A 9-hour drive in Toyota's new electric SUV showed me how brutal EV road trips can be with the wrong car.

[SA_Hawk]

We won't need them for most transportation for anywhere near that long.

How are my wife and I getting to Paris next summer? On a sailboat?

 

[Tenacious E]

I got my first PHEV recently and I really like it. I can go fully electric for short around town trip, go eco mode on longer trips or switch into a mode with more kick.

I think Iowa is tough a bit for EV's because of the cold. I had a Prius for some time and the cold really effected it. The PHEV will be as well, but it would still deal better with Winter. In a warm climate they would be a lot easier to own.

I have a good friend who is ALL in with Tesla with his S. Loves it. But, he is the first to admit that performance of the batteries is drastically reduced in the dead of winter.

 

[SA_Hawk]

Sure see a lot of people driving SUVs and trucks that cost well over $60k and get shit gas mileage but all of a sudden $40k for a model 3 is some barrier.

Bull Fing Shit

We both drive from Miami to Seattle with you in an EV and me in an gas SUV. How many days do I beat you to Seattle by?

 

[billanole]

Why do people stake their political identity on eliminating fossil fuels?

We will need fossil fuels for the next 100-150 years minimum.

If human civilization is still around, there will be specialized uses for fossil fuels. Lubricants, for instance.
Use for transportation will be dark ages shit.

 

[onlyTheObvious]

We both drive from Miami to Seattle with you in an EV and me in a gas SUV. How many days do I beat you to Seattle by?

How many people do that?

Teslas charge fast. It will charge while you eat.

Dont get one. I don’t give shit. I hope you are not one of posters pissing and moaning about the environment. You likely don’t need an SUV.

If it’s a race for big money I will just rent a private jet and take your money and beat you by a couple days.

 

[JRHawk2003]

How many new nuclear power plants are we building to get ahead of future EV needs? 10, 20 or 0?

I am looking into setting up the home charging with a solar panel. I am thinking of some for my house in general.

I made major reductions in carbon footprint in the last few years. Gotta practice what I preach.

 

[onlyTheObvious]

I have a good friend who is ALL in with Tesla with his S. Loves it. But, he is the first to admit that performance of the batteries is drastically reduced in the dead of winter.

Many are now adding a heat pump standard to counteract that.

 

[The Tradition]

If human civilization is still around, there will be specialized uses for fossil fuels. Lubricants, for instance.
Use for transportation will be dark ages shit.

The device you sent that message from is full of plastic that was created from... petroleum products.

 

[billanole]

The device you sent that message from is full of plastic that was created from... petroleum products.

Yeah, so what? You always have a little bit of “gotcha” in your hitch. Gidee up.
The first phones were made with Bakelite. Do you really think other materials won’t materialize?

Baekeland developed a material from phenol resin and wood dust as filler, which was mouldable, and would heat-cure to become robust and stable.

Bakelite Telephone - Materials - Materials Library

The Institute of Making is a cross-disciplinary research club for those interested in the made world: from makers of molecules to makers of buildings, synthetic skin to spacecraft, soup to diamonds, socks to cities.

www.instituteofmaking.org.uk

 

[Tenacious E]

Narrator: "But there, indeed, have been massive breakthroughs in batteries. For the past decade"

Look, I’m rooting for it. Hope it happens.

 

[JRHawk2003]

Someone who gets this better than me;

How can we have hydrogen buses and not cars?

 

[The Tradition]

Someone who gets this better than me;

How can we have hydrogen buses and not cars?

Dubya was all-in with the hydrogen fuel-cell technology... so of course that went nowhere.

 

[SoDakHawk]

Its still possible we could see another technology like hydrogen move forward. Hydrogen works in buses in some places already.

This is where I'm at. EV just has so many limitations and issues. An alternative like hydrogen might be the key and winner in the end.

 

[Chewback]

And a chevy spark holds 1 malnutritioned person and a carry on bag.


EVs are perfectly adequate to go around town or to run short errands.

Timed a fuel stop in our personal car and it takes approximately four minutes. No contest.

There are two factors that come in to play that may not be considered by the buyer:

• What power is used to charge the car?
• How are the batteries made and what happens when they are disposed?

Unless you have your own solar generator, the likelihood is that the electric car is actually being charged by coal or gas power, which are the most prevalent power generating stations in the world. They are also the most heavily polluting. We are not saying that one or two electric cars will create an issue, but the addition of hundreds of thousands or millions will put a strain on these plants, increasing pollution on their end.

Along with that, the nickel-hydride batteries that are in electric cars are created in a number of heavy polluting processes like nickel mining. The nickel-hydride batteries also contain possible carcinogens, according to How Stuff Works. To complete the battery construction process, they are shipped all over the world which adds additional pollutants.

Disposal of the batteries are also an issue. With toxic materials within, the incorrect disposal by a junkyard or manufacturer could destroy the ecosystem of an area for generations.

Butbutbut they told me they were GREEN!! That sounds nasty!!

Ok yeah, I already knew all that but it seems everybody is convinced EVs are the answer. I'll stick with my V8.

 

[JRHawk2003]

i

This is where I'm at. EV just has so many limitations and issues. An alternative like hydrogen might be the key and winner in the end.

For me its a process. I went from higher mileage gas car to hybrid, now to plug in hybrid, and probably will go EV someday, but another 5 years likely will make them a lot better.

 

[Hawki97]

Giving yourself a zing. Loser.

NC coming to white knight NC!

Nice job keeping track of your accounts broseph!

 

[billanole]

Butbutbut they told me they were GREEN!! That sounds nasty!!

Ok yeah, I already knew all that but it seems everybody is convinced EVs are the answer. I'll stick with my V8.

Butbutbut they told me they were GREEN!! That sounds nasty!!

Ok yeah, I already knew all that but it seems everybody is convinced EVs are the answer. I'll stick with my V8.

Ask yer boy Pete for a link to the EV Spark.

 

[DropitlikeitsHawk]

NC coming to white knight NC!

Nice job keeping track of your accounts broseph!

I don’t know who that is or what that means. Good try.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

The problem though is how many chargers are there?

Do you have to wait in line 90 min to get at one?

With Tesla chargers, one can see how many stalls at the charging station and how many are occupied.

Then another 90 while yours charges?

Typical Supercharger is 30-40 minutes.

Are you spending all your time planning the trip around these charging stations where as gas stations are everywhere….

That has not been my experience with thr Model Y. It is super easy. Wherever you want to go, you just plug in the destination. The car will determine a route and show charging stations along the way. It will show how much charge you start with, how much charge you will have when you get to the station, how long the charge will be and what percentage you will be at when you proceed again, not typical to charge to 100%, just however much you need to proceed, normally 70-80%. This all happens within about 2 seconds of entering a destination. The navigation and route planning is all free, no subscription to any third party service.

when does our supply of lithium run out?

Lithium is plentiful. India just found the third largest deposit in the world just by looking around.



Then there is Lithium here in the US. California site dubbed the “Lithium Valley”

Newsom touts Imperial County's 'Lithium Valley' as future in green energy

The Imperial Valley has one of the largest lithium deposits in the world.

www.kpbs.org

The sunbaked valley has one of the world's largest lithium deposits, leading to the moniker "Lithium Valley." The California Energy Commission estimates there’s enough lithium in the Imperial Valley to meet all of the United States' projected demand and 40% of the world’s demand.

Will we be dependent on foreign countries for lithium?

No

Where do we get rid of huge spent lithium batteries?

Redwood Materials.

Hopefully there is better batteries on the horizon. I am not anti-ev, just think there is a long way to go before it is a good option….

They have already come a long way.

 

[efg2008]

Literally what "infrastructure investment" means.

But Komrade Pete doesn't want you to know this; he wants you buying Russian and Saudi gas to prop up his employers.

Wow, Joes Place. You aren't well.

 

[Hawki97]

I don’t know who that is or what that means. Good try.

It’s because you’re an idiot. Keep up and be better douche.

 

[DropitlikeitsHawk]

It’s because you’re an idiot. Be better douche.

You’re the one thinking I’m someone I’m not. Be smarter jerk off.

 

[Pete Malloy]

Sure see a lot of people driving SUVs and trucks that cost well over $60k and get shit gas mileage but all of a sudden $40k for a model 3 is some barrier.

Bull Fing Shit

Some people need more space than a 4 wheel shoe box (model 3) affords them. Most want 4 wheel drive and want something that they have the option of refueling just about anywhere. Did I also mention most like heat and air conditioning.

 

[BioHawk]

If almost everybody could fill up your car with gas at home how busy would gas stations be?

If you can’t charge up your EV at home 80-100% of the time I wouldn’t get one.

I'm talking on long trips. But you are right, if they went to replaceable batteries they would probably take away the ability to charge your own vehicle at home which would make it just as impractical. Also, anyone living in an apartment or parked their car on the street will have issues charging at home.

 

[Hawki97]

You’re the one thinking I’m someone I’m not. Be smarter jerk off.

Sure NC. Quit being such a little bitch and own it.

 

[DropitlikeitsHawk]

Sure NC. Quit being such a little bitch and own it.

You’re a fvcking moron. This is great.

 

[Hawki97]

You’re a fvcking moron. This is great.

I agree. I love a good name calling session with the special simpleton folk of HORT. Shall we bring your whore mom into this?

 

[DropitlikeitsHawk]

I agree. I love a good name calling session with the special simpleton folk of HORT. Shall we bring your whore mom into this?

Up to you fella.

 

[Hawki97]

Up to you fella.

Good response bub…I thought you’d get all mad and piss your pants. You’re growing.

 

[NoleATL]

• I drove the new Toyota bZ4X electric SUV from New York to Washington DC, and back.
• The nine-hour drive involved three hours of charging.
• I learned the hard way that sometimes you need to choose between staying warm and maximizing range.

Electric cars are quick, quiet, and kind to the planet, but limited range and lengthy charging times mean road trips aren't exactly their strong suit.

That's what I learned when I took Toyota's new bZ4X SUV from New York to Washington D.C. one weekend in early April. The 500-mile journey wasn't some epic coast-to-coast adventure, but rather the kind of long-haul drive someone might casually take a few times per year and not think twice about — if they're behind the wheel of a regular gas car.

t's nerd out for just one moment to establish some basic concepts.

Every EV has a maximum charging rate, expressed in kilowatts (kW), that governs the amount of power it can accept from roadside fast chargers. For the bZ4X AWD I tested, that's an uncompetitive 100 kW. The higher an EV's rating, the faster you can hypothetically charge — so long as you find a charging plug whose rating is equal or greater.

But you don't always achieve that max charge rate due to the charger, the temperature of the battery, or, in my case, settings built into the vehicle itself. During my trip, the car never got close to 100 kW, leading to some excruciating charging times.

Toyota engineered the SUV to prioritize battery longevity, a spokesperson said, which means putting a damper on fast charging, which can accelerate battery wear.

On the way down to D.C, I pulled into an Electrify America station with a 37% charge, looking to add just enough energy to make it the rest of the way. The Toyota refused to pull more than 35 kW, so just getting to 74% took a full 45 minutes of waiting around — not exactly something you want to do at night when you still have hours of driving ahead of you.

That stint added 95 miles of range, according to the SUV's estimates. But highway speeds sap energy quickly, so in real-world terms, it was probably more like 75.

On the return trip, I stopped at an EVgo station with 6% remaining. This time, the Toyota wouldn't budge past 50 kW, so charging to 80% took an agonizing hour and 15 minutes.


Total it all up and charging stops added two hours of travel time to the roughly nine-hour trip.

But this experience isn't universal. Teslas charge quickly and benefit from an expansive, private charging network. Some Hyundai batteries can charge to nearly full in the time it takes to find a bathroom and grab some beef jerky. Many vehicles beat the Toyota's so-so 222-mile range, cutting down the frequency and urgency of pit stops.

You need to leave yourself a big range buffer​

Each time I charged up, I made sure to create a comfortable buffer between the distance Google Maps said I had left and the Toyota's remaining range, as indicated on its screen. I've run out of range too far from a charging station before, and it wasn't fun.

That turned out to be a savvy move. Factors like high speeds, inclines, and — as we'll discuss in more detail later — use of the climate settings can deplete an EV's range faster than expected. So unless you know your EV well, don't blindly trust what it tells you.

Here's an example. When I left the Electrify America station in New Jersey and set off for DC, the Toyota indicated 188 miles of range— plenty to drive the 138 miles remaining, right? Nope.

I watched my beautiful buffer wither away to just 11 miles by the time I arrived, triggering an unsettling message telling me to charge soon. A couple of wrong turns dropped my final range to just nine miles.

Since charging stations aren't nearly as abundant or well-marked as gas pumps, you need to carefully plot out your pit stops in advance to avoid a bad time.

Prepare to choose between comfort and range​

A combustion-engine car creates heat as a byproduct, so cranking up the radiator is no big deal. But electric cars use energy from their batteries to make heat, leaving drivers choosing between maximum range and maximum comfort.

I hit the road back to New York on a chilly morning with 176 miles of range. When I went to turn on the heat, the indicated range plummeted to 125 miles. The options became: Stay toasty and charge twice, or endure the cold and stick with the planned one-stop strategy. Given the bZ4X's lackluster range and my previous, lengthy experiences charging it, I went with the latter.

I bundled up and relied mostly on the seat and steering-wheel warmers (which are more efficient than the regular heater) to make things almost bearable. I'd be lying if I said I didn't curse these silly electric cars under my breath once or twice.

But the electric future seems inevitable at this point, so we might as well learn to live with it.

MSN

Someone had to take a road trip to figure this out? This exact reason is why I don't own one and my next vehicle will be a hybrid unless soon there is a miraculous jump in batter technology. Will it get there? Yes, no doubt. It's not there now. Thankfully there are folks who will live on the bleeding edge of new technology so that it advances for the rest of us. Anyone who feels the need to constantly bash EVs would have been bashing the combustion engine when it first came out in cars. Owning and driving those things was a real pain in the arse if you can believe the history books.

 

[DropitlikeitsHawk]

Good response bub…I thought you’d get all mad and piss your pants. You’re growing.

Thanks bub. You’re not. Glad you have no idea who I am. Although I wouldn’t care.

 

[JRHawk2003]

Someone had to take a road trip to figure this out? This exact reason is why I don't own one and my next vehicle will be a hybrid unless soon there is a miraculous jump in batter technology. Will it get there? Yes, no doubt. It's not there now. Thankfully there are folks who will live on the bleeding edge of new technology so that it advances for the rest of us. Anyone who feels the need to constantly bash EVs would have been bashing the combustion engine when it first came out in cars. Owning and driving those things was a real pain in the arse if you can believe the history books.

Yep. I love my PHEV. It can be very economical if I choose, but if you put it in sport mode? It moves 0-80 pretty quick.

 

[The Tradition]

Anyone who feels the need to constantly bash EVs would have been bashing the combustion engine when it first came out in cars. Owning and driving those things was a real pain in the arse if you can believe the history books.

Hell, they're a pain in the ass today. I have a mystery "check engine" light that my mechanic can't solve.

 

[Hawki97]

Thanks bub. You’re not. Glad you have no idea who I am. Although I wouldn’t care.

I just know you’re someone I wouldn’t want to know because you seem like a douche. Sounds like we won’t be having drinks soon. Awwwww…SAD. All the best little fella!

 

[DropitlikeitsHawk]

I just know you’re someone I wouldn’t want to know because you seem like a douche. Sounds like we won’t be having drinks soon. Awwwww…SAD. All the best little fella!

Same homey! Sorry short man syndrome. Guess I won’t get to listen to a dolt

 

[Hawki97]

Same homey! Sorry short man syndrome. Guess I won’t get to listen to a dolt

*kisses*

 

[DropitlikeitsHawk]

*kisses*

Love you!!!

 

[DropitlikeitsHawk]

*kisses*

I actually do think we would enjoy a beer together. Just sayin.

 

[Hawki97]

I actually do think we would enjoy a beer together. Just sayin.

 

[DropitlikeitsHawk]

If you’re in Central Iowa I am game. I travel the state (not for b sex) I would meet up. Homey! Ha.