Americas Elite triumph again.
- Thread starter HawktimusPrime
- Start date
It's the method used at this present time, and it surely is not the best method, when combined with Federal law, military power, and government supremacy.
Those methods might be good with a government that lacks the tools this one does, but with a government like this one, it's the perfect marriage of injustice and enforcement of injustice.
I keep pressing you to provide your alternative and you keep running from the challenge.
He told you though Natch, you just didn't like the answer.
Ever heard of the Borg? Is that what you want us to be?
It means that in spite of their attempt to indocrinate them, it didn't work. Stop being so obstinate. you know exactly what I am saying. Believe it or not, some people learn things from sources OTHER THAN what the government provides. And, some people credit those sources. And, then SOME people, believe that it's "this way" or "that way."
I didn't realize what was happening till well after I left high school, but at least I learned, which is more than I can say for most people.
Quote him. Quote his alternative plan to our current government. Or provide your own. You run too.
I'm going to have to help you with a definition again. Really get a dictionary. Obstinate means you are refusing to see the facts or take the evidence into account. I provided you evidence that our government educated kids have been getting steadily smarter over the decades. Yet you wish to believe that our government schools have a goal of retarding the brains of our citizens. Your position is obstinate. Mine is based on empirical data.
I've always told you that the world must and will suffer before they evolve. My plan is to let yours fail, and then humanity will have the chance to learn from their mistakes. That is the only plan that will work.
It indoctrinates them to buy into the system and not challenge it. It's institutionalized.
"Smarter" is relative. My grandfather had 3 years of public school. He was the smartest man I ever knew! He taught himself throughout his life. He learned from others. He learned from people that had had NO formal schooling. I learned more from him than I ever learned from paid public school teachers. My parents taught me to read before I ever got to school!
You're most definitely being obstinate, stubborn, and pertinacious. Don't be a hypocrite Natch, or at least inherently being one by wrongly accusing Strumm here of what you are being.
wrong on both accounts. If your institutionalized point is right, those young people aren't driving for Ron Paul. Smarter was defined by the IQ tests and I gave you actual measurable data that it is going up over the decades. Both of those points have already been made internally in this thread.
When the facts are on your side, you pound the facts. Kudos for "pertinacious" however. Did you get yourself a thesaurus?
Okay, I'm getting tired...
It's been put to you, over and over, that IN SPITE OF the indoctrination process, there are those of us that know, or realize, or become aware, that it's just that- an indoctrination. Ron Paul's ideas, message and values would have scared-away those who hadn't realized that. I saw very, very few liberal democrats in Ron Paul's camp. He was a threat to their entire government-supported system and world. Ron Paul wasn't "bribing" people. It was adherence to a very fundamentalist view of the Constitution. A view that both parties abandoned well over a century, or more, ago.
By the way, all of your "measurable data" and "irrefutable proof" is nothing but PR props from the institution itself. That's hardly credible. But, you're not looking for credibility.
What more do I need to say? I told you that we need to seek alternatives outside your system. We need to gravitate towards what being a human means. We need to punctuate that we can work together without a forced structuring that includes injustices and 'bribing'. We need to take initiative, learn from each other, and forget about spending so much time on just keeping the system going. We need to do away with the nonsense and inefficiencies and most of all we need to work for creating a society that is defined by it's spirt, and not by it's rules.
We need to actually be pragmatic, rather than falsely so, and adding idealistic to that as well, without those ideals being later turned for the betterment of the systems controllers, rather than the people.
Your system is controlled by Elitism. We need cooperation, and partnership, rather than supervision and despotism. Which make no mistake we are working towards just that. The Executive chair has never wielded the kind of power it does now, and the despotism is backed by secret despotism behind the scenes, where it stays without fear of retribution.
I agree you are tired. You make more errors here. It seems it exhausts you to have those pointed out. So I'll tuck you in, kiss you goodnight and maybe when you are rested you will figure out your mistakes on your own. I won't hold my breath however.
I have decent vocabulary when I feel I want to use it. I'm not above using a thesaurus mind you, I just don't always take the time to use my big words.
Why is that such a thing with ghey people? Seriously, it's a trend of theirs that I've noticed for quite some time now. Is it kind of a culture thing or something, eh?
You are one eloquent speaker! Well said and many thanks. You do a much better job than I ever could at stating these points and ideas.
You're going to find an enormous challenge trying to get these people to ever budge from the system they trust (for obvious reasons- if you trust it, you stay with it).
This doesn't mean anything. Name the alternative. Pick a topic. How do you want to regulate the environment or educate kids with your nebulous alternative? How will you pay for it and balance rights? Are we all just going to decide to volunteer a day a week to teach other people's kids in our hippy commune schools?
What is this "being a human" "defined by spirit" stuff. It sounds like you want to sit in a sweat lodge, smoke dope and chant at crystals. You have no path to follow. You want to lead people to nowhere.
How do you get cooperation and partnerships? The answer is you get other people to care about your issues and you care about theirs. How does that happen? Bribery. Open your eyes, the current system is built on cooperation and partnerships and you hate it because you don't actually want to cooperate and compromise and partner with people which necessarily means you let them win sometimes.
Your instincts to hide your thoughts on this were correct, because this is crack pot drivel devoid of reason, understanding of human nature or any objective plan for progress.
No, I mean it's like a game or something you play. Out word each other some ish.
When I was in the Order Of The Arrow (younger years, maybe 16 or 17), we and a few others in my BSA OA group went to a sweat lodge. There was no dope smoking. But, we were with elders from the old Coharrie Tribe (eastern NC) as guides. It was one of the most enlightening experiences of my life. Very grounding, very intense, and made me very aware of who I was and could be. They were incredible men. And, believe it or not, they liked my Redskins coat. Try not to knock their rituals as being crackpot. Try the ritual, then get back to me.
Yes, I know what you meant. That's what verbose means. Did you plan this just so I could be meta? Here's a BS unscientific theory. Maybe understanding the opposite sex is very taxing on the mind. Maybe by not caring when chicks think, we get to spend that brain power on something else. Maybe we applied it to talking each other into bed and one thing leads to the other and now we're all wordsmiths. Unfortunately the verbose trait didn't lead to a spelling ability.
I believe it means a great deal. The alternative is a system that interferes as least as possible, and promotes the strengthening of character amongst our populace. How we pay for it, with a reduced government that is as efficient as possible, is easy. We are 'paying' for bloated involvement and wasteful spending as it is. We don't need to force volunteering. We need to allow for people to fructify. We simply cannot do that to the maximum if they are constantly distracted by nugatory measures, simply made to maintain the system.
The being human by finding spirituality is the very real and lost art of becoming one with all living things and understanding how we all correlate. We are distracted by the non-organic path we have created, and have lost our sense of living. I wouldn't mind a sweat lodge or two, as I've heard it can in fact be quiet liberating spiritually. Drink your water though.
Cooperation and partnerships is not lost on me, as I realize that they can happen without forceful measures or bribery as you put it. The proposal to have you care about my issues and me care about your issues takes care of itself, once we have the time to do it and we truly learn to understand each other. You call for bribery, yet you call me the one that doesn't understand the true meanings of cooperate and compromising. Bribery is almost always a pathway to more bribery which in turn leads to further corruption. Corruption is erroneous, because it leads to further dishonesty. So your measure is to be corrupt, dishonest, and self-destructive.
You deserve some kind of award, my man! Just don't enter into politics.
This part needs to be reiterated:
The being human by finding spirituality is the very real and lost art of becoming one with all living things and understanding how we all correlate. We are distracted by the non-organic path we have created, and have lost our sense of living. I wouldn't mind a sweat lodge or two, as I've heard it can in fact be quiet liberating spiritually. Drink your water though.
It's unfortunate that some people's minds convince them that they're too smart to recognize they have a soul. It's not something they believe their entire lives, but during the time they do... well, you see a lot of the outcome right here.
How do these two ideas work together and can you point to an empirical example? It seems to me any system concerning itself with character building is going to interfere a good deal.
Are we still taxing people under your alternative system? Do we get to vote? Are we still a federal system?
Fructify huh? I dig it, if you need help getting fruity, I'm your guy. Fructification is the foundation of social liberalism. They accomplish that by working to expand equality of opportunity for more. How do you plan to accomplish this? How are you going to limit distractions? Run down this road a bit.
So you want a government based on your chosen religion or spiritual beliefs? No thank you, that's not very appealing to me. Who's in charge of this society, priests?
You keep getting this part wrong. The bribery isn't the force part of the equation. Bribery is the carrot or the persuasive side. Force would be physically compelling a person with police or soldiers. But you only have those two options. You can either use a carrot or a stick to get people to do what you want. People are not going to help you just out of goodwill. Pay them or punish them, you must pick.
We agree it's a great proposal. But I'm the only one backing a system that makes that proposal real. How are you going to get people to care? You don't actually have a plan at all. You are just tossing flowers in the air and hoping for humans to just be nice and loving. We aren't that species.
Yes, paraphrasing its the worst form of government, except for all the others. How does your nebulous spiritual system prevent all the ills we currently have today? How do you fix any of these problems you point out? What if the forest worshipers want to bribe the sweat lodge people to stop cutting down the trees they use to make their holy smoke? Are you going to stop them?
You support the notion of the government forcing soul finding on people? Do you ever think through your positions?
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1. Easy, the empirical data is all around you. Look into the 1800's when small government led to our people being able to branch out and use their character to form the seeds of which we enjoy the fruits of today.
2. Fruit is good, I would argue that there is no need to expand opportunity when there is no longer a system taking that opportunity away. Did you know that they proposed disallowing people to have gardens in their backyards? I'm not sure whatever came of that. Your system, taking away opportunity.
3. No I do not want a 'government' based on spirituality, I want a people who understand spirituality. For obvious reasons.
4. Your options of force or bribery is amusing. You're under the impression that everyone must be included into everything.
5. I will get them to care, by letting them care without the system telling them how to care, how to think, what to believe, and most of all what they should take important in life.
6. I don't believe that nebulous is a bad thing. It's quite restorative due to the confines of your system being so regulative, and spurious as to what it really is. IF the forest worshippers want to bribe the sweat lodge to stop cutting down trees to make their holy smoke, I would say to you and them how much wood do you think you need for a sweat lodge? I would let them decide, rather than force my way into controlling their decision. Why does an outside entity need to come in edict the solution?
1. Easy, the empirical data is all around you. Look into the 1800's when small government led to our people being able to branch out and use their character to form the seeds of which we enjoy the fruits of today.
2. Fruit is good, I would argue that there is no need to expand opportunity when there is no longer a system taking that opportunity away. Did you know that they proposed disallowing people to have gardens in their backyards? I'm not sure whatever came of that. Your system, taking away opportunity.
3. No I do not want a 'government' based on spirituality, I want a people who understand spirituality. For obvious reasons.
4. Your options of force or bribery is amusing. You're under the impression that everyone must be included into everything.
5. I will get them to care, by letting them care without the system telling them how to care, how to think, what to believe, and most of all what they should take important in life.
6. I don't believe that nebulous is a bad thing. It's quite restorative due to the confines of your system being so regulative, and spurious as to what it really is. IF the forest worshippers want to bribe the sweat lodge to stop cutting down trees to make their holy smoke, I would say to you and them how much wood do you think you need for a sweat lodge? I would let them decide, rather than force my way into controlling their decision. Why does an outside entity need to come in edict the solution?
I would never enter into politics. I think we both know that entering into politics these days is a lose/lose situation. The vultures have taken nest in the Branches of liberty, and they aren't going anywhere soon.
I'm glad you understand what I'm talking about, I believe that religion had it's ideas, but it mutated into an entity similar to Big Government. Humans don't need a set of rules to find their own oneness with everything. They just need to take the time to do it.
I really like your idea on intelligence or the belief of your own intelligence leads you to believing you don't have a soul. That is very true, and I think that is a clever trick played by those that don't want you to believe that you're anymore than a cog. Outcome most definitely seen, there is no doubt there.
1) Are you saying your prefered system is you just want the original government the US started with?
2) I believe you would be wrong. Circumstance is the thief of most opportunity. If you are not dealing with that, you have many more harms to account for. Under your system will people be able to vote on how they want to structure their communities?
3) Are you saying spirituality isn't part of your system in actuality. You just wanted to plug it, but don't actually want to plan around it? If so, its not really a relevant answer to how you plan to make this all come about. And if you do plan to make it relevant, then you are a theocracy and deserve much scorn.
4) Yes, inclusion is good. Are you admitting your system plans to leave some out? Seems that way so far.
5) Letting them care isn't the problem. You need to make them care. How do you plan to do that?
6) Still no plan here to prevent our current system from reforming. No mechanisms for dealing with the corruption you see all around you. Are you going to lobotomize people or genetically modify us so that we all just get along and are nice to each other? This is complete fantasy, there is no meat on your bones. Is this based on some writings or are you just making this up on the fly?
