A couple of coach Fry questions

welding_hawk

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I was talking to a much older gentleman comparing Fry to Ferentz and he mentioned a couple of things that Fry did that Kirk would never do if true. He said that Iowa punted on 1st down while pinned pinned deep close to the goal line just to flip field positions and he actually started Chuck Long because he looked good during pre-game warm-ups. Any truth to those?
 

DogBoyRy

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I was talking to a much older gentleman comparing Fry to Ferentz and he mentioned a couple of things that Fry did that Kirk would never do if true. He said that Iowa punted on 1st down while pinned pinned deep close to the goal line just to flip field positions and he actually started Chuck Long because he looked good during pre-game warm-ups. Any truth to those?
I remember him starting tom pholsky (sp) over dan mcquire when the first string qb was hurt because mcquire looked nervous in warmups.
Long won the job in the summer/fall practices.
 

NevadaHawk

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I was talking to a much older gentleman comparing Fry to Ferentz and he mentioned a couple of things that Fry did that Kirk would never do if true. He said that Iowa punted on 1st down while pinned pinned deep close to the goal line just to flip field positions and he actually started Chuck Long because he looked good during pre-game warm-ups. Any truth to those?
HF may have considered punting on first down deep in our territory when Reggie Roby was still around. I don't recall he if actually did it.
 

HawkIDrummer

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Fry did some quirky things like punting on 3rd down as much to keep the opposition off balance and shake things up as anything. He was always playing psychology with the opposing HC. And yes, with Reggie Roby he had quite a weapon for field position.

On the first offensive possession of his tenure, the offense came out in a 4 wide set. The crowd went nuts, and even though it resulted in an incomplete pass people stood and cheered. He was making a statement to the fans, his players and the opposition. We're not laying down any more...we're playing to win. Sometimes I miss that attitude in our HC.
 
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FreddyUI

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Fry did some quirky things like punting on 3rd down as much to keep the opposition off balance and shake things up as anything. He was always playing psychology with the opposing HC. And yes, with Reggie Roby he had quite a weapon for field position.

On the first offensive possession of his tenure, the offense come out in a 4 wide set. The crowd went nuts, and even though it resulted in an incomplete pass people stood and cheered. He was making a statement to the fans, his players and the opposition. We're not laying down any more...we're playing to win. Sometimes I miss that attitude in our HC.
"we're playing to win." I wish we had that attitude in the first half this year.

BF said in an interview last summer about when IA played an undefeated MN team that they new they needed to score a lot of points they came out swinging.
 
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grayhair81

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I was talking to a much older gentleman comparing Fry to Ferentz and he mentioned a couple of things that Fry did that Kirk would never do if true. He said that Iowa punted on 1st down while pinned pinned deep close to the goal line just to flip field positions and he actually started Chuck Long because he looked good during pre-game warm-ups. Any truth to those?

May have been Arizona 82. Long started his first game against Nebraska and got beaten up pretty badly. I think (not certain) Grogan played the next week against ISU and the offense wasn't any better. I can imagine Hayden was looking for one of them to show he was the guy. Hawks won that night and the Chuck Long legend began.
 

hawkeyeinmo

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I was talking to a much older gentleman comparing Fry to Ferentz and he mentioned a couple of things that Fry did that Kirk would never do if true. He said that Iowa punted on 1st down while pinned pinned deep close to the goal line just to flip field positions and he actually started Chuck Long because he looked good during pre-game warm-ups. Any truth to those?
No, the older gentleman was “misremembering“ a bit. Never punted on 1st down. And the Chuck Long starting because he looked good in warm ups? No, but let the old guy spin the yarn.
 

cmhawks99

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I miss the "scratch where it itches" mentality

Hayden Fry was a stud and there is no Iowa as we currently know it without him:l. With that said the old “scratch where it itches mentality“ is way over done… Go back and look at how many times Iowa scored 14 points or under during his career…It will open your eyes a little bit.

Not to mention we are remarkably better versus high end teams than we ever were under Hayden!
 

ICWestfan

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Fry did some quirky things like punting on 3rd down as much to keep the opposition off balance and shake things up as anything. He was always playing psychology with the opposing HC. And yes, with Reggie Roby he had quite a weapon for field position.

On the first offensive possession of his tenure, the offense come out in a 4 wide set. The crowd went nuts, and even though it resulted in an incomplete pass people stood and cheered. He was making a statement to the fans, his players and the opposition. We're not laying down any more...we're playing to win. Sometimes I miss that attitude in our HC.
FFS. Did you make that up?
 

cmhawks99

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It was replaced by "we do what we do".

We've been fortunate to have 2 terrific coaches over the last 40+ years. But make no mistake, Hayden would beat Kirk 7 out of 10.

That seems hard to believe considering we had so much trouble historically over high-end teams… I doubt you ever went back and looked at the 20 year schedule. You probably also have never seen the stats tweeted by Mark Morehouse a few years ago. Kirk‘s record against top 25 teams is remarkably better than Hayden’s.

Its really not even marginally close… Hayden was a marvelous PR man and psychologist. Kirk F’s quote “that’s football” was predecessed by Hayden constantly and continually poor mouthing our injury situation and building the other team up to epic proportions…

People just have a hard time remembering their heroes accurately. Hayden would’ve been crucified on social media today.
 

cmhawks99

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On the first offensive possession of his tenure, the offense come out in a 4 wide set. The crowd went nuts, and even though it resulted in an incomplete pass people stood and cheered. He was making a statement to the fans, his players and the opposition. We're not laying down any more...we're playing to win. Sometimes I miss that attitude in our HC.

FWIW….

From 1979-98 there were 3.5 teams in the Big 10 with a plus .500 winning %. Obviously Ohio State & Michigan. With Penn State being a generous .5 because I think they didn’t join the Big Ten until 1994 ?! Iowa was then at 28th. The next big 10 team was 58th Wisconsin @ .48 winning percentage.

From 1999 until the present there are 8.5 Big 10 teams with winning records over that time frame. The .5 is Nebraska who we have played I think at least 11 possibly, 12 times. Iowa is at 29th Michigan State behind them at 30th, Minnesota is56th @.522 and Northwestern 62nd @.517.

Some of the Hayden was way better than Kirk crowd don’t like to hear this but the Big10 is demonstratively better now than it was back then.

And as an aside before someone tries to say the OOC was way better… There were a ton of piss poor Kent states & Northern Illinois and Drakes & UTEPs & Cincinnati’s, built in there etc. etc.

Also…we all remember the UCLAs and the Nebraska’s & the Penn states early on in the 80s but there was also the Oregon’s, Colorado’s, Miami Florida’s, Tenn, NC St’s hell we lost a game 3 to 5 Arixona who finsed 5-6. People just don’t look at things very fairly when they try to compare these two men.
 

cmhawks99

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I was talking to a much older gentleman comparing Fry to Ferentz and he mentioned a couple of things that Fry did that Kirk would never do if true. He said that Iowa punted on 1st down while pinned pinned deep close to the goal line just to flip field positions and he actually started Chuck Long because he looked good during pre-game warm-ups. Any truth to those?

Another thing all the old-timers forget is the amount of times the stadium would loudly grown when we would hand the ball off on a quick draw on third and 13 or third and 15…

Point being & has been said by several in this thread. The message boards wouldn’t be any kinder to Hayden than they have been to Kirk!
 
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HawkPT

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I believe Hayden once said that he started a QB because he looked good in warm-ups, but Fry was a psychology grad who liked to play with the press and public from time to time. It is highly doubtful he actually made the decision in pre-game warm-ups.
 
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l.todd

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How about this one:

"You show me a coach who's good at golf, and I'll whip him in football." I remembered that quote a few years ago when Steve Spurrier was coaching the Redskins and he took a lot of time off to play golf.
 
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HawkIDrummer

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That seems hard to believe considering we had so much trouble historically over high-end teams… I doubt you ever went back and looked at the 20 year schedule. You probably also have never seen the stats tweeted by Mark Morehouse a few years ago. Kirk‘s record against top 25 teams is remarkably better than Hayden’s.

Its really not even marginally close… Hayden was a marvelous PR man and psychologist. Kirk F’s quote “that’s football” was predecessed by Hayden constantly and continually poor mouthing our injury situation and building the other team up to epic proportions…

People just have a hard time remembering their heroes accurately. Hayden would’ve been crucified on social media today.
No, I remember Hayden quite well...and accurately. He had his flaws too and yes social media would have gone after him today (who doesn't get that treatment?). Some reporters did, just like today with KFz.

KFz's record against Top 25 teams is better. His record against lesser teams he should have beaten is worse. So...ya know. It tends to balance out.

That said Hayden still beats KFz 7 out of 10 head-to-head with similar talent.
 

nbanflfactory

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FWIW….

From 1979-98 there were 3.5 teams in the Big 10 with a plus .500 winning %. Obviously Ohio State & Michigan. With Penn State being a generous .5 because I think they didn’t join the Big Ten until 1994 ?! Iowa was then at 28th. The next big 10 team was 58th Wisconsin @ .48 winning percentage.

From 1999 until the present there are 8.5 Big 10 teams with winning records over that time frame. The .5 is Nebraska who we have played I think at least 11 possibly, 12 times. Iowa is at 29th Michigan State behind them at 30th, Minnesota is56th @.522 and Northwestern 62nd @.517.

Some of the Hayden was way better than Kirk crowd don’t like to hear this but the Big10 is demonstratively better now than it was back then.

And as an aside before someone tries to say the OOC was way better… There were a ton of piss poor Kent states & Northern Illinois and Drakes & UTEPs & Cincinnati’s, built in there etc. etc.

Also…we all remember the UCLAs and the Nebraska’s & the Penn states early on in the 80s but there was also the Oregon’s, Colorado’s, Miami Florida’s, Tenn, NC St’s hell we lost a game 3 to 5 Arixona who finsed 5-6. People just don’t look at things very fairly when they try to compare these two men.
Getting today .500 is a lot easier since teams play 2 or 3 non p5 teams....
 

cmhawks99

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No, I remember Hayden quite well...and accurately. He had his flaws too and yes social media would have gone after him today (who doesn't get that treatment?). Some reporters did, just like today with KFz.

KFz's record against Top 25 teams is better. His record against lesser teams he should have beaten is worse. So...ya know. It tends to balance out.

That said Hayden still beats KFz 7 out of 10 head-to-head with similar talent.

Also an inaccurate misconception…Hayden Fry lost 16 times to teams with sub .500 records and tied two of those teams…

Last I looked which again has been a few years ago Kirk: had lost 19 times to such teams maybe 20 because I think he lost to a Purdue team that ended up finishing six and seven a couple years ago, that I hadn’t added yet.

Furthermore the amount of times in 20 years Hayden Fry played a schedule that had at least six + losing teams on it is significantly more than Kirk. So no I can’t agree with that assessment either!

Hell the year we crushed Texas in the holiday bowl we lost to 4-7 Minnesota in the last game of the Big Ten season 17 to 23 and that’s the tip of the iceberg. The point is you said Hayden would beat Kirk seven out of 10 times and of course it’s just opinion but I don’t see any objective stats that would back that up.
 
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HawkIDrummer

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Also an accurate misconception…Hayden Fry lost 16 times to teams with sub .500 records and tied two of those teams…

Last I looked which again has been a few years ago Kirk: had lost 19 times to such teams maybe 20 because I think he lost to a Purdue team that ended up finishing six and seven a couple years ago, that I hadn’t added yet.

Furthermore the amount of times in 20 years Hayden Fry played a schedule that had at least six + losing teams on it is significantly more than Kirk. So no I can’t agree with that assessment either!

Hell the year we crushed Texas in the holiday bowl we lost to 4-7 Minnesota in the last game of the Big Ten season 17 to 23 and that’s the tip of the iceberg. The point is you said Hayden would beat Kirk seven out of three times and of course it’s just opinion but I don’t see any objective stats that would back that up.
Depends on where you draw the metric. Sub .500 is one way. I was referring to lower division opponents, non p5 teams. The ones you should never lose.

Losing to a B1G team is no great embarrassment, even one with a sub .500 record. Upsets happen. Losing to NDSU, Western Michigan, Central Michigan, Northern Illinois (all at home) and ISU multiple years (4 times in Kinnick) often when they were freaking terrible... looks a lot worse than getting upset by a B1G team in the midst of a conference season.

The worst non-con Fry loss I recall is @ Tulsa 1996. If I'm forgeting some, fill in the blanks.
 

Keeker16

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I remember us punting on third down(I want to say it was against MSU in the mid 80s) when pinned in to our own end.
I’ve always felt the difference between the two was that Hayden usually didn’t lose to teams we were a lot better than, but with KF I feel like we have more of a shot against real good teams.
 

Frosty7130

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Depends on where you draw the metric. Sub .500 is one way. I was referring to lower division opponents, non p5 teams. The ones you should never lose.

Losing to a B1G team is no great embarrassment, even one with a sub .500 record. Upsets happen. Losing to NDSU, Western Michigan, Central Michigan, Northern Illinois (all at home) and ISU multiple years (4 times in Kinnick) when they were freaking terrible... looks a lot worse than getting upset by a B1G team in the midst of a conference season.

The worst non-con Fry loss I recall is @ Tulsa 1996. If I'm forgeting some, fill in the blanks.
If you're gonna make that argument, at least be consistent. ISU is a P5 team, and has been infinitely better the entirety of KF's tenure than they were Hayden's entire tenure.

Also, 2 of those 4 teams you name include a BCS bowl participant and the FCS national champions. And no such loss has happened in 5 years.
 

Packer54

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I was a student in the stands......he did not make that up. 4 wide set....first play against Indiana.
We were ahead in that game then lost towards the end. Then next week AT Oklahoma. I think it was 7-6 OK going into the 4th and they pulled away 21-6. That was the post game that Fry said if he saw anyone smiling he was going to punch them in the mouth. THEN back to against Nebby. Played well cam up short. First win? The very next week against the Clones.
 

cmhawks99

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Losing to a B1G team is no great embarrassment, even one with a sub .500 record. Upsets happen. Losing to NDSU, Western Michigan, Central Michigan, Northern Illinois (all at home) and ISU multiple years (4 times in Kinnick) often when they were freaking terrible... looks a lot worse than getting upset by a B1G team in the midst of a conference season.
The worst non-con Fry loss I recall is @ Tulsa 1996. If I'm forgeting some, fill in the blanks.

Yes I remember it well, as an aside and I’m not proud to admit this but I’m a pretty open book… I was 26, living with my wife, girlfriend at the time. Drunk off my ass and bawling in my living room and she came out of the bedroom to find out what the hell was wrong with me…

Not gonna go back and double check all of that right now. I may some time but I do know people forget we lost Iowa State three times in a row from 79 to 81 and they were a combined 15 – 16 – 2 over that time.

I also remember losing to a 2-9 Minnesota 13 to 28 that would’ve squared our record at 6-6 back in 92.

Generally I agree with you to a point…But Those teams are way better now than they were back then & North Dakota state is easily every year one of the 40 or 50 best teams in college football. Also Northern Illinois had an incredible run in that timeframe so no I don’t believe you’re being particularly fair.

However I have nothing for you on Central Michigan and Western Michigan those were insulting.

Here’s the deal though and again Hayden started this all so I’m certainly not denigrating him. But I’ve read these posts about how awesome Hayden was for so damn long it is just complete revisionist history…

From 1979 to 1998 (20 seasons) Hayden played 110 teams with losing records. In 8 of those 20 the schedule included 6 teams with losing records. In 3 more he played 7 teams with losing records including the 1991 season in which many of our fans consider to be one of our better seasons of all time.

Conversely in 23 seasons, Kirk has played 115 teams with losing records. 4 seasons he played six teams with losing record, 1 season he played seven and 1 season he played eight.

So there is no way you can tell me Hayden played tougher competition. Furthermore and I’m not really even sure what this means but 17 of the sub 500 teams Kirk has played have been in the last 10 years when 6/6 teams got to go to bowl games. 17 of those 115 sub .500 teams were decent/average mostly power 5 competitors.
 
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HawkIDrummer

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If you're gonna make that argument, at least be consistent. ISU is a P5 team, and has been infinitely better the entirety of KF's tenure than they were Hayden's entire tenure.

Also, 2 of those 4 teams you name include a BCS bowl participant and the FCS national champions. And no such loss has happened in 5 years.
So leave out ISU as they're P5, fair enough. (though you must admit KFz lost to them far too many times when he shouldn't have) The rest are still teams you should never lose to at home.

Champion or not, you said it best w regard to NDSU. "FCS". Period.

WMU was 5-7 in 2007

NIU was good in 2013. But MAC is still MAC, especially when they have to come into your house.

CMU 2012 played in the Little Caesar's bowl...but they were a whopping 7-6 and 4-4 in the MAC (a shining example of too many bowls). Not exacly 2017 Central Florida.

Again, both good coaches. Hayden was imperfect too. But KFz laid a lot more eggs.
 

Packer54

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Pretty sure the Sunshine Scooter was coaching the Hoosiers then
Coach Corso! We were blowing them out at half and did not score a point the second half. But then the beginning of the next season, Indiana was ranked, my roommate and I went to the game (hitchhiked!), and the Hawks won. Great day!
 

red/green hawk

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I don’t remember punting on first down. Seem to recall he did punt on third down at least once

don’t recall that about starting Long. He may have said it but doubt that was real reason

maybe others remember better than me
I remember punting on an early down pinned way deep. I don't remember if it was 1st or 2nd down. It was not an isolated incident.