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Arguing is pointless (Great article)

BrianNole777

HR All-American
Jan 27, 2023
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I was going to post this in the @What Would Jesus Do? thread but didn't want to clog it up more.

I read this article in 2021. It's life changing when you realize how arguing doesn't work to change minds usually.

CSB.

@THE_DEVIL @GlenHawk @jawatkins

 
but it’s fun

Golden Retriever Friends GIF
 
I was going to post this in the @What Would Jesus Do? thread but didn't want to clog it up more.

I read this article in 2021. It's life changing when you realize how arguing doesn't work to change minds usually.

CSB.

@THE_DEVIL @GlenHawk @jawatkins

That was NOT a "great article"...

LOL... how'd I do?
 
A constructive argument is when you focus on the issues.

A destructive argument is when you attack the other person.

Some family arguments between husband and wife can become
destructive when you avoid the issues being discussed and
start attacking the personhood of your spouse.
 
A constructive argument is when you focus on the issues.

A destructive argument is when you attack the other person.

Some family arguments between husband and wife can become
destructive when you avoid the issues being discussed and
start attacking the personhood of your spouse.
If your spouse's personhood is is doubt, that means they can be aborted, right?

So much better than a divorce.
 
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I was going to post this in the What Would Jesus Do? thread but didn't want to clog it up more.

I read this article in 2021. It's life changing when you realize how arguing doesn't work to change minds usually.

CSB.



So . . . I clicked the link. Saw this.

Arguing Is Pointless​


February 08, 2011​
It was lunchtime and the seven of us — two kids and five adults — would be in the car for the next three hours as we drove from New York City to upstate Connecticut for the weekend.​

Maybe it would be a great article if it was accessible. Anybody want to cut and paste it?
 
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So what’s the alternative to arguing? Should people eschew arguments in favor of outright coercion, violent or otherwise? If everyone stopped arguing, wouldn’t this inevitably benefit the status quo?

Arguing is unpleasant and exhausting, but it’s like democracy: the worst type of government, except for all the others.
 
So . . . I clicked the link. Saw this.

Arguing Is Pointless​


February 08, 2011​
It was lunchtime and the seven of us — two kids and five adults — would be in the car for the next three hours as we drove from New York City to upstate Connecticut for the weekend.​

Maybe it would be a great article if it was accessible. Anybody want to cut and paste it?

Does this help? I think the paywall is new:



It was lunchtime and the seven of us — two kids and five adults — would be in the car for the next three hours as we drove from New York City to upstate Connecticut for the weekend.

We decided to get some takeout at a place on the corner of 88th and Broadway. I pulled along the curb and ran in to get everyone’s orders.
In no time, Isabelle, my eight year old, came running in the restaurant.

“Daddy! Come quick! The police are giving you a ticket!”
I ran outside.
“Wait, don’t write the ticket, I’ll move it right away,” I offered.
“Too late,” she said.
“Come on! I was in there for three minutes. Give me a break.”
“You’re parked in front of a bus stop.” She motioned halfway down the block.
“All the way down there?” I protested.
She said nothing.
“You can’t be serious!” I flapped my arms.
“Once I start writing the ticket, I can’t stop.” She handed me the ticket.
“But you didn’t even ask us to move! Why didn’t you ask us to move?” I continued to argue as she walked away.


And that’s when it hit me: arguing was a waste of my time.
Not just in that situation with that police officer. I’m talking about arguing with anyone, anywhere, any time. It’s a guaranteed losing move.


Think about it. You and someone have an opposing view and you argue. You pretend to listen to what she’s saying but what you’re really doing is thinking about the weakness in her argument so you can disprove it. Or perhaps, if she’s debunked a previous point, you’re thinking of new counter-arguments. Or, maybe, you’ve made it personal: it’s not just her argument that’s the problem. It’s her. And everyone who agrees with her.


In some rare cases, you might think the argument has merit. What then? Do you change your mind? Probably not. Instead, you make a mental note that you need to investigate the issue more to uncover the right argument to prove the person wrong.
When I think back to just about every argument I’ve ever participated in — political arguments, religious arguments, arguments with Eleanor or with my children or my parents or my employees, arguments about the news or about a business idea or about an article or a way of doing something — in the end, each person leaves the argument feeling, in many cases more strongly than before, that he or she was right to begin with.


How likely is it that you will change your position in the middle of fighting for it? Or accept someone else’s perspective when they’re trying to hit you over the head with it?
Arguing achieves a predictable outcome: it solidifies each person’s stance. Which, of course, is the exact opposite of what you’re trying to achieve with the argument in the first place. It also wastes time and deteriorates relationships.


There’s only one solution: stop arguing.
Resist the temptation to start an argument in the first place. If you feel strongly about something in the moment, that’s probably a good sign that you need time to think before trying to communicate it.


If someone tries to draw you into an argument? Don’t take the bait. Change the subject or politely let the person know you don’t want to engage in a discussion about it.


And if it’s too late? If you’re in the middle of an argument and realize it’s going nowhere? Then you have no choice but to pull out your surprise weapon. The strongest possible defense, guaranteed to overcome any argument:


Listening.
Simply acknowledge the other and what he’s saying without any intention of refuting his position. If you’re interested, you can ask questions — not to prove him wrong — but to better understand him.


Because listening has the opposite effect of arguing. Arguing closes people down. Listening slows them down. And then it opens them up. When someone feels heard, he relaxes. He feels generous. And he becomes more interested in hearing you.


That’s when you have a shot of doing the impossible: changing that person’s mind. And maybe your own. Because listening, not arguing, is the best way to shift a perspective.
Then, when you want to leave the conversation, say something like,”Thanks for that perspective.” Or “I’ll have to think about that,” and walk away or change the subject.
I’m not saying you should let someone bully you. This weekend I was in a long line and someone cut in front of me. I told him it wasn’t okay and he started yelling, telling me — and the people around me — that he was there all the time, which was clearly not true. I began to argue with him which, of course, proved useless and only escalated the fight.


Eventually a woman in the line simply drew a boundary. She said, “No, it’s not okay to simply walk in here when the rest of us are waiting” and she stepped forward and ignored the bully. We all followed her lead and, eventually, he went to the back of the line.

Arguments: 0. Boundaries: 1.
When I went online to pay the parking fine, I tried to dispute the ticket. Before arguing my case though, a screen popped up offering me a deal: pay the penalty with a 25% discount, or argue and, if I lose, pay the entire fine. I thought I had a good case so I argued and, a few weeks later, lost the case.
Next time, I’m taking the deal.



Peter Bregman is the CEO of Bregman Partners, an executive coaching company that helps successful people become exceptional leaders and stellar human beings. Best-selling author of 18 Minutes, and Leading with Emotional Courage, his most recent book is You Can Change Other People. To identify your leadership gap, take Peter’s free assessment.
 
When I went online to pay the parking fine, I tried to dispute the ticket. Before arguing my case though, a screen popped up offering me a deal: pay the penalty with a 25% discount, or argue and, if I lose, pay the entire fine. I thought I had a good case so I argued and, a few weeks later, lost the case.
Next time, I’m taking the deal.
Many years ago I used to ride a motorcycle to my job at NIH. There were always some small parking spots in the underground garage.

One day, after work, I came down to find a ticket on my bike. The white lines marking the spot I was in had been blacked over. A "No Parking" sign had been attached to the wall.

Needless to say, I decided to challenge it.

Waiting my turn in Magistrate's court, the lady ahead of me pled her case. She had parked where she thought it was legal but when she came back from whatever she was doing, she had a ticket. In the interim, tree trimmers had come by, done their work, and uncovered a previously unseen "No Parking" sign. She even had pictures.

The Magistrate blew off her explanation and pics and doubled the fine for wasting the court's time.

My name was called and I told the judge I was had planned to argue my case but I'd rather just pay the fine, thank you very much.

He cut my fine in half.

Not justice, but sort of amusing.
 
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Here's an interesting related video.

Is talking about politics and social issues a waste of time?

How often does it change other people's minds? (Hint: hardly ever.)

 
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