Are Billionaires mentally ill / evil?

[goldmom]

Did you read my post? I’m a capitalist. I don’t care that they have billions or what they do with their money while they are alive. I care about what happens to it when they are gone or when they give it away.

Their kids, or their third trophy wife DID NOT EARN IT. Inheritance should not be a hallmark of capitalism, and it doesn’t promote the American dream. It promotes the concentration of wealth in fewer and fewer hands. If anything it is against the principles of democracy and capitalism because it creates barriers to entrepreneurship.

I disagree on inheritance taxes. The heirs get money that their parent already paid taxes on. Likely enormous amounts of taxes. What that person does with what’s left is none of our business.
If I had a billion and left it to my family members instead of the government so freaking what?
Most of the entrepreneurs you are criticizing (because whether you admit it or not you are resentful and envious) have so much of their wealth in stock or the appraised value of their enterprise and not sitting in a bank as cash. Unrealized gains and stock options they’d have to buy if they exercise those options.
By the way it seems to get reported every year how much money these folks have, but far less often is it reported how much they have given to charity every year.

I think of how many people have jobs in industries that depend on these folks who are statistically few in number but buy “luxury” items that mean annual outlays for maintenance, repairs, upgrades, and how much their multi million dollar residence pays in local property taxes. Or the skilled trades who build these homes. Those are American jobs.

 

[abby97]

I mean, sure I know the thread title is a bit much, but at what point of accumulating wealth does it become OCD/hoarding/narcissism or flat out evil.

I would think at 250 million, or so, a normal human would begin to really start giving the rest away to make the world better. Certainly by 1 billion if you just wanted bragging rights.

With 250 million, you could live an opulent lifestyle and have money set up for all your kids and their descendants to be well off.

They say money corrupts so it makes you wonder about the mentality of the people who just can’t stop accumulating wealth after the first say 250 to 1000 million dollars. They almost have to be warped/OCD/hoarder types and / or massive narcissistic tendencies and / or simply evil.

Remember before you defend, many of these people are despots / oligarchs / dictators. Also remember before you defend these people in human history the last 6000 years billionaire predecessors were almost all most cruel emperors/kings and queens / barbarians hoarding their wealth from conquest and tax of the conquered / peasants.

Cliffs notes: Billionaires should be shunned and made unpopular because almost by definition they are not good people. Sadly, right now they are more often deified and borderline worshipped. A better trend would be to deify and worship the people who give their billions away.

Have you ever considered that the mere accumulation of wealth itself is a benefit to society or culture? Unless you are a drug dealer or criminal stealing someone else's hard earned money, a wealthy person is providing a good or service that many many people must want or need. Who is to say how much money one needs? You state $250 million, why? Why not $100 million or a billion or ten billion?

Don't you believe these wealthy people aren't giving their money away and/or providing benefits to those in need? Who provided funding for thousands of libraries at the beginning of the 20th century? Who started St. Judes? Think about it.

I will never understand the villainization of success. In the U.S. anyone can achieve success if motivated and driven enough.

 

[hawkedoff]

I disagree on inheritance taxes. The heirs get money that their parent already paid taxes on. Likely enormous amounts of taxes. What that person does with what’s left is none of our business.
If I had a billion and left it to my family members instead of the government so freaking what?
Most of the entrepreneurs you are criticizing (because whether you admit it or not you are resentful and envious) have so much of their wealth in stock or the appraised value of their enterprise and not sitting in a bank as cash. Unrealized gains and stock options they’d have to buy if they exercise those options.
By the way it seems to get reported every year how much money these folks have, but far less often is it reported how much they have given to charity every year.

I think of how many people have jobs in industries that depend on these folks who are statistically few in number but buy “luxury” items that mean annual outlays for maintenance, repairs, upgrades, and how much their multi million dollar residence pays in local property taxes. Or the skilled trades who build these homes. Those are American jobs.

Or by extension the amount of taxes paid by all the people they employ directly and indirectly. These are not normal people.

I do think we can take a hard look at trusts that get established to bypass tax and do things like purchase farmland or other similar kinds of assets that will now forevermore be out of circulation

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

I disagree on inheritance taxes. The heirs get money that their parent already paid taxes on. Likely enormous amounts of taxes. What that person does with what’s left is none of our business.
If I had a billion and left it to my family members instead of the government so freaking what?
Most of the entrepreneurs you are criticizing (because whether you admit it or not you are resentful and envious) have so much of their wealth in stock or the appraised value of their enterprise and not sitting in a bank as cash. Unrealized gains and stock options they’d have to buy if they exercise those options.
By the way it seems to get reported every year how much money these folks have, but far less often is it reported how much they have given to charity every year.

I think of how many people have jobs in industries that depend on these folks who are statistically few in number but buy “luxury” items that mean annual outlays for maintenance, repairs, upgrades, and how much their multi million dollar residence pays in local property taxes. Or the skilled trades who build these homes. Those are American jobs.

I am not envious - I have my own wealth. You infer a lot for someone that doesn’t know me. Aren’t you always calling people out for doing that to you?

I agree on stock and family businesses. I would not tax those on the give away. Only when the gain is realized (I.e. when the stock or family farm is sold). So someone inherits their dad’s hardware store - great. If they are willing to work hard and grow it I have no issue - I wouldn’t tax the transfer of that asset yet. Once they sell it I think their cost basis for owning it should be set at $0 (excluding any capital improvements they made of course) and therefore 100% of the gain on it is taxable - just like if dad had sold the business in the first place.

As I said in my post - if we didn’t have a fiscal issue in this country I wouldn’t care. But we do. At some point your grandkids and mine will pay the price for the deficits. And there is NO way to cut spending enough to balance the budget unless we hit social security and Medicare, so we are faced with some bad choices, we either have to reduce your entitlements or we have to raise revenue. I don’t want that to be the case, but I won’t stick my head in the sand about it either.

I would choose to raise revenue over cutting entitlements. And the absolute fairest way I can figure out is inheritance. I would also flatten the income tax brackets and eliminate all the loopholes for what it’s worth.

Finally where did I criticize the entrepreneurs or billionaires? If anything I celebrated entrepreneurship, by criticizing those who didn’t earn the money in the first place.

 

[noleclone2]

So many of you don’t seem to understand that many billionaires are such due to stock from the company they built. How does Musk “give away” millions of shares?

You can’t gift shares and land and other non cash items to charities?

 

[Tom Paris]

There are 756 billionaires in the US. Do any of you know much about the other 755 of them. Can we just replace “billionaire” to Musk since that’s the true target of another I Hate Musk thread.

I didn't know Musk paid for trips for SC justices. Or paid off their debt. It doesn't bother you at all that guys like him are going to help make decisions on whether or not some of our parents' $1200 SS check gets cut?

You don't find that just a LITTLE disgusting?

 

[abby97]

How does Musk buy an entire social media platform simply to prop up nutbags that gets Trump elected? And then buy his way into his inner circle? This is a major problem.

You're cute, you remind me of my 1 1/2 year old grandson who just points at things, yells, and jumps up and down because that is all he knows how to do.

 

[HawkeyeShawn]

I didn't know Musk paid for trips for SC justices. Or paid off their debt. It doesn't bother you at all that guys like him are going to help make decisions on whether or not some of our parents' $1200 SS check gets cut?

You don't find that just a LITTLE disgusting?

Do you think George Soros has any influence over democrats and their policies? Would you rather the influence be hidden or transparent?

One thing I’ve learned is that it doesn’t matter how I feel, what I do, or how much I bitch about it. You, me and the rest of us peasants have no control over what happens in DC. But I guess some of you find it fun throwing temper tantrums every day.

 

[LunchBox50]

And you worship Che Guevara, Pol Pot and Bernie Sanders. Do you think they were good people? It’s people like you who are the greediest people in the world. You’re jealous and bitter towards because you’re a failure in life. You just take the happiness and joy out of life for everyone. Capitalism has given people plenty of opportunities but you and your Marxist leeches would rather be insufferable keyboard warriors. You have bigger problems in your life than worrying about billionaires.

THAT'S RIGHT HITMAN!!!!!! DA TC NOLE WORSHIPS DA BERNIE AND DA SQUAD AND DA CHE GUEVARA AND DA SLOW JOE AND DA BARRY HUSSEIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HE THINKS THESE RADICAL MARXIST LIBTAHD LOSAHS ARE GOOD PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MAYBE DA TC NOLE SHOULD QUIT EATING SEMEN AND SOY IN DA INTERSTATE BATHHOUSES AND CONSIDER DA MAGA AGENDA AND TRUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MAYBE THEN DA TC NOLE WILL BE MAN ENOUGH TO COME TO SOUTHERN CLAYTON COUNTY AND CRUSH CANS OF ICE COLD SPRITE WITH DA REAL FOOKIN ALPHA DAWGS LIKE ME AND DA HITMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HOW ABOUT INSTEAD OF BEING A MARXIST LEECH WITH DA KEYBOARD HE GETS TO WORK ON DA CASSVILLE BRIDGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Aardvark86]

I disagree on inheritance taxes. The heirs get money that their parent already paid taxes on. Likely enormous amounts of taxes. What that person does with what’s left is none of our business.
If I had a billion and left it to my family members instead of the government so freaking what?
Most of the entrepreneurs you are criticizing (because whether you admit it or not you are resentful and envious) have so much of their wealth in stock or the appraised value of their enterprise and not sitting in a bank as cash. Unrealized gains and stock options they’d have to buy if they exercise those options.
By the way it seems to get reported every year how much money these folks have, but far less often is it reported how much they have given to charity every year.

I think of how many people have jobs in industries that depend on these folks who are statistically few in number but buy “luxury” items that mean annual outlays for maintenance, repairs, upgrades, and how much their multi million dollar residence pays in local property taxes. Or the skilled trades who build these homes. Those are American jobs.

Re inheritance taxes, I'm sort in the camp that, upon death, capital gains of estate assets (eg, stock) should be taxable, but that the heirs may elect to hold the asset with a refreshed basis as of the estate settlement date.

 

[Tiny Hands Trump]

I don’t mind when they buy houses and islands and giant yachts.

I don’t like the idea of buying a President.

A poster here said government should fear the people. I wonder if that applies to people who use their wealth to buy the government and rig the system in their favor?

 

[soonerinlOUisiana]

I mean, sure I know the thread title is a bit much, but at what point of accumulating wealth does it become OCD/hoarding/narcissism or flat out evil.

I would think at 250 million, or so, a normal human would begin to really start giving the rest away to make the world better. Certainly by 1 billion if you just wanted bragging rights.

With 250 million, you could live an opulent lifestyle and have money set up for all your kids and their descendants to be well off.

They say money corrupts so it makes you wonder about the mentality of the people who just can’t stop accumulating wealth after the first say 250 to 1000 million dollars. They almost have to be warped/OCD/hoarder types and / or massive narcissistic tendencies and / or simply evil.

Remember before you defend, many of these people are despots / oligarchs / dictators. Also remember before you defend these people in human history the last 6000 years billionaire predecessors were almost all most cruel emperors/kings and queens / barbarians hoarding their wealth from conquest and tax of the conquered / peasants.

Cliffs notes: Billionaires should be shunned and made unpopular because almost by definition they are not good people. Sadly, right now they are more often deified and borderline worshipped. A better trend would be to deify and worship the people who give their billions away.

You really should worry less about what other people have.

 

[beanerhawk]

Have you ever considered that the mere accumulation of wealth itself is a benefit to society or culture? Unless you are a drug dealer or criminal stealing someone else's hard earned money, a wealthy person is providing a good or service that many many people must want or need. Who is to say how much money one needs? You state $250 million, why? Why not $100 million or a billion or ten billion?

Don't you believe these wealthy people aren't giving their money away and/or providing benefits to those in need? Who provided funding for thousands of libraries at the beginning of the 20th century? Who started St. Judes? Think about it.

I will never understand the villainization of success. In the U.S. anyone can achieve success if motivated and driven enough.

Jealousy, resentfulness. How ever you want to word it.

 

[Kinnick.At.Night]

Billionaires should absolutely pay their fair share of taxes. So should corporations. Outside of that, I don't care how wealthy anyone gets or what they do with their money. Philanthropy, of course, is a wonderful thing. Yet, I don't hold not being involved in any charitable organizations against anyone. Mega-rich or not. It's a free country.

 

[BelemNole]

 

[Moral]

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That's a good watch.

 

[BelemNole]

That's a good watch.

It will be ignored until long after the killings start

 

[BlIIlken2]

Most are clearly on the spectrum and lack all social awareness. Also they’re addicted to ketamine and opioids. Wonderful combo for detachment from reality. Sure let them rule us all.

 

[luvmyhawks]

It was a second house for him and his 3 member family. Bought two ocean front mansions and tore them down to build his house.

It wasn't a matter of need. It was what he wanted and he could easily afford it. I want to say the property taxes were close to $500k per year.

Holy crap. That is some serious "**** you" money right there. And good for him. It is his, he can do what he wants with it.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

Most are clearly on the spectrum and lack all social awareness. Also they’re addicted to ketamine and opioids. Wonderful combo for detachment from reality. Sure let them rule us all.

The tech billionaires seem like complete weirdos.

 

[fsu1jreed]

They have “fuk you” money. It’s really that simple

The have fvck EVERYONE money

 

[BelemNole]

 

[luvmyhawks]

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I can’t focus on anything she is saying because of that god awful distracting background.

 

[BelemNole]

I can’t focus on anything she is saying because of that god awful distracting background.

TLDR - focusing primarily on shareholder value is bad for everyone but CEOs and hedge funds.

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

TLDR - focusing primarily on shareholder value is bad for everyone but CEOs and hedge funds.

There is nothing wrong with focusing on shareholder value as long as you have a long term view.

As someone who has spent a lot of time in quarterly board meetings in my career the biggest issue is the relentless focus on short term value. It forces suboptimal management decisions that sacrifice long term value for propping up the books in the immediate term.

That and of course an adherence to ethical practices. One of the greatest and easiest lessons from business school was “never do anything your kids would be embarrassed to read about on the front page of the Wall Street Journal”.

 

[TC Nole OX]

Here's E-Loon sending the MAGA mob after a judge who didn't rule in his favor


A toxic brew of money and threats is perverting the courts

A toxic brew of money and threats is perverting the courts

Alex Jones and Elon Musk are using MAGA tactics to intimidate judges.

www.publicnotice.co

 

[TC Nole OX]

Here's E-Loon pontificating about recycling

 

[BelemNole]

There is nothing wrong with focusing on shareholder value as long as you have a long term view.

As someone who has spent a lot of time in quarterly board meetings in my career the biggest issue is the relentless focus on short term value. It forces suboptimal management decisions that sacrifice long term value for propping up the books in the immediate term.

That and of course an adherence to ethical practices. One of the greatest and easiest lessons from business school was “never do anything your kids would be embarrassed to read about on the front page of the Wall Street Journal”.

Hence the TLDR

 

[desihawk]

I am not envious - I have my own wealth. You infer a lot for someone that doesn’t know me. Aren’t you always calling people out for doing that to you?

I agree on stock and family businesses. I would not tax those on the give away. Only when the gain is realized (I.e. when the stock or family farm is sold). So someone inherits their dad’s hardware store - great. If they are willing to work hard and grow it I have no issue - I wouldn’t tax the transfer of that asset yet. Once they sell it I think their cost basis for owning it should be set at $0 (excluding any capital improvements they made of course) and therefore 100% of the gain on it is taxable - just like if dad had sold the business in the first place.

As I said in my post - if we didn’t have a fiscal issue in this country I wouldn’t care. But we do. At some point your grandkids and mine will pay the price for the deficits. And there is NO way to cut spending enough to balance the budget unless we hit social security and Medicare, so we are faced with some bad choices, we either have to reduce your entitlements or we have to raise revenue. I don’t want that to be the case, but I won’t stick my head in the sand about it either.

I would choose to raise revenue over cutting entitlements. And the absolute fairest way I can figure out is inheritance. I would also flatten the income tax brackets and eliminate all the loopholes for what it’s worth.

Finally where did I criticize the entrepreneurs or billionaires? If anything I celebrated entrepreneurship, by criticizing those who didn’t earn the money in the first place.

fiscal deficits or not i can’t bring myself to support the idea of taking away the right to pass on inheritance no matter how obscene if that’s what a person who earned it wants to do. it will change the fundamental nature of this society and exonomy for the worse. besides the argument can be made that recipients of redistribution wouldn’t have earned it either. instead perhaps incentives to put money to use or even make money in various ways that benefit society would be preferable…leave the final choice of what to do with earnings to the earner.

 

[goldmom]

I thought her statements were thought provoking but she does address it from what I think is her political view, which is understandable.
She mentioned as one point that the average corporate life span has shrunk from 75 years to 15.
I think that needs exploring and discussion.

Many corporations now are started based on a new idea or product and the founders (the big idea guys) always had the intent of selling to the big dog in the field and walking off with several hundred million. But that’s not always a bad thing.
Others are interested in merging for various reasons like an economy of scale or to avoid the expense of expansion into a geographic competitor with no guarantee of success. The government’s denial of the Kroger/Albertsons merger this week recognized that such a merger would not benefit the American consumer.

Shareholder value increases happens when a company is well managed, costs are under control, and profit growth is achieved. The company value increases, the shares go up and so shareholders benefit. It’s not necessarily the first aim of senior management. It’s a good benefit. Who doesn’t check on their 401 from time to time and hopes that the stocks in their portfolio have increased? If Management gets the opportunity to get stock options they hope will increase in value so of course it only makes sense for them to toil to make the value increase. It also helps the corporation retain experienced managers which is in turn a benefit to the continued success of the company AND the shareholders.
The President of a corporation will have goals for success the Board of Directors has set.
If those goals are met the President is rewarded.

My late husband used to talk about how the Accounting Department VP’s would have so much sway over how a company was run from quarter to quarter, bottom line period, and they often had no vision or understanding of how and why Marketing and Strategic Planning could improve a company’s value. (LOL my son is the Finance EVP of a large company and he’d argue the point with his Dad if he were here)
In consumer products new offerings (sometimes called line extensions) were the lifeblood for growth.
If for example some had had their way there would only be regular Doritos - no Cool Ranch flavor, What a crime that would have been. 😜 There would be no lite beers. No Cherry Diet Coke, etc etc.

 

[Ree4]

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[Formerly Rockymtnole]

There is nothing wrong with focusing on shareholder value as long as you have a long term view.

As someone who has spent a lot of time in quarterly board meetings in my career the biggest issue is the relentless focus on short term value. It forces suboptimal management decisions that sacrifice long term value for propping up the books in the immediate term.

That and of course an adherence to ethical practices. One of the greatest and easiest lessons from business school was “never do anything your kids would be embarrassed to read about on the front page of the Wall Street Journal”.

Don’t you think a lot of this is ultimately tied to stock price and performance measures affecting bonuses and equity comp?

There are so many ways to cook the books to show better results, and at other times C suite can sacrifice the next quarter for the present one and then the cycle continues.

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

Don’t you think a lot of this is ultimately tied to stock price and performance measures affecting bonuses and equity comp?

There are so many ways to cook the books to show better results, and at other times C suite can sacrifice the next quarter for the present one and then the cycle continues.

Yes, incentive structures are often misguided and somewhat easily gamed. I imagine many of us (me included) have played that game and IMO it really isn’t in the best long term interest of shareholders, but that was the behavior the board rewarded.

In their early days companies like Google and Tesla didn’t issue any quarterly guidance and did not set short term profit goals. That helped them focus on long term value creation. The results speak for themselves.

 

[desihawk]

i have a hypothetical question. if there is UBI that covers reasonable room, board, tuition (college or professional certifications), and health for every citizen but those in ubi are (by definition) at the bottom of the economic ladder while there are others obscenely wealthy and able to own lavish properties and indulge in fantastical activities that would be impossible for those on UBI, would revolution be called for?

 

[CarolinaHawkeye]

You're cute, you remind me of my 1 1/2 year old grandson who just points at things, yells, and jumps up and down because that is all he knows how to do.

That apple doesn't fall far the tree.

 

[abby97]

Billionaires should absolutely pay their fair share of taxes. So should corporations. Outside of that, I don't care how wealthy anyone gets or what they do with their money. Philanthropy, of course, is a wonderful thing. Yet, I don't hold not being involved in any charitable organizations against anyone. Mega-rich or not. It's a free country.

Would you and everyone else stop saying their fair share unless you are able to define that.

 

[goldmom]

Would you and everyone else stop saying their fair share unless you are able to define that.

They pay what they owe after their accountant has utilized every legal deduction allowed by law.
You (or I) might not like those deductions but if they’re out there why wouldn’t they apply them to their tax bill?

 

[Tom Paris]

You're cute, you remind me of my 1 1/2 year old grandson who just points at things, yells, and jumps up and down because that is all he knows how to do.

You’re not as smart as your grandson. Stay away so you don’t ruin him.

 

[Tom Paris]

Do you think George Soros has any influence over democrats and their policies? Would you rather the influence be hidden or transparent?

One thing I’ve learned is that it doesn’t matter how I feel, what I do, or how much I bitch about it. You, me and the rest of us peasants have no control over what happens in DC. But I guess some of you find it fun throwing temper tantrums every day.

You didn’t answer. You tried a whataboutism and added a dash of conspiracy.

 

[Tom Paris]

Billionaires should absolutely pay their fair share of taxes. So should corporations. Outside of that, I don't care how wealthy anyone gets or what they do with their money. Philanthropy, of course, is a wonderful thing. Yet, I don't hold not being involved in any charitable organizations against anyone. Mega-rich or not. It's a free country.

I agree with this. My issue is that the system is rigged in their favor. They buy the system and the rest of us, Democrat and Republican voters, middle class and poor, get constantly screwed.