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At what age did you no longer fear death?

No...you really didn't. You threw in a qualifier to provide cover. I never said "atheist". I never said they don't want to go to Heaven. You invented that whole thing to avoid the question. People can reject the idea of a three-headed god, the necessity of getting dribbled with water, even the idea that Jesus was divine...and still WANT to go to Heaven. I'm not going to ask again because you've made it abundantly clear that you don't wish to disclose your personal views. Perfectly ok but you should just say so.

I gave you my belief more than once. It wasn't a "qualifier to provide cover." That doesn't make sense.

It's not up to me who gets saved or not in your scenario. Like I stated, it's a mystery. I don't know.

You don't have to like that answer but there it is.
 
I gave you my belief more than once. It wasn't a "qualifier to provide cover." That doesn't make sense.

It's not up to me who gets saved or not in your scenario. Like I stated, it's a mystery. I don't know.

You don't have to like that answer but there it is.
Just stop. Now you're coming back with the "It's not up to me" dodge. NOBODY said it was. Your CHURCH makes the rules...the only question is whether or not you believe them. It would appear that either you don't and refuse to say so or you do and are too embarrassed to confess it.

One more chance - your next-door neighbor...well versed in the ways of your religion...chooses another path. Your neighbor leads an exemplary life of service to humanity...hailed as a saint for their activities. But they don't believe in a Holy Trinity. They don't believe in baptism. They don't believe Jesus was divine. They DO acknowledge a great mystery after death and believe they are worthy of whatever reward the afterlife has to offer.

Your religion states unequivocally that this individual doesn't go to Heaven. Do you or do you not agree with the official stance of your religion?

Popcorn time.
 
I'm 60. I've never feared death but I came to the realization that is inevitable and have accepted it, and just within the last year.

I didn't wade through 3 pages but I will say the manner in which I go is probably more worrisome than the age.
 
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Just stop. Now you're coming back with the "It's not up to me" dodge. NOBODY said it was. Your CHURCH makes the rules...the only question is whether or not you believe them. It would appear that either you don't and refuse to say so or you do and are too embarrassed to confess it.

One more chance - your next-door neighbor...well versed in the ways of your religion...chooses another path. Your neighbor leads an exemplary life of service to humanity...hailed as a saint for their activities. But they don't believe in a Holy Trinity. They don't believe in baptism. They don't believe Jesus was divine. They DO acknowledge a great mystery after death and believe they are worthy of whatever reward the afterlife has to offer.

Your religion states unequivocally that this individual doesn't go to Heaven. Do you or do you not agree with the official stance of your religion?

Popcorn time.

As I already explained, it depends.

In your scenario, my neighbor could be invincibly ignorant. Perhaps they weren't taught the truths of the faith correctly. Perhaps they have an incorrect view of Jesus's divinity and baptism? Maybe they had really bad catechesis?

Now, if my neighbor KNOWS the truth and CHOOSES to reject it, they can't be saved.

BUT, they could still be saved, if they were invincibly ignorant. That's true.

The Catholic Church has never definitely taught that any one individual is in Hell.

That's all up to God.

Make sense?
 
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I didn't ask if it was up to you...I asked what you believe. Your religion says no number of selfless deeds nor quality of goodness gets you into Heaven. You have to believe a certain creed. You must believe in the Holy Trinity. You must be baptized. Do YOU believe that or not?

Feel free to dodge it again - I realize this can be uncomfortable to contemplate.
I assume you were raised Christian in a church family. At some point did you leave the faith? Did you raise your kids as Christians?
 
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I am 71. I don’t fear death but it has been upsetting to me when people my age or younger that I knew have passed on.
After you are gone the world just moves on without you. I have a good chance of living a long time yet barring an accident. I have ancestors that lived past 100 and my Mom is 93. Dad passed at 88.

I really want my descendants to have a comfortable life.
 
I gave my life to Christ in my late 20’s and that’s when I stopped fearing death. Like other have stated, I do fear a painful death, but not death itself.

I no longer worry about leaving my wife & kids behind because my wife is a believer and my kids know Christ. When I started looking at my kids as God’s children and not necessarily my own - everything changed for the better. I trust they’ll be just fine and we will see each other again. The peace I have knowing that makes me sleep very well at night.

I also throttled down at work knowing my worth is not in my accomplishments, but being redeemed by Christ and making others always feel welcome and valued when I’m around them. That created a sense of freedom I know a lot of other men don’t have.

I also took good care of OP’s Mom and that makes me sleep peacefully at night (except when I’m hitting that of course). CSB
 
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As I already explained, it depends.

In your scenario, my neighbor could be invincibly ignorant. Perhaps they weren't taught the truths of the faith correctly. Perhaps they have an incorrect view of Jesus's divinity and baptism? Maybe they had really bad catechesis?

Now, if my neighbor KNOWS the truth and CHOOSES to reject it, they can't be saved.

BUT, they could still be saved, if they were invincibly ignorant. That's true.

The Catholic Church has never definitely taught that any one individual is in Hell.

That's all up to God.

Make sense?
LOL...how do you know YOU were taught correctly?

Now, if my neighbor KNOWS the truth and CHOOSES to reject it, they can't be saved.

And that's what it boils down to finally. Phew! See? That wasn't hard at all. If they know YOUR truth and refuse to believe it because they find it preposterous, they go to hell no matter how exemplary their life has been. You could have just said so at the beginning.
 
LOL...how do you know YOU were taught correctly?

Now, if my neighbor KNOWS the truth and CHOOSES to reject it, they can't be saved.

And that's what it boils down to finally. Phew! See? That wasn't hard at all. If they know YOUR truth and refuse to believe it because they find it preposterous, they go to hell no matter how exemplary their life has been. You could have just said so at the beginning.

I don't think I was taught correctly or maybe I wasn't paying attention. I was an agnostic/atheists for 15 years. 😆

There's nuance with invincible ignorance. It's not black/white. As I stated, Hell is a choice people make.

Now, what do YOU think happens after death?
 
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I was listening to a song by the Red Clay Strays (solid band at the crux of rock/country/blues with a lead singer akin to Elvis)… and he was singing about how he doesn’t care if he dies.

I started thinking about it, and realized that I would be completely at peace with it. That’s a recent development for me. I’m in my mid-40s.

I’m certainly not saying that I want to die, but I’m no longer terrified of it, and wouldn’t feel like I’m being robbed of a good/full life.
I'm 55 and it scares the shit out of me. I hate to think about how little time I have left.
 
Ah. The beauty of being an atheist is not worrying about shit like that.

Everyone should fear Hell.

IMO.

 
I recently took a long memory test and passed it with flying colors. Whatever they threw at me I could easily respond “Man, Woman, Person, Camera.” Many people are saying I broke the record for my age group. Could have been a doctor or scientist, I have knack for both.
 
the fast and the furious GIF

I live my life a quarter mile at a time. We can be quarter mile bros!
Smoked the tires like that AND and a wheel stand? Hollywood magic!
 
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I don't think I was taught correctly or maybe I wasn't paying attention. I was an agnostic/atheists for 15 years. 😆

There's nuance with invincible ignorance. It's not black/white. As I stated, Hell is a choice people make.

Now, what do YOU think happens after death?
I have no f'n idea but I'm guessing there's no gate with a saint standing there ticking off the chosen people. So I try to have a positive impact on the people around me - not because I want some reward after I die or fear eternal damnation from a narcissistic psychotic deity but because I want to make a difference in the lives of people here. That's called having purpose.
 
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I have no f'n idea but I'm guessing there's no gate with a saint standing there ticking off the chosen people. So I try to have a positive impact on the people around me - not because I want some reward after I die or fear eternal damnation from a narcissistic psychotic deity but because I want to make a difference in the lives of people here. That's called having purpose.

Having a worldy purpose is great but that will end after you stroke out in a couple years/decades.
 
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Having a worldy purpose is great but that will end after you stroke out in a couple years/decades.
Yeah…and if there is a reward for a life well lived I’ll have earned it. And if there isn’t I’ll never know. But I’ll spend my time here doing good because it’s the right thing to do…not because of what comes next.
 
Yeah…and if there is a reward for a life well lived I’ll have earned it. And if there isn’t I’ll never know. But I’ll spend my time here doing good because it’s the right thing to do…not because of what comes next.

Well, you gotta do what you think is right.
 
Never. I’m petrified.


Wish I wasn’t.

Interesting ...you live life how you want to...your reaction was not what I would have expected.

I personally don't think about it...think at 13 or so it hit me I would die one die...only thing that worries me now is that there is some rumor going around that in heaven there is no beer.
 
Well, you gotta do what you think is right.
The whole point of this...going all the way back to your OP...is that you said it was "pointless" to do the right thing if there was no reward after death. Remember that? You claimed that everything depended on that. So you doing what you believe is "right" isn't predicated on it being right for the people around you...it's a calculation based on what you think will get you that reward. That kind of thinking can give you all kinds of results - including suicide bombers counting on 72 virgins in the afterlife.

And that brings us full circle - that's just sad.
 
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I assume you were raised Christian in a church family. At some point did you leave the faith? Did you raise your kids as Christians?
Raised a Quaker as were my kids. Definitely not the same as being raised a "Christian". There's no creed. No hoops. No hierarchy telling me what their truth is. No single divinely inspired book from which all knowledge flows.

As I have stated many times, my relationship with God is deeply personal and wouldn't mean much to anyone else. I don't expect anyone to share my views and I sure as hell wouldn't impose them on anyone else. I don't generally condemn the views of others until hypocrisy rears its ugly head. I've got no use for religions that exalt murderers. I've got no use for religions that protect pedophiles. I don't care for religions that claim life is "pointless" absent some reward for believing one particular way and eternal damnation if you choose to believe another way.

I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know. Jefferson said that. It's actually true of everyone, most just choose to pretend otherwise.
 
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The whole point of this...going all the way back to your OP...is that you said it was "pointless" to do the right thing if there was no reward after death. Remember that? You claimed that everything depended on that. So you doing what you believe is "right" isn't predicated on it being right for the people around you...it's a calculation based on what you think will get you that reward. That kind of thinking can give you all kinds of results - including suicide bombers counting on 72 virgins in the afterlife.

And that brings us full circle - that's just sad.

I do believe life is ultimately pointless if everything just turns to dust. Lots of philosophers agreed: Camus, Schopenhauer and Cioran are three of them.

It doesn't have anything to do with a "reward" necessarily. If everyone just turns to dust, there's no justice. As an example, Hitler is just dead like his victims. No justice in the end for either side.

I'm sure you disagree and that's fine. You're free to have your own beliefs.
 
I do believe life is ultimately pointless if everything just turns to dust. Lots of philosophers agreed: Camus, Schopenhauer and Cioran are three of them.

It doesn't have anything to do with a "reward" necessarily. If everyone just turns to dust, there's no justice. As an example, Hitler is just dead like his victims. No justice in the end for either side.

I'm sure you disagree and that's fine. You're free to have your own beliefs.
I've never said there's no existence after death. I clearly said I have no idea...nor do you. I take issue with your claim that it's the only thing that makes this life meaningful - that idea is sad - and I take serious issue with your participation criteria.
 
I've never said there's no existence after death. I clearly said I have no idea...nor do you. I take issue with your claim that it's the only thing that makes this life meaningful - that idea is sad - and I take serious issue with your participation criteria.

I never claimed life after death is the "only" thing that makes life meaningful.

If there's no life after death, there can be temporary meaning but if it all ends when we turn into dust, life is ultimately pointless.

You're free to believe that idea is "sad."

There are lots of philosophers that agree with my view, both atheist and theist.
 
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I never claimed life after death is the "only" thing that makes life meaningful.

If there's no life after death, there can be temporary meaning but it all ends when we turn into dust, so life is ultimately pointless.

You're free to believe that's "sad."

There are lots of philosophers that disagree with you.
I think someone misunderstood me earlier...I'm loving life so the thought of it being done scares the crap out of me. There's more I want to see and do.
 
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I never claimed life after death is the "only" thing that makes life meaningful.
You said:
Everything depends on life after death
So...yes...you did claim that.

If there's no life after death, there can be temporary meaning but if it all ends when we turn into dust, life is ultimately pointless.
And that's, of course, complete BS. Edward Jenner developed the first vaccine for smallpox. It's been refined by others over hundreds of years and has saved countless lives. Smallpox was eradicated from the human population. And you want to tell me that's meaningless today because he's long dead? How could it POSSIBLY be considered pointless under ANY scenario? It's fascinating to watch the great and small achievements of people and their impacts on others dismissed as if they only matter if their "spirits" transcend this life.
 
You said:

So...yes...you did claim that.


And that's, of course, complete BS. Edward Jenner developed the first vaccine for smallpox. It's been refined by others over hundreds of years and has saved countless lives. Smallpox was eradicated from the human population. And you want to tell me that's meaningless today because he's long dead? How could it POSSIBLY be considered pointless under ANY scenario? It's fascinating to watch the great and small achievements of people and their impacts on others dismissed as if they only matter if their "spirits" transcend this life.


Ultimate meaning is what we were discussing.

Edward Jenner is a rare example of a person that helps future generations.

Most of us will be long forgotten in a generation or two...
 
Ultimate meaning is what we were discussing.

Edward Jenner is a rare example of a person that helps future generations.

Most of us will be long forgotten in a generation or two...
Being forgotten and having an impact aren't the same thing. Regardless, Jenner's life has meaning and wasn't pointless. Point made. Michaelangelo (the artist, not the turtle)? Plato? Rosa Parks? How about Ryan White? Most today have no idea who he was but he changed the world in a big way and the impact is still felt even if he's forgotten.
 
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