abolishing income tax

[LetsGoHawks83]

Obviously, it would be nice to not have income tax, but it's the simplest way to tax "fairly".

Now.... Property tax is something that pisses me off. I worked my a$$ of to earn money (taxed earnings) to buy and pay a loan on my property.

Then my reward for this.... I get to pay taxes just for having this home/property.... FOREVER.

I know a lot of school funding comes from property taxes, but it would be nice if there was a way to shift this to income taxes, even if you have to increase taxes there slightly.

Wouldn't it encourage home ownership, if you were not taxed or very little tax on your primary residence? Keep commercial property tax and tax the sh*t out of second homes, so maybe you discourage the buying of houses to rent for the purpose air-bnb.

It goes without saying, we need better stewards of our tax money. WAY too much waste and it's too easy to waste when you can just go back for more.

 

[LetsGoHawks83]

Best thing about a Roth is if you plan on retiring early and getting health insurance via the ACA, your withdrawals from Roth don’t count as income.

Outside that you could make an argument that it’s a wash. Tax rate on 401k withdrawals in your retirement might be lower than when you were working.

High deductible health plans and putting money in a health savings account is a great move, if you can swing it with your employer. Invest HSAs in funds just like anything else and it's all tax free, if spent on health needs.

Plus your monthly insurance premium is much lower.

I just wish our employer had it as an option the first 10 years of my employment, when I didn't have kids and the more frequent doctors visits! LOL

 

[Tenacious E]

Best thing about a Roth is if you plan on retiring early and getting health insurance via the ACA, your withdrawals from Roth don’t count as income.

Outside that you could make an argument that it’s a wash. Tax rate on 401k withdrawals in your retirement might be lower than when you were working.

I had not thought of that...

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Sounds like gov’t working together on a project…in this case ACA. So, Trump didn’t dismantle ACA then…correct? Now tell me you weren’t dumb enough to know why another poster said you were “splitting hairs” on this topic.

His inability to dismantle the ACA wasn't for lack of trying it was for lack of competence.

 

[onlyTheObvious]

High deductible health plans and putting money in a health savings account is a great move, if you can swing it with your employer. Invest HSAs in funds just like anything else and it's all tax free, if spent on health needs.

Plus your monthly insurance premium is much lower.

I just wish our employer had it as an option the first 10 years of my employment, when I didn't have kids and the more frequent doctors visits! LOL

Yes. I have HSA but my insurance is a $6000 deductible. It’s pretty difficult to get very far head if you use healthcare at all.

 

[Tenacious E]

Now.... Property tax is something that pisses me off. I worked my a$$ of to earn money (taxed earnings) to buy and pay a loan on my property.

Then my reward for this.... I get to pay taxes just for having this home/property.... FOREVER.

I know a lot of school funding comes from property taxes, but it would be nice if there was a way to shift this to income taxes, even if you have to increase taxes there slightly.

I guess my response would be (and this is not meant to be assholey) is if things like schools and city infrastructure (building and maintaining) are not something you want to pay for, buy outside of city limits in the nearby countryside and pay only county taxes.

 

[onlyTheObvious]

I had not thought of that...

I plan on joining the very large group of paper millionaires that retire early and make themselves look somewhat poor to get very cheap health insurance.

 

[cheeselog8]

After looking at this further, I think the main advantages to a backdoor Roth over letting it ride in a traditional 401k is that in the Roth there are no RMDs, and you could convert incrementally to not have a massive taxable event all in one year. Otherwise if you convert $1M+ all at once, you better have the wherewithal to cut a check for hundreds of thousands of dollars, as you cannot pay the tax bill out of the retirement account without incurring the 10% penalty. Other than that, the downside is that you have to wait 5 years to withdraw funds, if you are already nearing or at retirement.

Backdoor roth is different than a Roth conversion. The funds you use to do a backdoor Roth are not already in a 401k. They are after tax dollars that you are able to get into a Roth even though you are over the income limits. So your options for this money if you want to invest is to either backdoor Roth it or park it in a brokerage account. The Roth has tax free growth while the brokerage is subject to tax, making the Roth much more desirable.

 

[SnootHawk]

There are so many people who are fully against giving the government any money . . . yet at the same time willing to take stimulus, child tax credit EIC ect. The mental hurdles needed to get from one stance to another is mind boggling. Other than individuals only want to take, not pay their fair share anymore.

Exactly. They are the ones that bitch about the roads, etc. but take advantage of the government-provided economic infrastructure to make money. But somehow all that stuff is supposed to appear out of nowhere.

 

[joelbc1]

High deductible health plans and putting money in a health savings account is a great move, if you can swing it with your employer. Invest HSAs in funds just like anything else and it's all tax free, if spent on health needs.

Plus your monthly insurance premium is much lower.

I just wish our employer had it as an option the first 10 years of my employment, when I didn't have kids and the more frequent doctors visits! LOL

HSAs were just coming about the time I was retiring…it seems to be the best way to get bang for your healthcare insurance dollar… but there are a lot if folks who honestly would gave a very difficult time affording this. Too many folks are just too poorly disciplined to responsibly handle the $$. What is in place now is not very efficient cities but it does offer accessibility to healthcare…. Which is very profitable for insures and providers.

 

[Finance85]

The Fair Tax was floated about 20 years ago. It would be styled after the Canadian VAT tax. Essentially there would be a form sent into the IRS with an annual income amount, and lower income people would be sent a check to cover the VAT amount for essentials.

A more perfect version would require 2 Constitutional Amendments. First would repeal the Income Tax. Second would place limits on US spending and Congress' ability to raise the tax rate, etc.

 

[QChawks]

damnit I make too much!

 

[jneffer]

damnit I make too much!

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at the same time, he'll also be releasing his health care plan, the 2020 voter fraud proof and obama's birth certificate

 

[IAHawk2011]

“After he balances the budget.”

So never.

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

damnit I make too much!

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In other words: it ain’t going to happen. I don’t know how many times I have to say it for the dumbasses on here, but you cannot balance the budget without either severe cuts to entitlement programs or raising taxes. Most likely you have to do both.

Trump ain’t balancing the budget. At best he might slightly slow the rate our deficit grows. We are in deep trouble and we have turned to a billionaire cosplaying an Argentinian economist. Musk won’t find anything close to the money needed with his approach. It requires hard decisions in Congress to get to the real money.

 

[Bulldogs1974]

you can plan on it all you want but if your plan is to make tariffs cover the difference it's not going to happen.

 

[noleclone2]

In other words: it ain’t going to happen. I don’t know how many times I have to say it for the dumbasses on here, but you cannot balance the budget without either severe cuts to entitlement programs or raising taxes. Most likely you have to do both.

Trump ain’t balancing the budget. At best he might slightly slow the rate our deficit grows. We are in deep trouble and we have turned to a billionaire cosplaying an Argentinian economist. Musk won’t find anything close to the money needed with his approach. It requires hard decisions in Congress to get to the real money.

It really is both, but income is more important. If you were a family hundreds of thousands in credit card debt, the idea that you would spend less as the only way of getting out of debt and ignore increasing household income would be ludicrous. The massive spike in debt is truly tied to the decision to cut corporate and income taxes the last 45 years from the Reagan era and made worse by W to do so and fight TWO wars. The wealth and corporations paid way way more in the 50s and 60s and magically the debt was low. And of course also neither party is caring about spending last 45 years.

 

[Hans81]

Unless we make competing products domestically (which we mostly do not) tariffs are a tax on the shit we purchase.

Then let’s ramp up our country’s production.

 

[joelbc1]

It really is both, but income is more important. If you were a family hundreds of thousands in credit card debt, the idea that you would spend less as the only way of getting out of debt and ignore increasing household income would be ludicrous. The massive spike in debt is truly tied to the decision to cut corporate and income taxes the last 45 years from the Reagan era and made worse by W to do so and fight TWO wars. The wealth and corporations paid way way more in the 50s and 60s and magically the debt was low. And of course also neither party is caring about spending last 45 years.

BINGO!

It is only “common sense” to tax those folks who have money.

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

Then let’s ramp up our country’s production.

Sigh, that is the answer of someone who hasn’t looked at the actual math. Let me help you, it’s quite basic:

At current production levels our total federal revenue was $4.9T in 2024. Our deficit that year was $1.8T. To cover that gap our federal revenue needs to increase by 36%. 36%!!!! So if we don’t change tax rates and just want to grow our economy to solve this then GDP has to go up by basically the same amount.

How exactly does one, on a national scale, increase GDP by 36%? Lay it out for me.

If you want full marks your assessment should include:

• How you stimulate a 36% increase in market demand for the stuff we make/provide without creating hyper inflation.
• Where the resources are going to come from to handle the increased demand you have somehow managed to generate
• How you will counteract competitive responses from other countries/companies

You cannot get to a balanced budget by stimulating demand. It’s been tried for 40 years and we keep hearing this same message. It’s a fool’s dream.

We have to cut spending AND we have to increase tax rates or find new stuff to tax. If we try it your way for another 40 years we will have to print money, deal with hyper inflation and end up with Chinese owning half our land.