Are these reasonable expectations for the Iowa basketball program?
- Thread starter BlackNGoldBleeder
- Start date
Just trying to bolster your argument.
Hell, over the last dozen years, I would’ve rather made a more daring hire and possibly seen it fail. Then, make another daring hire and possibly seen it fail. What would the difference be to where we are now? Fran has little to show, success-wise, in his time here.
I love winning and hate losing, so, How do I legitimately adopt this approach?
Seriously.
I’m not making an argument as much as I’m posing benchmarks as a point of reference to springboard discussion from. Program success is not linear. You could have a fabulous 2-3 year run followed up with a four-year run of mediocre to above average results and then the cycle repeats. That’s often the case at programs that are not traditional blue bloods. The greater question is the overall state and trajectory of the Iowa basketball program. When I see the same issues plague Fran teams—athleticism and defense—while having a once-in-a-lifetime talent in Luka Garza teamed with an NBA second rounder (Weezy) and a future lottery pick (Ke. Murray) and Iowa still can’t come reasonably close to winning the conference or making it out of the first weekend of the tournament, it leaves you with serious doubts about the future.
In truth, it’s hard to envision a future outlook with Fran being any better than Dr. Tom’s average seasons. It seems enough fans are content with that, though, but it makes my interest in following Iowa basketball decrease. And that sucks, because I miss being excited about Iowa basketball.
To your point about coaching turnover, it’s less relevant today thanks to the portal. A coach can come into a program and substantially improve things in year one, so the impact of a Todd Lickliter-hire is significantly mitigated because it doesn’t take as long to dig out of a hole as it used to. In short, ADs can afford to be more aggressive in hiring and firing coaches. I’m not advocating knee-jerk reactions to one bad or mediocre season, but after more than a decade you should have a pretty good idea of what a coach’s floor and ceiling are.
I was being sarcastic. And throwing out the excuses we always hear.
Lol. Please. I want the offense to improve substantially, but comparing the Iowa basketball program under Fran to what Kirk has accomplished during his tenure is laughable.
The fact Iowa won ten football games without a quarterback is a small miracle.
The past 5-6 years have been the best run in program history. The future also looks bright given the past few recruiting classes (Iowa is also in the hunt for a lot of top players in 2023).We don't meet your true contender requirement though
Can that be said about Iowa basketball? No.
Does everyone in this thread feel the Iowa Athletic Department is fully committed to a winning basketball program?
With the geographic hurdles that have always been in place, how many additional hurdles does Fran have to clear to successfully recruit against other teams in the region?
With the geographic hurdles that have always been in place, how many additional hurdles does Fran have to clear to successfully recruit against other teams in the region?
And I stated in my OP most or all of the criteria.
In terms of the contender for a conference title, that basically works out to roughly two times a decade. I would argue Ferentz has done that.
Does Iowa State face the same geographical hurdles? I ask because recruiting hasn’t been an issue for them since Hoiberg.
They do face similar hurdles. So what’s holding Iowa back from at least similar results?
No, in the context of what other power conference programs expect.
Having an AD who has been demonstrated as incompetent at his job during public litigation, handling of coaching contracts, the basics of personnel management in a large organization and a fair number of other instances is a prime example of the lack of willingness to do what it takes. This has lead directly to having a coach for more than a decade who has had far less accountability for on court performance that what many, if not most, of his power conference counterparts have to deal with when it comes to expectations. Fran has had multiple extensions now in the face of middling results.
Get rid of the AD, which is long overdue, and bring in one who is more in line with what other power conference programs expect. That's step #1.
Is replacing Fran the entire answer? Why hasn’t Iowa made it to the Sweet 16 since 1999? That’s three coaching cycles.
No. As I stated in my post above it starts with the AD.
Well, let’s think about it. Steve Alfraud, Todd Lickliter, and Fran McCaffery have been the coaches in that time frame. There’s your answer.
But, yes, it’s not easy to win at Iowa. Not impossible, but definitely not easy.
Leadership in the IAD is something that should definitely be examined.
Changes are needed.
I agree. But would have Iowa fans (and leadership) accepted a coach like Bruce Pearl? Auburn did. They are now winning. Do we need a coach like Pearl to win at Iowa?
Honestly? Hmmm.
Well, the NCAA hasn’t done shit to any of the blue bloods who have gotten caught cheating, and now with NIL, you tell me.
It really should have been more than 3 coaching cycles. But Alford was given too much time and it looks like Fran is being given the same.
Only 4 players on the current roster were born before our last Sweet Sixteen appearance. It has been too long and looking at that list of players is part of the reason. A former walk on who‘s scholarship should have been used on a Big Ten caliber player. A coach’s son that couldn’t throw a basketball into the ocean if he was unguarded and should be playing a different sport. A player more than five years older than the youngest player on the roster who is a shell of his former self thanks to injuries and wouldn’t even be here if not for Covid exceptions. And a player that is probably Big Ten backup caliber but has to be a starter for this team after transferring in from North Dakota.
I don’t know the answers. I’m just very curious of people’s thoughts. Pearl just landed a huge contract extension. They have accepted a certain level of risk to win.
There's a middle ground between what they're doing now and getting nailed with NCAA sanctions.
They could almost certainly be doing more and still not be pushing that envelope. This gets back to my argument that a new AD needs to be brought in who has higher expectations for on court results, specifically when it comes to the NCAA tourney.
All coaches want to win. Some coaches are under more scrutiny than others to show performance on the court or their jobs will be at risk. Fran appears to be on the far end of that spectrum in the sense that there is little pressure for on court results when it comes to keeping his job.
They could almost certainly be doing more and still not be pushing that envelope. This gets back to my argument that a new AD needs to be brought in who has higher expectations for on court results, specifically when it comes to the NCAA tourney.
All coaches want to win. Some coaches are under more scrutiny than others to show performance on the court or their jobs will be at risk. Fran appears to be on the far end of that spectrum in the sense that there is little pressure for on court results when it comes to keeping his job.
Some criteria you laid out can be a little subjective. What is the top tier of the conference? What do you consider a serious contender?
I’m assuming for top tier, you mean top 4 of the conference. I’d consider any team within two games of first to be a serious contender.
Based on that, here is how Lute Olson met my interpretation of your criteria.
Top tier of B10 - 5 of 9
Finished Top 25 - 3 of 9
Serious conf contender - 3 of 9
Sweet 16 - 2 of 9
He passed half of your criteria.
I don’t really have a problem with you wanting more. We all have our own personal criteria.
My criteria is simple. How much recruiting capital does the coach have? When Matt Gatens wasn’t willing to play for Lickliter at Iowa, that’s when you know it’s time to move on.
Iowa hasn’t had this much to sell recruiting wise in at least two decades. They’ve already started strong in 2023 and we’ll see where it goes from here.
I’m assuming for top tier, you mean top 4 of the conference. I’d consider any team within two games of first to be a serious contender.
Based on that, here is how Lute Olson met my interpretation of your criteria.
Top tier of B10 - 5 of 9
Finished Top 25 - 3 of 9
Serious conf contender - 3 of 9
Sweet 16 - 2 of 9
He passed half of your criteria.
I don’t really have a problem with you wanting more. We all have our own personal criteria.
My criteria is simple. How much recruiting capital does the coach have? When Matt Gatens wasn’t willing to play for Lickliter at Iowa, that’s when you know it’s time to move on.
Iowa hasn’t had this much to sell recruiting wise in at least two decades. They’ve already started strong in 2023 and we’ll see where it goes from here.
It's hard to praise recruiting when Fran can't find a center and can't find anyone better than ash to give a scholly to...
I definitely don’t subscribe to that philosophy. Is that what you took from that question?
I can still be mad. People need to not take others so seriously.
FYI, I am over the Ferentz era.
This year’s team has its shortcomings. I do think (hope) they can earn an NCAA Tourney birth. They have an opportunity to do that.
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I agree. Fran is an impressive mind offensively. For some reason, he is unable to consistently motivate them on the defensive end. It’s a fatal flaw. Your point on the AD is well taken too. A new level of results accountability needs to be introduced into the program.
He’s got to be one of the dumbest posters on this board.
Lickliter is now the Head Coach of Evansville.
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