Losing to Sidakov 10-7 in the world finals. Dake didn't look that out of shape to me. Chest wrapping from your butt is very common in freestyle and has worked a lot in the past from Kyle Dake and his impressive strength. I will agree he tried it a little too much this tournament. Dake is 32 now aswell. Not making excuses for him, just noting father time doesn't stop

Dake can and will continue to dominate with the chest wrap, but from a seated position isn't wise. It cost Parris a trip to the finals too. As for Sidakov, the only thing Dake has to regret (if that's even the right word) is that seated chest wrap. As for Snyder, I don't believe he would've beaten Sadulaev (if Sad is healthy). Not trying to nitpick when the team wins a title. Just have my opinions.

 

[WrestleEveryDay]

She is an absolute MONSTER. A lot can happen and she has a long ways to go, but she sure looks like she may be the best woman to ever wrestle for the USA by the time she is done!

I think she's p4p #1 in the World for the ladies.

 

[WildTurk]

Dake can and will continue to dominate with the chest wrap, but from a seated position isn't wise. It cost Parris a trip to the finals too. As for Sidakov, the only thing Dake has to regret (if that's even the right word) is that seated chest wrap. As for Snyder, I don't believe he would've beaten Sadulaev (if Sad is healthy). Not trying to nitpick when the team wins a title. Just have my opinions.

The only reason I thought Snyder would beat Sadulaev a few days ago was because how Sadulaev looked right out of the gate. Out of shape and sluggish. I've read he also had a neck injury? A healthy Sadulaev beats Snyder most every time now

 

[WrestleEveryDay]

There was a time when Taylor would get horsed a bit on those(Heflin did it to him a couple times for example).

That must have been before the Treining Lab...

 

[BulldogBailey]

That must have been before the Treining Lab...

Wouldn't mind seeing the Hawks utilize the Treining Lab or something equivalent [assuming they don't already]

 

[js8793]

The only reason I thought Snyder would beat Sadulaev a few days ago was because how Sadulaev looked right out of the gate. Out of shape and sluggish. I've read he also had a neck injury? A healthy Sadulaev beats Snyder most every time now

Russians are saying the neck injury could be career threatening. Already had surgery.

 

[WildTurk]

Russians are saying the neck injury could be career threatening. Already had surgery.

Well that's terrible news. Hopefully he is able to heal and compete again

 

[T8KUDWN]

Well that's terrible news. Hopefully he is able to heal and compete again

There was talk it was possibly some type of tumor. Hopefully that's not the case.

 

[js8793]

There was talk it was possibly some type of tumor. Hopefully that's not the case.

They ruled out the tumor fortunately. Eric Olanowski (UWW comms guy) tweeted out it's the same injury that ended Tsargush and Murtazaliev's careers. Sounds like a severe disc herniation.

 

[T8KUDWN]

They ruled out the tumor fortunately. Eric Olanowski (UWW comms guy) tweeted out it's the same injury that ended Tsargush and Murtazaliev's careers. Sounds like a severe disc herniation.

That's a tough son of a gun, just stepping on the mat to compete and then making it all the way to the semis with that type of injury.

 

[Nashville_Hawkeye]

I know I said I was out, but this is such pure garbage I can't let it go by.

1.)Kemerer 3rd,4th,2nd,5th
2.)Marinelli 7th,6th,R12,5th
3.)Eierman 2nd, injury default
4.)Warner 7th,4th,2nd,5th

If not for major injuries at the end of the season all 4 AA EVERY time they wrestled for Iowa. That isn't remotely "brutal" and is FAR from not producing. It is ridiculously hard to AA that many times and even that much harder win an Indy.

No recruit with a brain is going to look at those 4 you listed and say Iowa isn't "producing" and their results with top 10 recruits are "brutal"...

FWIW in my very humble opinion, these four examples are doing nothing to win your argument....just the opposite I'm thinking. And I'm not trying to pick sides and I love the men you mentioned.

 

[Inthecircle]

He did? Prove it!

 

[MSU158]

FWIW in my very humble opinion, these four examples are doing nothing to win your argument....just the opposite I'm thinking. And I'm not trying to pick sides and I love the men you mentioned.

Then you don’t even understand what my argument even was. In no imaginable way is 12 AA’s and 3 Finals appearances out of 14 tries “not producing” or “brutal”.

Of course winning more titles would help recruiting. That wasn’t remotely what I was arguing against. But, to act like that level of production is “brutal” and actually hurts Iowa is beyond ridiculous.

 

[Rotisserie Scrotz]

Then you don’t even understand what my argument even was. In no imaginable way is 12 AA’s and 3 Finals appearances out of 14 tries “not producing” or “brutal”.

Of course winning more titles would help recruiting. That wasn’t remotely what I was arguing against. But, to act like that level of production is “brutal” and actually hurts Iowa is beyond ridiculous.

Those guys had great careers on the face of the metrics you cite, but you’re not really considering expectations in this analysis. It is “brutal” for those who expected those guys to be champs . . . and fair or not, many of us did. Going 0-14 in that department feels brutal.

 

[Psalm 1 guy]

They ruled out the tumor fortunately. Eric Olanowski (UWW comms guy) tweeted out it's the same injury that ended Tsargush and Murtazaliev's careers. Sounds like a severe disc herniation.

Looks like it may not be as bad as we were worried:

Sadulaev: Medical procedure or Propaganda?

You decided https://www.instagram.com/p/CxgflmILrXa/?igshid=MWZjMTM2ODFkZg==

intermatwrestle.com

 

[vhsalum]

Then you don’t even understand what my argument even was. In no imaginable way is 12 AA’s and 3 Finals appearances out of 14 tries “not producing” or “brutal”.

Of course winning more titles would help recruiting. That wasn’t remotely what I was arguing against. But, to act like that level of production is “brutal” and actually hurts Iowa is beyond ridiculous.

Hate to say it, but you’re wrong on this one. It gets used against ALL the time in recruiting pitches.

Same with Michigan- but parris winning helped a lot.

 

[AFHawk86]

Hate to say it, but you’re wrong on this one. It gets used against ALL the time in recruiting pitches.

Same with Michigan- but parris winning helped a lot.

It should get used. It’s about producing champions.

 

[js8793]

Hate to say it, but you’re wrong on this one. It gets used against ALL the time in recruiting pitches.

Same with Michigan- but parris winning helped a lot.

Exactly. What @MSU158 wont understand is the very obvious fact that elite recruits would look at those careers as a failure. It’s NCAA title or failure. And Iowa has shown it’s not a school to go to if you want to be a champ.

One champ since 2017 and even he has become (yes it’s not fair) the poster boy for Iowa’s injury and training mismanagement.

And as MSU correctly states, they have to close the recruiting gap and to do that elite kids have to believe they can win titles here.

So yes, those guys didn’t produce. Harsh standard? Yeah, but that’s the reality.

 

[js8793]

Looks like it may not be as bad as we were worried:

Sadulaev: Medical procedure or Propaganda?

You decided https://www.instagram.com/p/CxgflmILrXa/?igshid=MWZjMTM2ODFkZg==

intermatwrestle.com

this is just a message board thread. anytime someone gets neck surgery, it’s serious.