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Americas Elite triumph again.

It shows you how far-r off the reservation of logic the people who claim to represent the Left have gone when they start defending and rejoicing the ACA. As if, somehow now it's not totally in the hands of a complete corporate leviathan. You wanted single payer and you got nothing like it. And, what's worse, you got a system that will prevent you from ever getting it! You got mandatory health insurance!
 
I note with a smile that you're really hung up on a definition in this reply.
He has to because he knows that all of the world's strongest nations tax income. The only nations you'll find that don't mostly reside in the Middle East or are small islands.
 
Seriously, dude?

The bankers need the government to force us to use their tender. Have you noticed that, if you own a business, that it's illegal to refuse the dollar? They also need the government to overspend so that they can loan the U.S. government the money to cover its debts...with interest of course. ;)
Do you think watching America: Freedom to Fascism would help? It would scare him at first. But, maybe he'd get it better.
 
Natural, you're my boy, but you are not a realist. Another realist knows another realist when he sees one and....you,...no. Your view is naive because it's not based on actual happenings. You read the synopsis and clearly you miss out on all of the small print, eh?
I love ya bro, but you live in a fantasy world devoid of rules or consequence where you pull your potions out of a hat in each thread. You post just to remind yourself how you felt on that day.
 
But what you have failed to point out is any alternative. You snipe at an admittedly imperfect system that despite its limits has been instrumental in marked improvement in nearly every area of the human condition. Rather than work to fix those imperfections you want a revolution in favor of something you can't outline. That is hogwash.
What would be those improvements?
 
I love ya bro, but you live in a fantasy world devoid of rules or consequence where you pull your potions out of a hat in each thread. You post just to remind yourself how you felt on that day.
If I had my way, we'd be carrying swords on our backs, weed in our pockets, and we'd all live off the land, and only use technology when needed. It could happen. Just one or two major disasters away from happening.

The second the comfort nest burns down, the birds of this world will get to learn how to fly once again.
 
Is that what you are dong here? Are you just tossing out ideas you already think are wrong? If so we are in agreement, your positions here are wrong. But if you are still an anarcho capitalist, a position you refuse to comment on, your ideas here should be understood in that light and you should own up to your real ideas. Hiding your views is basically dishonest.

Wrong and right is subjective. You also understand that most of us would be willing to give a little to get a little, right?
 
If I had my way, we'd be carrying swords on our backs, weed in our pockets, and we'd all live off the land, and only use technology when needed. It could happen. Just one or two major disasters away from happening.

The second the comfort nest burns down, the birds of this world will get to learn how to fly once again.
I'm not sure you understand that the internet, which you spend half your day on, is technology.
 
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You serious? Healthcare, education, poverty, crime rates. Our people are undoubtedly better off in nearly ever facet since 1913.
Oh phooey Huey. Education has not improved, it's actually went downwards. We've lost the edge and other countries clearly have us beat, because they see education as actual education, rather than trying to make you fit within the system. Healthcare has not improved because of government. Any good healthcare is found outside government. Ask anyone who has had to deal with government healthcare for example. Crime rates have fallen not because of government, but because government moved out of the way.

Huey, you need to try this line again, and understand that almost all of this got better without government. Silly Huey.
 
I'm not sure you understand that the internet, which you spend half your day on, is technology.
I'm not sure you understand that CISCO,ORACLE, MS, APPLE, DELL, HP, etc. are not government ran institutions. Nor are the ISP providers.
 
What would be those improvements?
I would propose two main programs. One to put the people more in charge of the government and another to make the government work more for the people. On the first front that would involve some combination of efforts to keep the ballots open to both candidates and voters, mandatory voting, preferential ranked voting, national voting standards, dealing with gerrymandering, overturning citizens united and publicly financed campaigns.

On the second front it would mean more of the trade, labor, industrial, education and tax policies that redistribute to the middle class. Efforts to strengthen unions. Encourage employee ownership. Strengthen the ACA and transition to single payer. Replacing free trade with fair trade deals and using access to our market as our primary means of persuading other nations to deal with us as we like (that's more bribery over war).
 
You serious? Healthcare, education, poverty, crime rates. Our people are undoubtedly better off in nearly ever facet since 1913.
Healthcare has worsened since the advent of the ACA as one example of the fallacy of that argument. My insurance has doubled in 2 years and my healthcare itself has not improved.
Education has not improved in ANY area because of government. Poverty is up for debate, due to the consideration of what poverty actually is. How are you able to justify that statement and then go on to say that the wealth gap has increased?
I'll give you crime rates, but a lot of that is tied to technology and IMO gun ownership. People are afraid to do crimes to regular citizens due to the fear of being shot and killed.
Ask yourself this question, if you felt the need to go rob someone,..what would your first fear be? Be honest, because I know what mine would be. Also, the police getting away with shooting people day in and day out, may also have something to do with the crime rates going down. That is in fact government contribution in that case, but is that the type of contribution that someone like you values?
Or are you suggesting that people are just learning to behave, just because?
 
If I had my way, we'd be carrying swords on our backs, weed in our pockets, and we'd all live off the land, and only use technology when needed. It could happen. Just one or two major disasters away from happening.

The second the comfort nest burns down, the birds of this world will get to learn how to fly once again.
I'm sure you feel this way today. Tomorrow you will be telling us how we can all digitize our brain and avoid global warming by living in a server. One thing that will remain is your positions are always colorful and never take responsibility for any blowback.
 
Oh phooey Huey. Education has not improved, it's actually went downwards. We've lost the edge and other countries clearly have us beat, because they see education as actual education, rather than trying to make you fit within the system. Healthcare has not improved because of government. Any good healthcare is found outside government. Ask anyone who has had to deal with government healthcare for example. Crime rates have fallen not because of government, but because government moved out of the way.

Huey, you need to try this line again, and understand that almost all of this got better without government. Silly Huey.
You should love this, but I suspect you will find a reason not to.

People tend to think the kids today are stupid and feckless, but they’re not: They’re cleverer than their parents. There’s something called the Flynn effect, named after a political scientist called James Flynn, who talks about it in the video above. He noticed that every few years, companies that set IQ tests have to recalibrate their scores every so often. That’s because they define 100 as the average score. The average person in the population will always have a score of 100.

The average person now would have had an IQ of 118 if they took a test in 1950, and 130 if they’d taken one in 1910, putting them in the top 2% of the population. And an average person from 1950 taking the test today would have a score which would put them “at the border of mental retardation”, according to Pinker.

The Flynn effect has been put down to improvements in education, nutrition, and health, and has been recorded in dozens of countries around the world. We are all getting cleverer.

(Yes, IQ doesn’t equal intelligence, but it correlates very well with success in education and jobs, and with your life chances in general.)

http://www.buzzfeed.com/tomchivers/why-this-is-the-best-ever-time-to-be-a-human#.sp5ZK3njx
 
You also realize that without the government, the internet would not exist, right?
Huey, Huey, Huey, ...Are you trying to tell me that computers and the internet are solely based on what the government has done? Please explain. I assure you, all of the hardwork and the actual making of it happen, were based mostly on private contributions.

Again, CISCO, Microsoft, Apple, Dell, HP, etc, are all privately owned and ran. Fiber optics had a huge say in the boost of internet technologies, and it was also developed by a private company in the 70's.

The gov't did nothing more than sniff at the technology once they heard of it, and supplied some money for research, in a smart move to get Federal control over it's regulations as the technology progressed, not to mention that it of course wanted to use it for military needs.

Once again, you give gov't way too much credit Huey. It's full of politicians and fiends, and the private institutions and laboratories is where the real work was done, and still is. Do you see property of the United states written on your iPhone?

Give capitalism it's just due.
 
I would propose two main programs. One to put the people more in charge of the government and another to make the government work more for the people. On the first front that would involve some combination of efforts to keep the ballots open to both candidates and voters, mandatory voting, preferential ranked voting, national voting standards, dealing with gerrymandering, overturning citizens united and publicly financed campaigns.

On the second front it would mean more of the trade, labor, industrial, education and tax policies that redistribute to the middle class. Efforts to strengthen unions. Encourage employee ownership. Strengthen the ACA and transition to single payer. Replacing free trade with fair trade deals and using access to our market as our primary means of persuading other nations to deal with us as we like (that's more bribery over war).
I'd be on-board with mandatory voting if you made political parties against the law.
 
You should love this, but I suspect you will find a reason not to.

People tend to think the kids today are stupid and feckless, but they’re not: They’re cleverer than their parents. There’s something called the Flynn effect, named after a political scientist called James Flynn, who talks about it in the video above. He noticed that every few years, companies that set IQ tests have to recalibrate their scores every so often. That’s because they define 100 as the average score. The average person in the population will always have a score of 100.

The average person now would have had an IQ of 118 if they took a test in 1950, and 130 if they’d taken one in 1910, putting them in the top 2% of the population. And an average person from 1950 taking the test today would have a score which would put them “at the border of mental retardation”, according to Pinker.

The Flynn effect has been put down to improvements in education, nutrition, and health, and has been recorded in dozens of countries around the world. We are all getting cleverer.

(Yes, IQ doesn’t equal intelligence, but it correlates very well with success in education and jobs, and with your life chances in general.)

http://www.buzzfeed.com/tomchivers/why-this-is-the-best-ever-time-to-be-a-human#.sp5ZK3njx
Oh I totally agree Natch. It's exactly why the youth of this country is growing up to be more like me and less like you. Why do you think the young voters are going with the candidates such as Ron Paul, and Sanders, etc?
 
Healthcare has worsened since the advent of the ACA as one example of the fallacy of that argument. My insurance has doubled in 2 years and my healthcare itself has not improved.
Education has not improved in ANY area because of government. Poverty is up for debate, due to the consideration of what poverty actually is. How are you able to justify that statement and then go on to say that the wealth gap has increased?
I'll give you crime rates, but a lot of that is tied to technology and IMO gun ownership. People are afraid to do crimes to regular citizens due to the fear of being shot and killed.
Ask yourself this question, if you felt the need to go rob someone,..what would your first fear be? Be honest, because I know what mine would be. Also, the police getting away with shooting people day in and day out, may also have something to do with the crime rates going down. That is in fact government contribution in that case, but is that the type of contribution that someone like you values?
Or are you suggesting that people are just learning to behave, just because?
You didn't read any of those links I gave you did you? If you insist on being a negative grumpy curmudgeon, I can't stop you. But I can point out you are wrong. I linked the education refutation above to Prime's post. Here is some ACA facts to chew on.

Prevention and wellness are more important than ever.

One of the biggest steps the ACA has taken toward encouraging a culture of wellness and prevention was ensuring that health plans covered all preventive screenings, immunizations and well visits for women at no cost. Since the policy took effect in September 2010 it is estimated that an additional 76 million people now receive preventive care. The law also included these services among the Essential Health Benefits; the minimum benefits required in order for health insurance plans to participate in the Obamacare exchanges.

Moreover, under new payment models, doctors are now being financially supported to take a more proactive approach to patient care and making sure their patients are healthy, rather than only treating them when they are sick or come in for visits. Therefore, patients may experience more interactions with members of the care team when it’s time for recommended tests, immunizations, or well visits.

http://www.newsweek.com/five-ways-obamacare-has-improved-your-health-care-315909
 
Oh I totally agree Natch. It's exactly why the youth of this country is growing up to be more like me and less like you. Why do you think the young voters are going with the candidates such as Ron Paul, and Sanders, etc?
It's good to see you switch positions again. If only you didn't make me reeducate you again next week on this same point.
 
You didn't read any of those links I gave you did you? If you insist on being a negative grumpy curmudgeon, I can't stop you. But I can point out you are wrong. I linked the education refutation above to Prime's post. Here is some ACA facts to chew on.

Prevention and wellness are more important than ever.

One of the biggest steps the ACA has taken toward encouraging a culture of wellness and prevention was ensuring that health plans covered all preventive screenings, immunizations and well visits for women at no cost. Since the policy took effect in September 2010 it is estimated that an additional 76 million people now receive preventive care. The law also included these services among the Essential Health Benefits; the minimum benefits required in order for health insurance plans to participate in the Obamacare exchanges.

Moreover, under new payment models, doctors are now being financially supported to take a more proactive approach to patient care and making sure their patients are healthy, rather than only treating them when they are sick or come in for visits. Therefore, patients may experience more interactions with members of the care team when it’s time for recommended tests, immunizations, or well visits.

http://www.newsweek.com/five-ways-obamacare-has-improved-your-health-care-315909
I'm not THAT old by the way. Also, the part where it says that some of the costs are for free. If they are free, then why have the premiums raised so much in the past few years. Are you aware that they are set to raise %20-30% once again this coming year? This would indicate to me, that they are not free, they are just being paid for in different methods. Which also indicates to me, that there is not real improvement for the patient.
This article also indicates, that it's pushing for something that apparently doctors weren't doing beforehand? It seems to implicate that Doctors weren't concerned about the health of their patients? Now that your system has swooped in an taken control, they are suddenly more caring? I think that this is a great example for my own argument rather than yours.
I would choose another article next time.
 
It's good to see you switch positions again. If only you didn't make me reeducate you again next week on this same point.
He has a point actually. The young voters were very much involved with Dr. Pauls campaign and he clearly was a big influence on them. I would have to say that his common sense approach and genuine feelings and push towards Liberty were sensed and understood by the younger generation. Young folks can see right through fake diatribe. I know you are witty enough to see the diatribe in the debates we are able to view.
You failed yourself by that example as well. Your examples, like I've said before, are working against your own arguments.
 
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I'm not THAT old by the way. Also, the part where it says that some of the costs are for free. If they are free, then why have the premiums raised so much in the past few years. Are you aware that they are set to raise %20-30% once again this coming year? This would indicate to me, that they are not free, they are just being paid for in different methods. Which also indicates to me, that there is not real improvement for the patient.
This article also indicates, that it's pushing for something that apparently doctors weren't doing beforehand? It seems to implicate that Doctors weren't concerned about the health of their patients? Now that your system has swooped in an taken control, they are suddenly more caring? I think that this is a great example for my own argument rather than yours.
I would choose another article next time.
How is that supporting your position? My theory is you bribe people to care. This article says that's exactly how the world really works.

Edit - note I didn't call you old. I wasn't giving you that credit. Old people should know people don't just behave themselves because it would be the nice thing to do. It takes a carrot or a stick.
 
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I'm sure you feel this way today. Tomorrow you will be telling us how we can all digitize our brain and avoid global warming by living in a server. One thing that will remain is your positions are always colorful and never take responsibility for any blowback.
Funny that you say the word Blowback Natural. Because I believe that blowback may and very likely could be the reason my world eventually comes to pass. Guess what the will be the cause that leads to that blowback?

Yup, you guessed right. Your government that you love so very much. Take the good with the bad though eh?
 
He has a point actually. The young voters were very much involved with Dr. Pauls campaign and he clearly was a big influence on them. I would have to say that his common sense approach and genuine feelings and push towards Liberty were sensed and understood by the younger generation. Young folks can see right through fake diatribe. I know you are witty enough to see the diatribe in the debates we are able to view.
You failed yourself by that example as well. Your examples, like I've said before, are working against your own arguments.
So weird that those young people got so smart under our system? That should be a clue.
 
Under it? You mean in spite of it. What he was offering wasn't conducive to that system. you're a better example of the result of indoctrination.
So you think all those Ron Paul supporters went to private schools? Your presumption is a little elitist.
 
Under it? You mean in spite of it. What he was offering wasn't conducive to that system. you're a better example of the result of indoctrination.
I'd have to agree with what I've seen from your posts. The system isn't looking to create thinkers that will naturally gravitate away from it. It seems to me that the most intelligent folks you'll meet are usually quite good at self preservation.
 
My theory is you bribe people to care. This article says that's exactly how the world really works.

The article says "bribe people into caring." And, you believe that? You agree with that? Bribing people into caring? That's not how my world works.
 
No, I mean the indoctrination that comes from public schools didn't stick.
So either the public schools made them so clever that they weren't able to brainwash them or the brainwashing isn't part of the experience. Sorry you went to a cult school, that's not the experience for all of us.
 
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