Are these reasonable expectations for the Iowa basketball program?

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

Be in the top tier of the conference 2/4 years.

Finish in the Top 25 2/4 years.

Be a serious contender for a conference title 1/4 years.

Make a Sweet 16 run or better 1/4 years.

Play your second best player more than 17 mpg.

Not play a guard shooting under 18% from the field and 3-point line 15 mpg.

If the answer to all or most of these is yes, why do we still keep a coach who has been here over a decade and can’t meet those basic expectations? If the answer is no, then why should anyone care about the basketball program?

Think about it. 🤔

 

[83Hawk]

No. You‘re totally unreasonable. We’re just Iowa. Can’t recruit here. Can’t get a good coach. Mediocrity is the best we can ever hope for, and is good enough. Remember what happened when we ran Tom Davis out of town? If Fran leaves, Iowa will immediately fall to Lick-level, and stay there forever. Be careful what you wish for.

I think that covers it.

 

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

No. You‘re totally unreasonable. We’re just Iowa. Can’t recruit here. Can’t get a good coach. Mediocrity is the best we can ever hope for, and is good enough. Remember what happened when we ran Tom Davis out of town? If Fran leaves, Iowa will immediately fall to Lick-level, and stay there forever. Be careful what you wish for.

I think that covers it.

So, in other words, stay indifferent? 😆

 

[ICWestfan]

Be in the top tier of the conference 2/4 years.

Finish in the Top 25 2/4 years.

Be a serious contender for a conference title 1/4 years.

Make a Sweet 16 run or better 1/4 years.

Play your second best player more than 17 mpg.

Not play a guard shooting under 18% from the field and 3-point line 15 mpg.

If the answer to all or most of these is yes, why do we still keep a coach who has been here over a decade and can’t meet those basic expectations? If the answer is no, then why should anyone care about the basketball program?

Think about it. 🤔

The last two are yes obviously. The rest depends on the makeup of your team so I won't try to answer those. I would challenge you to show me a team that fits the criteria of your first 4 questions (not blue bloods). I'm sure there are plenty out there, just don't know who they are.

 

[CO_hawk]

The population of Iowa is aging. The Iowa fan base is aging. Iowa coaches are aging. Failing to do anything of merit in football and basketball.
Not looking to good for support in the future. Mirroring Northwestern for fan support.

 

[TheTruthTheWholeTruth]

I support Fran overall but there are certainly some changes that need to be made. It’s time for Dillard and Speraw to ride off into the sunset. New blood is desperately needed at this point.

Also, the portal ain’t going away. It’s time to fill gaps as needed. I know he tried to get a couple of bigs this past off season but it didn’t pan out. Maybe that’s a positive sign that there was at least an effort but, like in recruiting, you need to seal the deal.

Define top tier… would that be top 3 in the conference? A top 25 ranking is kind of irrelevant as the tournament is how each team is judged. The Sweet 16 drought is completely unacceptable. Iowa should be able to put together a team to get there 2-3 times/decade.

 

[ZumaHawk]

Without the attacks on Fran about the minutes situation…..you can look at 3/4’s of every power 5 conference and say the exact same thing

 

[83Hawk]

So, in other words, stay indifferent? 😆

No. You need to become a Superfan and join the Sunshine Club.

 

[Suterman]

40 years of history says that 2 of the 1st 4 are not likely. 12 years of Fran say the last 2 might not happen.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

Be in the top tier of the conference 2/4 years.

Finish in the Top 25 2/4 years.

Be a serious contender for a conference title 1/4 years.

Make a Sweet 16 run or better 1/4 years.

Play your second best player more than 17 mpg.

Not play a guard shooting under 18% from the field and 3-point line 15 mpg.

If the answer to all or most of these is yes, why do we still keep a coach who has been here over a decade and can’t meet those basic expectations? If the answer is no, then why should anyone care about the basketball program?

Think about it. 🤔

I have been an lifelong fan of Iowa sports. I've lived less than 40 miles away from IC, or actually lived in IC, my entire life. I've bought a lot of tickets and donated a lot of money. My mother, father, wife, brother, and 3 sons all graduated from Iowa, and of course I did as well.

But I have no expectations for Iowa sports. I just watch them - now on TV exclusively - and hope they win.

You ask why "we" would keep a coach that doesn't meet these basic expectations - once "we" are all convinced, can "we" get a new coach?

Well, "we" don't get to set expectations - the University does. Fran must be achieving those.

So, I'll watch them. When it gets to awful to watch, I'll stop watching.

 

[kceasthawk]

The population of Iowa is aging. The Iowa fan base is aging. Iowa coaches are aging. Failing to do anything of merit in football and basketball.
Not looking to good for support in the future. Mirroring Northwestern for fan support.

I'm sorry. I know people are still upset with the offense but winning ten games, no matter how you do it, and playing for the CCG are not "failing to do anything of merit".....And please with the " mirroring NW for fan support". That simply is not the case......

 

[Lone Clone]

Be in the top tier of the conference 2/4 years.

Finish in the Top 25 2/4 years.

Be a serious contender for a conference title 1/4 years.

Make a Sweet 16 run or better 1/4 years.

Play your second best player more than 17 mpg.

Not play a guard shooting under 18% from the field and 3-point line 15 mpg.

If the answer to all or most of these is yes, why do we still keep a coach who has been here over a decade and can’t meet those basic expectations? If the answer is no, then why should anyone care about the basketball program?

Think about it. 🤔

The third and fourth are pretty tough, especially the third. When is the last time that happened?

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

No. You‘re totally unreasonable. We’re just Iowa. Can’t recruit here. Can’t get a good coach. Mediocrity is the best we can ever hope for, and is good enough. Remember what happened when we ran Tom Davis out of town? If Fran leaves, Iowa will immediately fall to Lick-level, and stay there forever. Be careful what you wish for.

I think that covers it.

Well, except for the fact that we actually hired Lick and had to deal with that for any amount of time suggests that there needs to at least be a f*** ton more caution in hiring the next head coach..............

Btw, Barta will still be around to hire the next bball and fball head coach after Fran and Kirk. So there's that to ponder as well.

 

[the24fan]

So, in other words, stay indifferent? 😆

Yep. The apathy path is the best solution going forward. Expect less then you are pleasantly surprised when they have a good year .

 

[LuteHawk]

Apathy is when Hawkeye fans stop buying tickets
to football and basketball games. It will not happen
at Kinnick Stadium, however next season at Carver
Hawkeye Arena will be a real test if the Murray Twins
are gone.

 

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

The third and fourth are pretty tough, especially the third. When is the last time that happened?

I wasn’t born the last time Iowa won the conference in basketball. I’m now 40.

I find a lot of these responses interesting, because I think you could argue Iowa was a contender last season and the year Tom Crean’s Hoosiers won it. So, maybe “serious” should be better qualified, but you could make an argument Fran has checked that box.

I also am surprised people think finishing in the top 25 fifty percent of the time is crazy, considering Dr. Tom did it six times in his Iowa tenure, which works out to almost fifty percent (6/13 seasons).

 

[HawkLogic]

Default is 0.500 in B1G...ie. completely average---any average coach can do that at Iowa over the long term. Davis, Alford, Fran have done it over 37 years. LIckliter was the outlier and that was only 3 years---fired and we moved on and he never got another job, so issue was clearly with Lickliter himself. Just like iowas success under Lute was due to superior coaching and 87 success for DAvis was setup by superior recruiting by Raveling.

Barta is the big problem....he clearly is inept and doesn't put any expectations on the coaching staffs.....so that is why nepotism and lawsuits are rampant.

I personally don't think Fran got enough out of last year's team. Fran did accomplish his goal of convincing a large part of the Fan base that CMAC was the best option....meanwhile Keegan was a backup and Kris never got any playing tiem. This year, I don't see a large talent difference between Wisconsin competing for B1G title and Iowa in 9th place.

A good CEO of sports would ask more out of Fran and it he improves great, and if not, let him know it is time
for him to move on. Fran's contract should not be renewed unless he wins a B1G tilte, or a BTT, or a sweet16 game....he's done none fo those things so far. The pressure of actual expectations might drive him
to quit running Iowa program as his own fiefdom.

 

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

Apathy is when Hawkeye fans stop buying tickets
to football and basketball games. It will not happen
at Kinnick Stadium, however next season at Carver
Hawkeye Arena will be a real test if the Murray Twins
are gone.

Keegan is almost assuredly gone.

Kris will have the advantage of not having JBo and Connor eat up a bunch of unmerited minutes. Unfortunately, last year’s theme carries over into this season: unmerited favoritism, mismanagement of rotations, and inconsistent to mediocre to bad defense. All leading to greater apathy in the fan base.

It’ll be interesting to look back five years from now on the last couple seasons, after the departures of Garza, Weezy, and the Murray twins, and see with the benefit of hindsight just how much talent was squandered because of nepotism and JBo. It’s going to be a bitter pill for a lot of fans to swallow.

 

[TheTruthTheWholeTruth]

Once again, Davis had an absolutely loaded roster his first 3 years. Once those players left, Iowa finished in the top 25 3/10 years. Taking away Fran’s first 3 years Iowa has finished Top 25 3/8 years. These arguments are useless unless you can admit that the first 3 years of Fran’s and Davis’ were polar opposites.

As others have mentioned, outside of the Lickliter years, stuck in?? I’m not sure if mediocrity is quite the word but it’s pretty close. Average for sure. And it’s been that way now for around 35 years under 4 different head coaches. I don’t know what the answer is.

 

[Herky T Hawk]

When considering that we’ve lost our history as a good program over the last several decades and that the Big Ten has a few schools that weren’t challengers prior to the ‘90s but are now(Wisconsin, Maryland) plus a few schools that are trying hard to get better but haven’t gotten over the hump yet(NW, Rutgers, Minny), I don’t think we should be expected to have the success that we had prior to 1990.

I would expect

• An NCAA invite 3 out of 5 years. And an NIT caliber team the other two, not a horrible rebuild team those years.
• A top half of conference finish 3 out of every five years.
• A conference champion challenger every five years.
• A top 25 team, in the final poll, once or twice every five years.
• Sweet Sixteen should be able to happen at least once or twice a decade.

When thinking about the Big Ten pecking order, over a 10 year span we likely won’t finish above Purdue, MSU, Michigan, OSU, Indiana, and Illinois. They have too many resources and better recruiting footprints than we have. Then add in Wisconsin who has momentum over us right now and has decently maintained that so far after Bo Ryan retired. Add that Minnesota and Maryland have much better recruiting footprints than us and are underachieving but could move up with the right coach.

Considering all of that I don’t think we should be expecting to challenge for a conference title every season. The deck is stacked hard against us right now and it will take a great coach that can recruit and work the portal to move us up in the pecking order. I like Fran a lot, but he’s not that coach. He’s horrible at the portal, and is an average recruiter pulling in mostly 3 stars with an occasional 4 star. He’s shown his ceiling with us and demonstrated several tendencies in recruiting, in game coaching decisions, and minutes distribution that lead to that limit.

 

[TheTruthTheWholeTruth]

I’m going to answer my own question. The problem has been attracting top notch guards. Winning or losing in the NCAA tournament begins and ends with guard play. Fran does a great job of recruiting bigs. His recruitment of guards has been very lackluster, at best.

It’s like Iowa football. KF turns out so many quality NFL players yet the record doesn’t always reflect that reality. Why? Because very few come from the skill positions on the offensive side of the ball.

 

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

Default is 0.500 in B1G...ie. completely average---any average coach can do that at Iowa over the long term. Davis, Alford, Fran have done it over 37 years. LIckliter was the outlier and that was only 3 years---fired and we moved on and he never got another job, so issue was clearly with Lickliter himself. Just like iowas success under Lute was due to superior coaching and 87 success for DAvis was setup by superior recruiting by Raveling.

Barta is the big problem....he clearly is inept and doesn't put any expectations on the coaching staffs.....so that is why nepotism and lawsuits are rampant.

I personally don't think Fran got enough out of last year's team. Fran did accomplish his goal of convincing a large part of the Fan base that CMAC was the best option....meanwhile Keegan was a backup and Kris never got any playing tiem. This year, I don't see a large talent difference between Wisconsin competing for B1G title and Iowa in 9th place.

A good CEO of sports would ask more out of Fran and it he improves great, and if not, let him know it is time
for him to move on. Fran's contract should not be renewed unless he wins a B1G tilte, or a BTT, or a sweet16 game....he's done none fo those things so far. The pressure of actual expectations might drive him
to quit running Iowa program as his own fiefdom.

Insisting on playing your 6’5 son at the 4–who should be riding the pine at Kirkwood—over a 6’9 future lottery pick is insane. The fact there are still Iowa fans—not related to or chummy with the McCaffreys—still defending it is perhaps even more insane.

That single act of egregious nepotism ended it for me last year with Fran. I was even somewhat optimistic going into this season despite being done with Fran, but the fact Jordan Bohannon still gets 25 mpg and his no-talent son—shooting 16% from 3—is logging 15 mpg is all the evidence I need that Fran doesn’t give a f#ck and is going to play his favorites regardless.

 

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

Once again, Davis had an absolutely loaded roster his first 3 years. Once those players left, Iowa finished in the top 25 3/10 years. Taking away Fran’s first 3 years Iowa has finished Top 25 3/8 years. These arguments are useless unless you can admit that the first 3 years of Fran’s and Davis’ were polar opposites.

As others have mentioned, outside of the Lickliter years, stuck in?? I’m not sure if mediocrity is quite the word but it’s pretty close. Average for sure. And it’s been that way now for around 35 years under 4 different head coaches. I don’t know what the answer is.

Your first paragraph is fair. However, I take into consideration the impact Chris Street’s tragic passing had on the Iowa program in that ‘93-‘95 range of the Davis era. The ‘92-‘93 Hawkeyes were a legitimate top ten team, and had they made some noise in the ‘93 tournament, who knows how that would have impacted recruiting. Not to mention Street would have been a senior on that mediocre ‘93-‘94 team.

The greater point was not to stack the deck in favor of Davis but to point out aiming to be in the top 25 fifty percent of the time, or something close to it, isn’t that crazy of a goal.

 

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

The population of Iowa is aging. The Iowa fan base is aging. Iowa coaches are aging. Failing to do anything of merit in football and basketball.
Not looking to good for support in the future. Mirroring Northwestern for fan support.

You’ve got to be kidding about football.

 

[TheTruthTheWholeTruth]

Your first paragraph is fair. However, I take into consideration the impact Chris Street’s tragic passing had on the Iowa program in that ‘93-‘95 range of the Davis era. The ‘92-‘93 Hawkeyes were a legitimate top ten team, and had they made some noise in the ‘93 tournament, who knows how that would have impacted recruiting. Not to mention Street would have been a senior on that mediocre ‘93-‘94 team.

The greater point was not to stack the deck in favor of Davis but to point out aiming to be in the top 25 fifty percent of the time, or something close to it, isn’t that crazy of a goal.

Davis had some terrible breaks. The Street tragedy tops the list. Ray Thompson being declared ineligible, Settles injuries, Rodell Davis’ injury, Minnesota being cheating bastards, etc etc.

That said, imagine message boards being around back then. Right or wrong, much of the criticisms you’re seeing now, minus the nepotism, would have being the prevailing sentiment then as well.

 

[kceasthawk]

Default is 0.500 in B1G...ie. completely average---any average coach can do that at Iowa over the long term. Davis, Alford, Fran have done it over 37 years. LIckliter was the outlier and that was only 3 years---fired and we moved on and he never got another job, so issue was clearly with Lickliter himself. Just like iowas success under Lute was due to superior coaching and 87 success for DAvis was setup by superior recruiting by Raveling.

Barta is the big problem....he clearly is inept and doesn't put any expectations on the coaching staffs.....so that is why nepotism and lawsuits are rampant.

I personally don't think Fran got enough out of last year's team. Fran did accomplish his goal of convincing a large part of the Fan base that CMAC was the best option....meanwhile Keegan was a backup and Kris never got any playing tiem. This year, I don't see a large talent difference between Wisconsin competing for B1G title and Iowa in 9th place.

A good CEO of sports would ask more out of Fran and it he improves great, and if not, let him know it is time
for him to move on. Fran's contract should not be renewed unless he wins a B1G tilte, or a BTT, or a sweet16 game....he's done none fo those things so far. The pressure of actual expectations might drive him
to quit running Iowa program as his own fiefdom.

Just to clarify, Lick in fact did get another HC job after Iowa at Marion University and then as an assistant at Evansville....

 

[kceasthawk]

You’ve got to be kidding about football.

Evidently being ranked #2 at one point after being then #4 PSU in one of the most watched games in college football last season, is "nothing of merit"...

 

[onlyTheObvious]

Sweet 16 by 5th year or there is the door.

At power 5 school if you can’t do that you don’t deserve to keep collecting big money. Lots of people can achieve nothing.

 

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

Davis had some terrible breaks. The Street tragedy tops the list. Ray Thompson being declared ineligible, Settles injuries, Rodell Davis’ injury, Minnesota being cheating bastards, etc etc.

That said, imagine message boards being around back then. Right or wrong, much of the criticisms you’re seeing now, minus the nepotism, would have being the prevailing sentiment then as well.

I agree. And I honestly try to be as fair and objective as possible while still being a fan. I don’t believe Fran is a bad coach. I actually think he’s slightly above average. While he’s obviously a fantastic teacher of offense and gets the most out of the talent he does land, the same issues of poor defense and mediocre athleticism plague nearly every team he’s put on the floor. All of that said, it was the nepotism that was the proverbial straw for me.

Your point about guard play has without question held Fran’s teams back. You get a Ronnie Lester or BJ Armstrong or Andre Woolridge or Jeff Horner on one of his more talented teams, and suddenly you’re talking about a viable conference championship threat and Final Four contender. It’s really been a shame Fran has never been able to land a high-profile point guard sometime between 2012-2017. We would likely be having a much different conversation now in which the old-timers would be comparing and contrasting Fran and Lute.

 

[TheTruthTheWholeTruth]

Using that criteria, let’s say goodbye to the following coaches.

Coach K
John Beilein at Michigan
Gene Keady
Lou Henson

Silly criteria imo

 

[Suterman]

Just to clarify, Lick in fact did get another HC job after Iowa at Marion University and then as an assistant at Evansville....

Lick is the head coach at Evansville. They are currently 5-16.

 

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

Sweet 16 by 5th year or there is the door.

At power 5 school if you can’t do that you don’t deserve to keep collecting big money. Lots of people can achieve nothing.

In the landscape of today’s college basketball, with the portal now ostensibly being free agency, you can turn a program around in one season. See Iowa State.

So, yeah, while you’re obviously going to have mediocre seasons for a myriad of reasons, there’s no excuse to have a P5 program with the support and resources Iowa does to continue to be stuck in just above average.

 

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

Using that criteria, let’s say goodbye to the following coaches.

Coach K
John Beilein at Michigan
Gene Keady
Lou Henson

Silly criteria imo

The criteria in the OP???

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Apathy is when Hawkeye fans stop buying tickets
to football and basketball games. It will not happen
at Kinnick Stadium, however next season at Carver
Hawkeye Arena will be a real test if the Murray Twins
are gone.

Where's Kris going?............Transfer portal?

 

[blhawk]

Evidently being ranked #2 at one point after being then #4 PSU in one of the most watched games in college football last season, is "nothing of merit"...

That #4 ranking for a team that finished unranked like every other team Iowa played in 21 was "nothing of merit". It did trick us into thinking Iowa was a top ten team for another week though. So there's that I guess, solid point

 

[CookyMonster]

Op how much do you donate a year?

 

[SDHawkDoc]

While I'd absolutely like to see them get a conference title, it's the NCAA tourney performance that's number one on my list. Fran's Iowa teams have been unimpressive in that regard during his entire tenure at Iowa. And that's being nice about it.

 

[blhawk]

No. You‘re totally unreasonable. We’re just Iowa. Can’t recruit here. Can’t get a good coach. Mediocrity is the best we can ever hope for, and is good enough. Remember what happened when we ran Tom Davis out of town? If Fran leaves, Iowa will immediately fall to Lick-level, and stay there forever. Be careful what you wish for.

I think that covers it.

Yeah, we should just be thankful they let a school from a state like Iowa field a team. Good synopsis

 

[Bee93]

I think what’s important right now is not the comparison of Fran to Davis, or Alford, or Lickliter. The question is has Fran done enough to continue as is? Is it wrong to want the program to exceed where it’s been for the last 40 years?

 

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

Op how much do you donate a year?

Lol. STFU.

You are cooky.