Are Billionaires mentally ill / evil?

[doughuddl2]

I mean, sure I know the thread title is a bit much, but at what point of accumulating wealth does it become OCD/hoarding/narcissism or flat out evil.

I would think at 250 million, or so, a normal human would begin to really start giving the rest away to make the world better. Certainly by 1 billion if you just wanted bragging rights.

With 250 million, you could live an opulent lifestyle and have money set up for all your kids and their descendants to be well off.

They say money corrupts so it makes you wonder about the mentality of the people who just can’t stop accumulating wealth after the first say 250 to 1000 million dollars. They almost have to be warped/OCD/hoarder types and / or massive narcissistic tendencies and / or simply evil.

Remember before you defend, many of these people are despots / oligarchs / dictators. Also remember before you defend these people in human history the last 6000 years billionaire predecessors were almost all most cruel emperors/kings and queens / barbarians hoarding their wealth from conquest and tax of the conquered / peasants.

Cliffs notes: Billionaires should be shunned and made unpopular because almost by definition they are not good people. Sadly, right now they are more often deified and borderline worshipped. A better trend would be to deify and worship the people who give their billions away.

Swifties are gonna stomp YOU!

 

[ping72]

That’s your choice. If you have a chance to “exploit” your talent, ability, or experience in an organization where it might be superior to others vying for a promotion but decide not to …. Then you have opted to go in a different direction.

We are operating under very different definitions of the word exploit. I think you are using the top definition, I’m using the second.

exploit
2 of 2

verb​

ex·ploit ik-ˈsplȯit ˈek-ˌsplȯit
exploited; exploiting; exploits
transitive verb
1
: to make productive use of : UTILIZE

exploiting your talents
exploit your opponent's weakness


2
: to make use of meanly or unfairly for own’s own advantage

exploiting migrant farm workers

 

[Jerome Silberman]

So what’s your solution?

To continue to let anyone that wants to dismiss worries of exponential wealth consolidation and it's impact on our government and us as simple envy, that they're being lazy.

It's dismissive, dumb and not even close to pertinent.

 

[Jerome Silberman]

I don’t feel a connection to a lot of people- rich or poor.
Are you saying that anyone who says Mills/Bills are allowed to be rich in a capitalist society is a clock punching f***?

I'm saying it's bizarre that largely through podcasts and social media blue collar workers have come to the conclusion that the silicone valley brain trust's vision of the future is in line with their own.

Musk, Theil, Vance and a few other billionaire tech bankers in Trump's circle of influence are tightly connected to the neoreactionary movement. New era techno- monarchy may be something you're good with, but I'm not.

 

[Colonoscopy]

 

[desihawk]

To continue to let anyone that wants to dismiss worries of exponential wealth consolidation and it's impact on our government and us as simple envy, that they're being lazy.

It's dismissive, dumb and not even close to pertinent.

to reduce influence of money in politics rules/laws that prohibit blatant profiting by politicians (revolving door career options for instance) would go a long way. something that simplistic might make a huge difference by improving the healthcare clusterfvck system. both parties will likely have to do their bit (by targeting areas they are free to operate upon) coz they are beholden to different billionaires

 

[Jerome Silberman]

to reduce influence of money in politics rules/laws that prohibit blatant profiting by politicians (revolving door career options for instance) would go a long way. something that simplistic might make a huge difference by improving the healthcare clusterfvck system. both parties will likely have to do their bit (by targeting areas they are free to operate upon) coz they are beholden to different billionaires

It's my opinion that it will take a catastrophic event to get enough people on board with anything like that. The populace has chosen to believe that the government is their enemy while electing people that are dead set on removing any protections from outsized influence of money in politics.

More to the point, the horse is out of the barn.

 

[goldmom]

I'm saying it's bizarre that largely through podcasts and social media blue collar workers have come to the conclusion that the silicone valley brain trust's vision of the future is in line with their own.

Musk, Theil, Vance and a few other billionaire tech bankers in Trump's circle of influence are tightly connected to the neoreactionary movement. New era techno- monarchy may be something you're good with, but I'm not.

I think that’s called differing viewpoints. I believe those are still legal.

 

[desihawk]

It's my opinion that it will take a catastrophic event to get enough people on board with anything like that. The populace has chosen to believe that the government is their enemy while electing people that are dead set on removing any protections from outsized influence of money in politics.

More to the point, the horse is out of the barn.

this is the time dems in particular should be strategic. for instance the dems are pissed at musk for funding the opposite side but hammering musk isn’t pragmatic currently. he contributed to the rep campaign, it’s irrational to expect rep politicians who are currently in majority to disempower him. but this would be the perfect time to focus on disempowering influence of say the health insurance corps who could be taken out with rep help. when dems do get into seat of power then go after musk with the strength in numbers in congress/senate. otherwise the politicians are only too happy to pretend like they are trying to win unwinnable skirmishes while profiting forever. what i wrote does sound simplistic in expecting to outwit politicians but i’ll let it be

 

[TC Nole OX]

 

[TC Nole OX]

 

[TC Nole OX]

 

[Finance85]

And if those people were compelled to liquidate these assets they’d be taxed from here to next month. Imagine if one of these people were forced to sell millions of shares all at once. The effect of those shares hitting the market in one fell swoop would severely impact the price.
Since other folks also own shares it would affect their 401/IRA/Roth as well, and once again the little guy takes a hit.

Your main point in your previous post still remains - what is passed on is nobody's business. Anyone arguing otherwise believes that governments own us. It's pure wealth envy. Wealth isn't a zero sum game.

 

[ping72]

Elon Musk has $425 billion dollars. We could completely cure world hunger by 2030 with $40 billion dollars.

He could cure world hunger and still have $385 billion dollars but doesn’t. You’ll never convince me he’s not a complete piece of garbage and scourge on the world.

EVERY other time in human history the wealth disparity got this bad, poor people killed all the rich people and stole their stuff. It’s inevitable at this point.

 

[Tom Paris]

Your main point in your previous post still remains - what is passed on is nobody's business. Anyone arguing otherwise believes that governments own us. It's pure wealth envy. Wealth isn't a zero sum game.

It isn't envy. That's a lazy argument. The game is RIGGED for them and nobody other than billionaires should be fine with that. We're told the threats to our livelihoods are the poor and immigrants. It's the thieves at the top who are the problem. Again, they thank you for your help.

 

[Tom Paris]

View embedded media

HE'S NOT(wasn't) WRONG.

 

[Finance85]

I am not envious - I have my own wealth. You infer a lot for someone that doesn’t know me. Aren’t you always calling people out for doing that to you?

I agree on stock and family businesses. I would not tax those on the give away. Only when the gain is realized (I.e. when the stock or family farm is sold). So someone inherits their dad’s hardware store - great. If they are willing to work hard and grow it I have no issue - I wouldn’t tax the transfer of that asset yet. Once they sell it I think their cost basis for owning it should be set at $0 (excluding any capital improvements they made of course) and therefore 100% of the gain on it is taxable - just like if dad had sold the business in the first place.

As I said in my post - if we didn’t have a fiscal issue in this country I wouldn’t care. But we do. At some point your grandkids and mine will pay the price for the deficits. And there is NO way to cut spending enough to balance the budget unless we hit social security and Medicare, so we are faced with some bad choices, we either have to reduce your entitlements or we have to raise revenue. I don’t want that to be the case, but I won’t stick my head in the sand about it either.

I would choose to raise revenue over cutting entitlements. And the absolute fairest way I can figure out is inheritance. I would also flatten the income tax brackets and eliminate all the loopholes for what it’s worth.

Finally where did I criticize the entrepreneurs or billionaires? If anything I celebrated entrepreneurship, by criticizing those who didn’t earn the money in the first place.

Feel free to write a check to the Treasury for any amount over and above what you actually owe.

Cutting spending isn't the entire answer but that's where we need to start. I don't know how we ever got by on $2T less baseline spending just 5 years ago. ::sarcasm::

The fasted way to grow federal revenue isn't increasing taxes on billionaires, it's increasing GDP. I'm surprised someone of your means doesn't know that.

You also might be surprised at what's misclassified as "entitlements" by politicians to justify spending.

 

[Finance85]

It isn't envy. That's a lazy argument. The game is RIGGED for them and nobody other than billionaires should be fine with that. We're told the threats to our livelihoods are the poor and immigrants. It's the thieves at the top who are the problem. Again, they thank you for your help.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Get to a net worth of 7 figures and we can talk about a net worth of 10 figures.

Why do you care how much someone else has? When is the last time you wrote a check to the treasury for more than you owe in income taxes?

 

[goldmom]

It isn't envy. That's a lazy argument. The game is RIGGED for them and nobody other than billionaires should be fine with that. We're told the threats to our livelihoods are the poor and immigrants. It's the thieves at the top who are the problem. Again, they thank you for your help.

Oh my. You’re still sitting at the kids table aren’t you?

 

[goldmom]

Elon Musk has $425 billion dollars. We could completely cure world hunger by 2030 with $40 billion dollars.

He could cure world hunger and still have $385 billion dollars but doesn’t. You’ll never convince me he’s not a complete piece of garbage and scourge on the world.

EVERY other time in human history the wealth disparity got this bad, poor people killed all the rich people and stole their stuff. It’s inevitable at this point.

Got your targets picked out yet?

 

[Finance85]

Billionaires should absolutely pay their fair share of taxes. So should corporations. Outside of that, I don't care how wealthy anyone gets or what they do with their money. Philanthropy, of course, is a wonderful thing. Yet, I don't hold not being involved in any charitable organizations against anyone. Mega-rich or not. It's a free country.

Corporations don't pay taxes. They simply pass the taxes on to their customers / shareholders.

 

[Finance85]

Most are clearly on the spectrum and lack all social awareness. Also they’re addicted to ketamine and opioids. Wonderful combo for detachment from reality. Sure let them rule us all.

Names?

 

[Finance85]

I agree with this. My issue is that the system is rigged in their favor. They buy the system and the rest of us, Democrat and Republican voters, middle class and poor, get constantly screwed.

How are you getting screwed? Be specific.

 

[Finance85]

Do you have the ability to increase your wealth? It's not a zero sum game. Why do you care how much someone else has?

 

[Finance85]

Bump - I still maintain I am right on this, despite some people saying they have met or know a billionaire or two and they seem normal. Serial killers often seem normal too.

Bezos is spending 600 million on a ****ing wedding.

Jeff Bezos to marry fiancée Lauren Sanchez in lavish $600M Aspen wedding next weekend: report

Bezos, 60, and his fiancé, 54, have remained mum on their wedding plans and have not yet publicly confirmed their wedding date.

nypost.com

Cool. Lots of people will benefit by that. LOTS of people.

 

[Finance85]

I don’t care about Bezos. Dude created a company that employs a lot of people and makes life easier for most of us. Lots of good, certainly you could also argue lots of bad. But we the public have voted - we like Amazon and Bezos has reaped the rewards. If he wants to spend his money on megayachts and a trashy second wife, ok. He looks ridiculous and kinda pathetic, but whatever.

I do wish we could get money out of politics, though. Musk has shown how easy it is to influence politicians and elections by throwing around obscene amounts of cash and that’s not good.

Yet Kamala just raised and spent over $1B in 2 months. Where did that money come from?

 

[Finance85]

We are operating under very different definitions of the word exploit. I think you are using the top definition, I’m using the second.

exploit
2 of 2

verb​

ex·ploit ik-ˈsplȯit ˈek-ˌsplȯit
exploited; exploiting; exploits
transitive verb
1
: to make productive use of : UTILIZE

exploiting your talents
exploit your opponent's weakness


2
: to make use of meanly or unfairly for own’s own advantage

exploiting migrant farm workers

Do the farm workers have other choices that are more lucrative? If so, why aren't they taking advantage of those choices? If not, what decisions did they make in life to not have those choices?

 

[BlIIlken2]

Names?

Zuck and elon. Don’t need anymore.

 

[desihawk]

Elon Musk has $425 billion dollars. We could completely cure world hunger by 2030 with $40 billion dollars.

He could cure world hunger and still have $385 billion dollars but doesn’t. You’ll never convince me he’s not a complete piece of garbage and scourge on the world.

EVERY other time in human history the wealth disparity got this bad, poor people killed all the rich people and stole their stuff. It’s inevitable at this point.

is the bolded part really true? if so, heck i am okay (and i suspect most americans would be) with our government writing a check for 40B at taxpayer expense. we waste billions on the worst things, might as well tack on 40B for a great cause.

 

[Moral]

Zuck and elon. Don’t need anymore.

Peter Thiel

 

[Rifler]

is the bolded part really true? if so, heck i am okay (and i suspect most americans would be) with our government writing a check for 40B at taxpayer expense. we waste billions on the worst things, might as well tack on 40B for a great cause.

I don't believe it,.. Perhaps 40B puts a dent in one year?

 

[Hawk_4shur]

Billionaires are not all evil, just like people are not all stupid. It just seems that way.

Fun fact - the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation had net assets of $71 billion at the end of 2023 and provided almost $8 billion in support around the world. Warren Buffet's net worth is $141 billion and the bulk of his estate will go to the Gates Foundation. Bill Gates is worth $103 billion and I'm guessing most of his wealth will go to the foundation. That's potentially a $300 billion foundation.

That's not to shabby.

 

[Moral]

Billionaires are not all evil, just like people are not all stupid. It just seems that way.

Fun fact - the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation had net assets of $71 billion at the end of 2023 and provided almost $8 billion in support around the world. Warren Buffet's net worth is $141 billion and the bulk of his estate will go to the Gates Foundation. Bill Gates is worth $103 billion and I'm guessing most of his wealth will go to the foundation. That's potentially a $300 billion foundation.

That's not to shabby.

Mostly they have their own foundations as tax loopholes.

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

Feel free to write a check to the Treasury for any amount over and above what you actually owe.

Cutting spending isn't the entire answer but that's where we need to start. I don't know how we ever got by on $2T less baseline spending just 5 years ago. ::sarcasm::

The fasted way to grow federal revenue isn't increasing taxes on billionaires, it's increasing GDP. I'm surprised someone of your means doesn't know that.

You also might be surprised at what's misclassified as "entitlements" by politicians to justify spending.

Why the snark in your first sentence?

This is the single largest issue we have as a nation IMO and no one wants to actually find a solution. Relying on GDP growth plus spending cuts alone is just silly as it comes nowhere close to a solution - we have to push those, but also find more. The economy is doing well right now and it was doing very well under Trump and late term Obama. Yet we are still churning out record deficits every year. There is NO realistic GDP growth rate that gets us to a balanced budget. It would have to be unrealistically high.

We have to bite this bullet at some point: deep painful spending cuts AND a tax increase. Either we do so with a plan or we allow our kids/grandkids to pay the price haphazardly when the dollar devalues and we go into a hyperinflation cycle.

As to entitlements, I am sure you are right there must be some fat in there somewhere…I highly doubt it measures in the trillions - which is what we would need. Cuts are a major component, but they aren’t the panacea that some think they are. Plus, there ain’t no way it actually happens. Trump’s team will find some hundreds of billions of pet cuts (dept of education etc) and declare victory while actually increasing the deficit above where Biden has us.

Unfortunately it is highly likely that we run record or near record deficits every year for the next four years.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

Mostly they have their own foundations as tax loopholes.

How is it a tax "loophole"?

Unless it is formed and operated by our past and future King, of course.

Edit - this is my 20,000th post! Congrats on me selecting you for the honor.

 

[Moral]

How is it a tax "loophole"?

Unless it is formed and operated by our past and future King, of course.

Edit - this is my 20,000th post! Congrats on me selecting you for the honor.

How the Ultrawealthy Use Private Foundations to Bank Millions in Tax Deductions While Giving the Public Little in Return

It’s a simple bargain: The rich get huge tax breaks by donating art, property and company shares to benefit the public. But some donors collect millions while offering little or no public access.

www.propublica.org

I'm honored to be your 20,000th post.

 

[Finance85]

Zuck and elon. Don’t need anymore.

You just posted two names that you have no evidence of what you accused them of. I call BS.

 

[Finance85]

Why the snark in your first sentence?

This is the single largest issue we have as a nation IMO and no one wants to actually find a solution. Relying on GDP growth plus spending cuts alone is just silly as it comes nowhere close to a solution - we have to push those, but also find more. The economy is doing well right now and it was doing very well under Trump and late term Obama. Yet we are still churning out record deficits every year. There is NO realistic GDP growth rate that gets us to a balanced budget. It would have to be unrealistically high.

We have to bite this bullet at some point: deep painful spending cuts AND a tax increase. Either we do so with a plan or we allow our kids/grandkids to pay the price haphazardly when the dollar devalues and we go into a hyperinflation cycle.

As to entitlements, I am sure you are right there must be some fat in there somewhere…I highly doubt it measures in the trillions - which is what we would need. Cuts are a major component, but they aren’t the panacea that some think they are. Plus, there ain’t no way it actually happens. Trump’s team will find some hundreds of billions of pet cuts (dept of education etc) and declare victory while actually increasing the deficit above where Biden has us.

Unfortunately it is highly likely that we run record or near record deficits every year for the next four years.

You have no idea what you are talking about. GDP growth always produces more income tax revenue than raising rates on billionaires. It's a fact. Discussion over.

 

[BlIIlken2]

You just posted two names that you have no evidence of what you accused them of. I call BS.

Google Zuckerberg and autism
Google elon and ketamine and autism

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

You have no idea what you are talking about. GDP growth always produces more income tax revenue than raising rates on billionaires. It's a fact. Discussion over.

Of course it does - but it is NOT enough. This is a AND situation. We need to:

• Dramatically cut spending, AND
• Keep the economy strong, AND
• Raise taxes somehow (I vote inheritance, but feel free to propose some other way to get to a balanced budget)

If you don’t see the scale of the problem then may I suggest getting a new handle…cause you don’t know jack about money/finance if you don’t see we have both a spending and a revenue problem. It is so blatantly obvious that you either have your head in the sand or I have misread your intelligence over the years.