A look back at how Biden and the Dems viewed Romney and Russia in 2012.

[FAUlty Gator]

Was looking back at a lot of the same type of paranoia that we always get from he Dems and left and stumbled upon this article and unbelievable quote from Biden out on the campaign stump.

Here's what he actually said about Mitt and Russia. Seems he was a huge fan of Putin back then and Romney was 100% in his assessment of him and the danger he posed.

Romney also criticised Obama directly for distancing America from traditional Middle East ally Israel and for his dealings with Russian president Vladimir Putin.

"Under my presidency, our friends will see more loyalty and Mr. Putin will see a little less flexibility and more backbone," Romney told the party faithful.

On the stump today, Biden hit back saying: "He wants to move from co-operation to confrontation with Putin's Russia. And these guys say the president's out of touch?"

Joe Biden leads Democratic attacks on Romney before Charlotte convention

Democrats see opportunities in Romney's perceived weakness on foreign policy and on conservative social issues

www.theguardian.com

 

[Bonerfarts]

12 years ago?

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

Was looking back at a lot of the same type of paranoia that we always get from he Dems and left and stumbled upon this article and unbelievable quote from Biden out on the campaign stump.

Here's what he actually said about Mitt and Russia. Seems he was a huge fan of Putin back then and Romney was 100% in his assessment of him and the danger he posed.

Romney also criticised Obama directly for distancing America from traditional Middle East ally Israel and for his dealings with Russian president Vladimir Putin.

"Under my presidency, our friends will see more loyalty and Mr. Putin will see a little less flexibility and more backbone," Romney told the party faithful.

On the stump today, Biden hit back saying: "He wants to move from co-operation to confrontation with Putin's Russia. And these guys say the president's out of touch?"

Joe Biden leads Democratic attacks on Romney before Charlotte convention

Democrats see opportunities in Romney's perceived weakness on foreign policy and on conservative social issues

www.theguardian.com

That attitude led to Russia taking Crimea in 2014 with little push back.

 

[Sharky1203]

This is stupid. You're a POS. They never did that. They've always been against Russia. This is fake news.

BTW, never bring up stuff from the past. Especially ones that they haven't been able to rewrite. You have to allow 1984 to kick in, before you can make posts like this.

 

[FAUlty Gator]

12 years ago?

Yes, When it was obvious to many people who Putin was but the lead Dems were too stupid to see it or accept it. Of course, 12 years later, Biden is much wiser and really has a grasp on everything.

 

[Uniformed_ReRe]

Are you suggesting that attitudes toward Russia were less hostile before Putin invaded Crimea?

 

[RileyHawk]

Yes, When it was obvious to many people who Putin was but the lead Dems were too stupid to see it or accept it. Of course, 12 years later, Biden is much wiser and really has a grasp on everything.

This is more nonsense from you. Obama was certainly on the diplomatic path with Russia as there was nothing obvious about where Putin was going until they invaded Crimea. Trump and the republicans, on the other hand, had full knowledge of Putin's motivations and he actively worked to help Putin become more powerful.

 

[Huey Grey]

Trump became Putin's bish. But the Dems

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

Obama was certainly on the diplomatic path with Russia as there was nothing obvious about where Putin was going until they invaded Crimea.

Second Chechen war 1999-2000​

In September 1999, a month after Putin became PM, bomb explosions at apartment buildings in Moscow and two other cities killed over 300 people. Putin blamed Chechen separatists (who denied it). He ordered the air bombing of Grozny – the start of the second Chechen war. Alexander Litvinenko, the ex-FSB agent murdered in London in 2006, claimed the FSB planted the city bombs, with Putin’s connivance, to help bring him the presidency. That was motive enough for his poisoning. The war left up to 50,000 dead or missing, mostly civilians.

Invasion of Georgia 2008​

As in the Donbas today, separatist forces in the breakaway Georgian regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia fought government forces in August 2008. When Georgia’s president, Mikheil Saakashvili, sent troops to restore order, Putin deployed Russian forces to support the separatists (which they had already been doing). A full-scale Russian invasion of undisputed Georgian territory ensued in what Putin called a “peace enforcement” operation.

Ukraine invasion: how Vladimir Putin built his career on waging war

The Russian president’s career is steeped in blood. But the invasion of Ukraine is more ambitious, and risky, than anything the Russian president has attempted before

www.theguardian.com

 

[WhiteSoxClone]

This is more nonsense from you. Obama was certainly on the diplomatic path with Russia as there was nothing obvious about where Putin was going until they invaded Crimea. Trump and the republicans, on the other hand, had full knowledge of Putin's motivations and he actively worked to help Putin become more powerful.

I hate Trump and the current Republican party. I don't think I'll ever vote Republican again. So please start with that context.

However, whenever this topic comes up, its annoying as hell the way Democrats can't just admit that Romney got this right and Obama got it wrong. I don't see why that is so hard. Yeah, it wasn't as clear at the time just how dangerous Putin was to most people. But Romney saw it and got mocked for it. It doesn't mean that Obama was a bad president, but he got this wrong.

Do you excuse Neville Chamberlain for ignoring Winston Churchill's warnings about the Nazis in 1938 because it wasn't obvious yet that he was correct?

 

[BioHawk]

Yes, When it was obvious to many people who Putin was but the lead Dems were too stupid to see it or accept it. Of course, 12 years later, Biden is much wiser and really has a grasp on everything.

12 years ago we were still in the middle of the clusterf**k the Iraq invasion caused with ISIS and Al Queda and whatever other terrorist offshoot groups that were operating in Iraq and attacking US troops. It's not that they didn't recognize a threat, it's that the people actually shooting and killing Americans were a more pressing concern at the time.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

I agree that Romney was proven right on Russia. I generally think Obama was the best president in my lifetime but Romney was right on this issue and Obama was wrong on this issue.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

12 years ago we were still in the middle of the clusterf**k the Iraq invasion caused with ISIS and Al Queda and whatever other terrorist offshoot groups that were operating in Iraq and attacking US troops. It's not that they didn't recognize a threat, it's that the people actually shooting and killing Americans were a more pressing concern at the time.

Maybe but correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Obama list North Korea as a greater threat than Russia?

North Korea wasn't exactly killing Americans either.

 

[WhiteSoxClone]

12 years ago we were still in the middle of the clusterf**k the Iraq invasion caused with ISIS and Al Queda and whatever other terrorist offshoot groups that were operating in Iraq and attacking US troops. It's not that they didn't recognize a threat, it's that the people actually shooting and killing Americans were a more pressing concern at the time.

But that isn't what Obama or Biden said. They didn't acknowledge at all that Russia was a threat. They didn't say, yeah, Russia is an issue, but we've got bigger concerns to deal with right now. Obama said, "the 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back." That doesn't sound like they "recognized a threat."

Again, why is it so hard to just acknowledge - yeah, our guy missed on this one? Its just more tribalism.

 

[St. Louis Hawk]

So Biden was wrong on Putin 12 years ago … which implies he is right about Putin now, yet the cons don’t want to pay for Biden being right now and would rather let Ukraine fall into Putin’s hands permanently?

Got it.

 

[BioHawk]

But that isn't what Obama or Biden said. They didn't acknowledge at all that Russia was a threat. They didn't say, yeah, Russia is an issue, but we've got bigger concerns to deal with right now. Obama said, "the 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back." That doesn't sound like they "recognized a threat."

Again, why is it so hard to just acknowledge - yeah, our guy missed on this one? Its just more tribalism.

At that time, Russia wasn't as big of a threat. Weaponizing social media wasn't a thing yet and no one could have predicted how easily so many Americans would just abandon all rational thought because they liked a con-man. At that time, Russia was contained and until the social media attacks and the misinformation programs came into play Russia had very little hope of damaging the United States short of starting a nuclear war. Also, Citizens United offered an easy way in for Russians to buy off politicians as well. Obama should have publicized that threat more, for sure.

 

[FAUlty Gator]

12 years ago we were still in the middle of the clusterf**k the Iraq invasion caused with ISIS and Al Queda and whatever other terrorist offshoot groups that were operating in Iraq and attacking US troops. It's not that they didn't recognize a threat, it's that the people actually shooting and killing Americans were a more pressing concern at the time.

Then why did Obama make fun of him and NOT say Iraq or Iran or AQ, but an entirely different country not even located in the middle east. Remember the "80's want their foreign policy back" idiotic comment the left and media slurped?

 

[FAUlty Gator]

This is more nonsense from you. Obama was certainly on the diplomatic path with Russia as there was nothing obvious about where Putin was going until they invaded Crimea. Trump and the republicans, on the other hand, had full knowledge of Putin's motivations and he actively worked to help Putin become more powerful.

Weird how Bush knew what kind of POS Putin was and told us all, but Obama was all "Hey, I'll have more flexibility after this election and will be able to please Putin much more then" nonsense.

 

[HROT]

Weird how Bush knew what kind of POS Putin was and told us all, but Obama was all "Hey, I'll have more flexibility after this election and will be able to please Putin much more then" nonsense.

Now do the Helsinki press conference

“Russia, if you’re listening….”

 

[FAUlty Gator]

So Biden was wrong on Putin 12 years ago … which implies he is right about Putin now, yet the cons don’t want to pay for Biden being right now and would rather let Ukraine fall into Putin’s hands permanently?

Got it.

Yes. Of course, had they taken Putin as serious as they should after being warned by both Bush and Romney, there's a good chance, all of these billions are saved and unneeded because things may have been prevented. So, much like Trump didn't take COVID serious, Biden and Obama didn't take Russia serious. And BOTH of those things coast us all dearly.

 

[FAUlty Gator]

Now do the Helsinki press conference

“Russia, if you’re listening….”

Yeah. Trump is an idiot and wrong about a lot of things too. Congrats on equating Biden and Trump. I'm sure that's exactly what you were going for.

 

[FAUlty Gator]

At that time, Russia wasn't as big of a threat. Weaponizing social media wasn't a thing yet and no one could have predicted how easily so many Americans would just abandon all rational thought because they liked a con-man. At that time, Russia was contained and until the social media attacks and the misinformation programs came into play Russia had very little hope of damaging the United States short of starting a nuclear war. Also, Citizens United offered an easy way in for Russians to buy off politicians as well. Obama should have publicized that threat more, for sure.

So, you're saying Romney was wrong about Putin being a threat, because he wasn't talking about social media? He just got lucky?

 

[BioHawk]

Then why did Obama make fun of him and NOT say Iraq or Iran or AQ, but an entirely different country not even located in the middle east. Remember the "80's want their foreign policy back" idiotic comment the left and media slurped?

You'd have to ask Obama that question. His comment, while in hindsight may not be the high point of his Presidency wasn't out of line. At that time, Russia was relatively contained. Had we not already spent 10 years fighting in Iraq we would have been far better situated to deal with Russia's invasion of Crimea in 2014. Russia knew that there was no way the US was going to get involved then though because we were already overextended. Without the US, there was no way NATO was going to do anything.

 

[RileyHawk]

Weird how Bush knew what kind of POS Putin was and told us all, but Obama was all "Hey, I'll have more flexibility after this election and will be able to please Putin much more then" nonsense.

You're back to making shit up again.

 

[FAUlty Gator]

You're back to making shit up again.

And what is that?

 

[FlickShagwell]

Hey @FAUlty Gator - tell us exactly what the world will look like in 12 years and get it right.

For the rest of this thread’s readers, 12 years is three times as long as the Confederacy lasted. Someone in 1856 could’ve predicted what America would look like in 1868 and miss quite a bit!

 

[FAUlty Gator]

Hey @FAUlty Gator - tell us exactly what the world will look like in 12 years and get it right.

For the rest of this thread’s readers, 12 years is three times as long as the Confederacy lasted. Someone in 1856 could’ve predicted what America would look like in 1868 and miss quite a bit!

Impossible. The world will have been gone for 5 years per AOC’s prediction. Nice try.

And it wasn’t a prediction of what the world will be like. It was a way off reading of an obvious evil cretin in Putin.

 

[cjr1310]

Then why did Obama make fun of him and NOT say Iraq or Iran or AQ, but an entirely different country not even located in the middle east. Remember the "80's want their foreign policy back" idiotic comment the left and media slurped?

That “idiotic” comment was specifically about Al Qaeda being a bigger geopolitical threat at the time.

 

[IANDFAN]

Yeah. Trump is an idiot and wrong about a lot of things too. Congrats on equating Biden and Trump. I'm sure that's exactly what you were going for.

Equating Biden and Trump is more relevant than what Obama did 12 years ago.

 

[TJ8869]

Hey @FAUlty Gator - tell us exactly what the world will look like in 12 years and get it right.

For the rest of this thread’s readers, 12 years is three times as long as the Confederacy lasted. Someone in 1856 could’ve predicted what America would look like in 1868 and miss quite a bit!

12 years? The prediction went to hell in less than 2 years.

 

[TJ8869]

This is more nonsense from you. Obama was certainly on the diplomatic path with Russia as there was nothing obvious about where Putin was going until they invaded Crimea. Trump and the republicans, on the other hand, had full knowledge of Putin's motivations and he actively worked to help Putin become more powerful.

Did you forget the part where Putin publicly declared multiple times his intentions to restore the old Soviet Union at least as early as 2007? Or the fact that he invaded and annexed part of Georgia (the country, not the state) in 2008?

Romney was 100% right that Russia was and is our #1 geopolitical foe. But instead of real leadership from the Democrats we got this nonsense:

 

[RileyHawk]

Did you forget the part where Putin publicly declared multiple times his intentions to restore the old Soviet Union at least as early as 2007? Or the fact that he invaded and annexed part of Georgia (the country, not the state) in 2008?

Romney was 100% right that Russia was and is our #1 geopolitical foe. But instead of real leadership from the Democrats we got this nonsense:

No.

Russia still isn't the #1 geopolitical foe of the US.

 

[mnole03]

I voted for Romney. I’d vote for him again.

 

[DPUboiler]

What is controversial here? By their actions, the Democrats have proven Mitt was correct. And traditional Republicans still also view Russia as a threat. Unfortunately the MAGA wing that has taken over and is doing Russia's dealings here seek to appease Russia. It's almost as if the adults in the room all acknowledge the truth, and unfortunately, the MAGA wing are making the most noise.

 

[TJ8869]

No.

Russia still isn't the #1 geopolitical foe of the US.

Who is? Canada?

 

[globalhawk]

Who is? Canada?

China

 

[The Tradition]

 

[hawksurprize]

So, you're saying Romney was wrong about Putin being a threat, because he wasn't talking about social media? He just got lucky?

That was your take from that? Odd or obtuse take?

 

[BioHawk]

So, you're saying Romney was wrong about Putin being a threat, because he wasn't talking about social media? He just got lucky?

There just are no shades of grey with you.

 

[TJ8869]

China

Over the past two years we’ve had to send something like 75 billion dollars to Ukraine to help them fight off the Russian invasion. How much have we spent recently defending allies from Chinese invasions?

In recent years Democrats have blamed Putin and Russia for just about everything except overturning Cooper DeJean's touchdown against MInnesota. Dems blamed Russia for our inflation. "Putin's Price Hike" practically became the DNC motto for about a year.

They blamed Russia for helping Donald Trump get elected in the first place. Russian bot farms used social media to convince voters that Hillary Clinton was prone to fainting and therefore unfit for office. They financed Jill Stein's campaign in order to help her siphon votes away from Hillary in swing states, and they were grooming Tulsi Gabbard to fill that role in 2020 if necessary. How many of our elections has China meddled in to the degree that Russia has?

I'm supposed to believe China is a greater geopolitical foe than Russia based on what factors?