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**************2024 All Class High School Football Thread***************

I haven't followed HS football in years and know even less of the 8-man pairing structure.

Can you briefly explain the criteria?
For starters,

- 32 teams qualify for the playoffs again (8-P through 2A)

- In 8-P only......there's 10 districts thus making an odd set-up for pairings.

- That's why the 10 district champs face the 10 district 3rd place teams; it looks like the top 2 teams in the rankings get to face the two At-Large teams; then the remaining two district 3rd place teams get paired with two district runners-up (doesn't seem to be anything to it other than geography); and the remaining district runners-up face each other to round out the 1st Rd, with the D2 vs D2 tiebreakers being 1. district wins 2. 17 pt +/- differential

-Imho, I'd rather see them go to 28 teams and just have the top two teams in each district automatically qualify, and then have the next 8 teams be At-Large based on the 17+ pt differential, since they're pretty set on using that awful indicator for determining the strength of a team

It seems bizarre 2 teams with losing records get at-large bids but 2 teams with winning records do not.
That's the major flaw with relying solely on A. district finish, B. the 17+ pt differential, and then C. the f***ing alphabet.........for your tiebreakers.

There are good teams at the top in every district, but they vary wildly in depth after that, and there's just no real good metric to determine the strength of a team. Judging how good a team is based on how they do against other bad teams in their own district is no way at all to determine who deserves an "at-large" bid over another team from an entirely separate district with zero comparative factors between the two.

The main detraction I see in the 17+ pt differential tiebreaker is that it actually favors weak districts compared to tougher districts, because again it does nothing to truly establish comparative strength. What happened with Exira-EHK and Tripoli is that they finished with next highest amount of district wins outside the Dist. 3rd place teams, AND had the best 17+ pt differential of all the teams in that bubble. It doesn't mean they were better than Colo-Nesco or Baxter or Boyer Valley, etc. Just that they did enough to meet the State's criteria compared to the others.

I also don't like that the non-district schedule is essentially irrelevant in the eyes of the Association, merely because they don't want to deal with the potentially subjective factors of determining overall schedule strength/strength of a team's non-district schedule, particularly when it comes to determining postseason status.

On the one hand, their way is fairly cut and dry. Win a lot of games in your district and win by as much as possible.......................

Unfortunately, that method isn't going to result in perfect pairings for the playoffs, especially when you also want to add "at-large" teams.

Also looking through the pairings and digging into schedules a bit, it seems Bedford got screwed. Losing 1 game to the #1 team in the class and gets rewarded with a 3 hour road trip?

On the flip side of that, Belle Plaine went 3-1 vs playoff teams and draws a top 10 opponent?

Looking at box scores, it seems talent at this level is wildly disparate. I see the 17 point differential thing, but is that the only criteria to determine strength of schedule? (Yep....)
Like I said, they want nothing to do with establishing value in a team's non-district schedule (even though they do it for the biggest classes)................

Here's two different examples of difficult schedules:

Siouxland Christian played arguably the toughest schedule pound-for-pound maybe in the state, all classes. Those poor bastards played 5 teams that are in the playoffs this year, including teams that were or currently are ranked #1 in the rankings depending on where you look (Bishop Garrigan, Remsen-St. Mary's). They also faced a 6 win Boyer Valley team and a Newell-Fonda program that typically is solid most years.

The team that played the next toughest schedule is St. Edmond. They went 5-3 and all 3 losses were to top 10 teams, including losses to Bishop Garrigan and Audubon when both were ranked #1.

I mention that because it is VERY rare in any class (well, outside of 5A and maybe 4A) that a team would see one #1 ranked team, let alone TWO in a single regular season schedule. Siouxland Christian faced FOUR unanimous top 10 teams.

Those two teams merely get a pat on the back. In St. Edmond's case, they were able to weather it and finish 2nd in their district. Siouxland Christian got nothing to show for it. Yes, in terms of facing tough competition, it helped them, or at least in St. Edmond's case it would appear. But to the State, playing those schedules, at least on paper, and as it bears any significance to making the postseason, gets them nothing for their non-district matchups, and they can only be punished by playing tough opponents within their district because that most likely means it's gonna keep their +/- differential down regardless if they win or lose.

I understand why they only want the 17+ pt differential to factor in district games (again because of the disparity in schedules), but they really do need to figure something out to better-determine strength of a team/strength of schedule (and overall schedule) at least in 8-Player considering they are pairing teams that finished the same in district play against each other, like in the case of Bedford where they're a Dist. runner-up facing another Dist. runner-up.



Sorry for the tl;dr. ;)
 
2024 Class 1A 1st Round-
(District 1st vs District 4th)
Ogden (2-6) at #2 Dike-New Hartford (7-1)
Eddyville-Blakesburg-Fremont (2-6) at #1 Grundy Center (8-0)
Hudson (5-3) at Manson-Northwest Webster (7-1)
Shenandoah (3-5) at #10 OA/BCIG (6-2)
West Branch (2-6) at #8 Sigourney-Keota (7-1)
West Sioux (3-5) at #9 Treynor (7-1)
Aplington-Parkersburg (2-6) at #4 Wilton (7-1)
East Sac County (3-5) at Woodward-Granger (7-1)

(District 2nd vs District 3rd)
#5 Hinton (7-1) at AHSTW (6-2)
Sumner-Fredericksburg (5-3) at Beckman Catholic, Dyersville (6-2)
Grand View Christian (5-3) at #3 Emmetsburg (7-1)
Alburnett (5-3) at MFL-MarMac (6-2)
#7 Iowa City Regina (7-1) at Pleasantville (6-2)
Underwood (4-4) at Ridge View (6-2)
Sioux Central (5-3) at South Hamilton (4-4)
Pella Christian (3-5) at #6 South Hardin (7-1)
 
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For starters,

- 32 teams qualify for the playoffs again (8-P through 2A)

- In 8-P only......there's 10 districts thus making an odd set-up for pairings.

- That's why the 10 district champs face the 10 district 3rd place teams; it looks like the top 2 teams in the rankings get to face the two At-Large teams; then the remaining two district 3rd place teams get paired with two district runners-up (doesn't seem to be anything to it other than geography); and the remaining district runners-up face each other to round out the 1st Rd, with the D2 vs D2 tiebreakers being 1. district wins 2. 17 pt +/- differential

-Imho, I'd rather see them go to 28 teams and just have the top two teams in each district automatically qualify, and then have the next 8 teams be At-Large based on the 17+ pt differential, since they're pretty set on using that awful indicator for determining the strength of a team


That's the major flaw with relying solely on A. district finish, B. the 17+ pt differential, and then C. the f***ing alphabet.........for your tiebreakers.

There are good teams at the top in every district, but they vary wildly in depth after that, and there's just no real good metric to determine the strength of a team. Judging how good a team is based on how they do against other bad teams in their own district is no way at all to determine who deserves an "at-large" bid over another team from an entirely separate district with zero comparative factors between the two.

The main detraction I see in the 17+ pt differential tiebreaker is that it actually favors weak districts compared to tougher districts, because again it does nothing to truly establish comparative strength. What happened with Exira-EHK and Tripoli is that they finished with next highest amount of district wins outside the Dist. 3rd place teams, AND had the best 17+ pt differential of all the teams in that bubble. It doesn't mean they were better than Colo-Nesco or Baxter or Boyer Valley, etc. Just that they did enough to meet the State's criteria compared to the others.

I also don't like that the non-district schedule is essentially irrelevant in the eyes of the Association, merely because they don't want to deal with the potentially subjective factors of determining overall schedule strength/strength of a team's non-district schedule, particularly when it comes to determining postseason status.

On the one hand, their way is fairly cut and dry. Win a lot of games in your district and win by as much as possible.......................

Unfortunately, that method isn't going to result in perfect pairings for the playoffs, especially when you also want to add "at-large" teams.


Like I said, they want nothing to do with establishing value in a team's non-district schedule (even though they do it for the biggest classes)................

Here's two different examples of difficult schedules:

Siouxland Christian played arguably the toughest schedule pound-for-pound maybe in the state, all classes. Those poor bastards played 5 teams that are in the playoffs this year, including teams that were or currently are ranked #1 in the rankings depending on where you look (Bishop Garrigan, Remsen-St. Mary's). They also faced a 6 win Boyer Valley team and a Newell-Fonda program that typically is solid most years.

The team that played the next toughest schedule is St. Edmond. They went 5-3 and all 3 losses were to top 10 teams, including losses to Bishop Garrigan and Audubon when both were ranked #1.

I mention that because it is VERY rare in any class (well, outside of 5A and maybe 4A) that a team would see one #1 ranked team, let alone TWO in a single regular season schedule. Siouxland Christian faced FOUR unanimous top 10 teams.

Those two teams merely get a pat on the back. In St. Edmond's case, they were able to weather it and finish 2nd in their district. Siouxland Christian got nothing to show for it. Yes, in terms of facing tough competition, it helped them, or at least in St. Edmond's case it would appear. But to the State, playing those schedules, at least on paper, and as it bears any significance to making the postseason, gets them nothing for their non-district matchups, and they can only be punished by playing tough opponents within their district because that most likely means it's gonna keep their +/- differential down regardless if they win or lose.

I understand why they only want the 17+ pt differential to factor in district games (again because of the disparity in schedules), but they really do need to figure something out to better-determine strength of a team/strength of schedule (and overall schedule) at least in 8-Player considering they are pairing teams that finished the same in district play against each other, like in the case of Bedford where they're a Dist. runner-up facing another Dist. runner-up.



Sorry for the tl;dr. ;)
I threw the word "briefly" in there so you wouldn't have to pound all that out, but I very much appreciate the effort. Thank you!
 
2024 Class 2A 1st Round-
(District 1st vs District 4th)
Waukon (3-5) at #10 Anamosa (7-1)
Chariton (4-4) at #5 Kuemper Catholic, Carroll (7-1)
Union, LaPorte City (3-5) at Mid-Prairie, Wellman (5-3)
Monticello (2-6) at #7 North Fayette Valley (7-1)
Des Moines Christian (4-4) at #2 PCM (8-0)
Cherokee (6-2) at #3 Spirit Lake (7-1)
Albia (4-4) at #4 Van Meter (7-1)
Garner-Hayfield-Ventura (2-6) at #1 West Lyon (8-0)

(District 2nd vs District 3rd)
Greene County (4-4) at Clarinda (6-2)
Forest City (4-4) at #9 Central Lyon/George-Little Rock (5-3)
Mediapolis (4-4) at #6 Northeast, Goose Lake (7-1)
Western Christian, Hull (5-3) at Okoboji (6-2)
Jesup (4-4) at Osage (5-3)
Crestwood (3-5) at #8 Roland-Story (6-2)
Centerville (4-4) at West Burlington/Notre Dame (7-1)
West Liberty (3-5) at West Marshall (6-2)
 
Little younger than you, sis graduated’90 I did in ‘94. Would’ve graduated with the youngest Coyle but they ended up moving to Colorado good basket ball players
Grew up next door to Rich Stockton. Good friend of mine growing up had an older sister that dated and still married to Mike Noble. Guy was a beast when I was young.
Wow. Ol' Doodle knew there was something redeeming about you! 😁

Doodle played football and baseball with Mike and football with his late brother Dan (also class of 86). Doodle overlapped with a couple of Coyles, including the oldest, Jeff, the 7-footer who played college ball at Toledo.
 
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I'm surprised W-G isn't ranked (1A D7)
They may be ranked in the AP poll. I'd have to check. They're receiving votes in a number of them.

I used the IAHSAA rankings, because that's what they go by, not that it has any bearing on seeding/pairings etc, outside of who got to face the two at-large teams in 8-Man from the looks of it.
 
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Undefeated Decorah lost their senior starting QB for the rest of the season to a broken collarbone on Friday. Feel horrible for the kid. Injuries suck!

The backup is decent but was the backup for a reason. Don’t want to count them out, but it could have been a really special season if he didn’t get hurt.
 
Sorry, but I don't think 2-6 and 3-5 teams should be playoff bound.
Well, more coaches thought it'd be better to play than have a bye, so this is the compromise as 16 was also felt to be too few in these small-school classes.

Of course, 16 is even right on the fringe of not enough in 4A, and if we're being honest it's too many in 5A................
 
Not football related. But the girls BB coach at Tri Center is a very good friend of mine. Derek Sonderland a great guy and Coach.
Well alrighty then... buy me a beer.

Happy Hour Drinking GIF by Busch
 
Not football related. But the girls BB coach at Tri Center is a very good friend of mine. Derek Sonderland a great guy and Coach.
I know him well. Used to play men’s league basketball with him many years ago. Now my son plays with his son on the TC team.
 
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Oh, btw. Tri-Center won their first playoff game in school history last night over South Central Calhoun 41-0. Riverside up next.
 
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I know. I lived down there for a few years at the height of the "everyone's recruiting!!!" debate wars.

Regina was a huge pariah around that time and it only got worse as they kept winning championships.

Surprisingly, they haven't taken much from us. They have a couple kids, some that were going to be big players for their sports. Others that were not ever going to see significant time and wanted to be a starter.

West Branch has a ton of Liberty kids now. They sometimes get referred to as the JV squad. It's crazy how many are over there for sports.

The crazy thing is some of these coaches in the area now are so brazen that they leave recipts. They text players and then the kids show their coaches. It's nuts.
 
Johnston's rolling into the postseason on quite a streak.

Now what's this silly pod thing for the playoffs? How are two games already set?
 
Johnston's rolling into the postseason on quite a streak.

Now what's this silly pod thing for the playoffs? How are two games already set?
They are listed as pods, but it’s just a sixteen team playoff bracket. It’s no different than any other traditional bracket until you get to the dome. Then they reseed.
 
I figured but it's a very touchy subject around here...
Okay, so you’re a Liberty guy.

I have a kid at Ankeny, and I need you to explain something to me. We just played Wash…how, in the hell, did the Liberty v Wash game end with the score that it did?

Did you play incredibly bad? Did you play flawless against Ankeny? Both?
 
Which puts cross town rivals the Liberty Lightning as the RPI #1 team in the state. Last season we didn't even make the playoffs. That's a phenomenal turnaround.
So will this be the year in 5A when teams outside of the DM burbs show they can compete with the CIML? 7 of the 8 1st round games feature CIML teams, so we'll have a good idea right off the bat.

At least 2 non-CIML teams need to make the semis to show the current RPI rankings aren't complete bs. Otherwise it's like the Lil 12 conference where their ratings are inflated because they don't play many legit top teams.
 
They are listed as pods, but it’s just a sixteen team playoff bracket. It’s no different than any other traditional bracket until you get to the dome. Then they reseed.
If you want to get technical, it's essentially multiple 4 team playoffs to decide who advances to the semifinals/UNI-Dome. Geography is still a factor, but does not take up nearly as much of the pie as it used to.

For example, Iowa City Regina has to drive a little over 2 hrs to go play Woodward-Granger when there were closer options. Sumner-Fredericksburg has to drive 2.5 hrs to play Manson-Northwest Webster when there were closer options.
 
So will this be the year in 5A when teams outside of the DM burbs show they can compete with the CIML? 7 of the 8 1st round games feature CIML teams, so we'll have a good idea right off the bat.

At least 2 non-CIML teams need to make the semis to show the current RPI rankings aren't complete bs. Otherwise it's like the Lil 12 conference where their ratings are inflated because they don't play many legit top teams.
Or CIML teams could just stop winning. Doesn't always have to be on non-CIML teams to do all the work..........
 
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Decorah easily beat Waterloo East last night with a backup QB to finish the season undefeated. Pretty good for a first year coach.
East is horrible and has been for awhile. The vote to consolidate with west is coming up soon. Any players east had that are worth a shit get plucked away by other schools like CF. The system is broken imo.
 
That would be a combined enrollment of 2674, significantly higher than even Valley. That doesn't seem at all reasonable in terms of facilities, student:faculty, geographic area, etc...
 
That would be a combined enrollment of 2674, significantly higher than even Valley. That doesn't seem at all reasonable in terms of facilities, student:faculty, geographic area, etc...
They're building a new campus. No idea what the plans are for their old facilities between W. East and W. West.
 
Haha fair question. Both East and West are a shadow of their former selves, but I was referencing the free agency we have now in high school sports. I’m guessing not a lot of students transfer to other schools for robotics, band, or show choir, but I could be wrong.

We had a kid transfer in for 8th grade, moved to another for 9th, and then back to his original 7th grade school for 10th.

I have to wonder how much of it is his idea or his Dad.

We had another dad move his son in middle school because they wouldn't let him coach. He posts all his kids workouts online and goes on and on how amazing his son is. I feel bad for the kid; while he's not a bad athlete he's clearly not a D1 athlete and daddy has been filling his head that he'll be playing in Kinnick some day.

I love being a HS football dad.
I hate the Dad's who ruin it.
 
So will this be the year in 5A when teams outside of the DM burbs show they can compete with the CIML? 7 of the 8 1st round games feature CIML teams, so we'll have a good idea right off the bat.

At least 2 non-CIML teams need to make the semis to show the current RPI rankings aren't complete bs. Otherwise it's like the Lil 12 conference where their ratings are inflated because they don't play many legit top teams.

There is some hyper inflation going on with some RPI's. Waterloo West for example... good year for them and kudos to winning those games but they will be beaten by 21+. I love my Bolts but I would guess Valley should be 1. Ultimately it won't matter as they will all meet up in the dome unless upsets happen.

There were a fair amount of games between the two sides this year. Liberty already beat Ankeny. I feel like it's closer than normal anyway...
 
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