B10 player/coach of year awards - irrelevant and wrong…

[DavidGraeberBullSheetJobs]

….if awarded before the season ends.

And the B10 got it wrong this year with Gard and Davis.

Why award coach and player of the year for B10 even before the B10 tournament? Much less NCAAs?

At least Fran and Keegan, after winning the BTT in record setting fashion, end up looking better than Gard and Davis.

because they were and are.

What happens in NCAA remains to be seen but if the conference actually values the tourney, give the damn awards AFTER it so we have all the relevant data in to make a good decision.

 

[DavidGraeberBullSheetJobs]

Had to look this up, but at least NPOY gets it right by awarding in April. After NCAA championship game done.

Key Dates | Naismith Awards

naismithtrophy.com

The Big Ten does itself and its players and coaches no service by awarding them stuff so prematurely. If they gave the awards after the conference tournament and NCAA tournament, they would build a lot more momentum towards national player of the year and other awards.

Who can take the awards seriously if they don’t even include the conference tournament?

 

[ICWestfan]

It's a regular season award.

 

[LaQuintaHawkeye]

It's a regular season award.

Most years it should just be called “Whichever team wins the conference title belongs the spoils” award. This one in particular.

 

[fivecardstud14]

It's a regular season award.

Correct

 

[Rifler]

Badgers definitely over performed this season as did the Hawkeyes,.. Gard and Davis deserve the awards..

 

[Hawk_4shur]

Many awards in different sports are done this way.

 

[jhawkinaz]

Badgers definitely over performed this season as did the Hawkeyes,.. Gard and Davis deserve the awards..

Both great players, can make a good argument either way.

do you think that Garza winning it last year hurt Murray’s chances this year? Even if it wasn’t said out loud, I wonder if some voters had that thought, that Iowa isn’t the type of team to have 2 different players win it back to back?

I think KM was the best player in the conference, but of course I watched him much more.

 

[David1979]

I don't have a problem with either of them getting it. I think it was a tossup between Cockburn, Davis and Murray. And Gard won the league with a team that wasn't supposed to.

 

[DavidGraeberBullSheetJobs]

It's a regular season award.

I know they define the award as a regular season award, but part of what I’m arguing is that it does the conference no good because, as we might end up seeing in the NCAA tournament, if Keegan out performs Davis, but Davis has one Big Ten player of the year, there’s not as much momentum behind Keegan for national player of the year, and the conference suffers unnecessarily and doesn’t get the exposure and respect it could have otherwise.

also, the award doesn’t say “Big Ten regular season player of the year“. It’s an award that represents which player in the conference is the best, and if the conference decides to have an a tournament to in large part determine which team is the best, then give the award after the tournament. And then empower that player or that coach to go on to win bigger awards.

 

[David1979]

I know they define the award as a regular season award, but part of what I’m arguing is that it does the conference no good because, as we might end up seeing in the NCAA tournament, if Keegan out performs Davis, but Davis has one Big Ten player of the year, there’s not as much momentum behind Keegan for national player of the year, and the conference suffers unnecessarily and doesn’t get the exposure and respect it could have otherwise.

also, the award doesn’t say “Big Ten regular season player of the year“. It’s an award that represents which player in the conference is the best, and if the conference decides to have an a tournament to in large part determine which team is the best, then give the award after the tournament. And then empower that player or that coach to go on to win bigger awards.

That is a weird take.

 

[DavidGraeberBullSheetJobs]

I don't have a problem with either of them getting it. I think it was a tossup between Cockburn, Davis and Murray. And Gard won the league with a team that wasn't supposed to.

It was a tossup at the end of the regular season, but after Keegan‘s performance in the tournament, he is clearly the best player in the league. And most Talking Heads say the same thing after watching him break records throughout the tournament. That’s my point. And you can make a similar argument for Fran. He lost four players who, when not hurt, were starters or sixth man. Now considering the results of the tournament, you could probably make an argument that Frans accomplishment was greater.

And Fran took over a team that was worst in the Big Ten, cupboards incredibly bare, while Gard took over a talent rich team that had just played in a national championship game.

 

[ICWestfan]

I know they define the award as a regular season award, but part of what I’m arguing is that it does the conference no good because, as we might end up seeing in the NCAA tournament, if Keegan out performs Davis, but Davis has one Big Ten player of the year, there’s not as much momentum behind Keegan for national player of the year, and the conference suffers unnecessarily and doesn’t get the exposure and respect it could have otherwise.

also, the award doesn’t say “Big Ten regular season player of the year“. It’s an award that represents which player in the conference is the best, and if the conference decides to have an a tournament to in large part determine which team is the best, then give the award after the tournament. And then empower that player or that coach to go on to win bigger awards.

I get what you're saying, but it is what it is. I'm not saying KeMu wasn't the MVP or Fran wasn't the COY, I think both were deserving, but obviously there are guidelines for these awards. Body of work during the regular season, correct? Also, this is an award voted on by beat writers only, no coaches? Lastly, KeMU was MOP (hate that term) in BTT, which is an award in and of itself so there is that.

Look at it from a gambling aspect- If I laid money on Davis to be the BIG MVP, I sure as hell don't want tourney games taken into consideration. It's that way across all sports- Reg season only.

 

[FWIW4922463]

Look at it from a gambling aspect

Wow. Really? That's part of your argument?

Here's my perspective on awards, in sports and everyplace else: Todd Lickliter was named the 2007 National Coach of the Year. That should tell you all you need to know. Sometimes the most deserving people get the awards; sometimes they don't. Sometimes it ain't even close.

IMHO, it was pretty clear that Keegan was the best player in the BIG this season, and probably in the nation. And after winning the BIG Tournament, it's pretty clear no one, Gard included, did a better job of coaching this season than Fran. And awards or no awards can't change those realities.

 

[DavidGraeberBullSheetJobs]

Wow. Really? That's part of your argument?

Here's my perspective on awards, in sports and everyplace else: Todd Lickliter was named the 2007 National Coach of the Year. That should tell you all you need to know. Sometimes the most deserving people get the awards; sometimes they don't. Sometimes it ain't even close.

IMHO, it was pretty clear that Keegan was the best player in the BIG this season, and probably in the nation. And after winning the BIG Tournament, it's pretty clear no one, Gard included, did a better job of coaching this season than Fran. And awards or no awards can't change those realities.

Todd took a tiny school Butler team To the sweet 16 where they lost in overtime to eventual national champion Florida. At the time looking at his accomplishments, a lot of people didn’t think he deserved the award. He certainly didn’t handle things as well as he could have an Iowa though. In some ways it felt like he just phoned it in. Fran, though, keeps pushing and pushing and I love that passion. Awesome, actually.

 

[Michael1969]

Do they release how each panelist voted? Would love to see the breakdown. All it would take is for someone to vote Murray low to prevent him from winning it.

 

[nu2u]

Most years it should just be called “Whichever team wins the conference title belongs the spoils” award. This one in particular.

Yep, pretty much.

Andre Woolridge was one of the most dynamic players in Iowa history. He was the first player in Big Ten history to lead the league in scoring and assists. Incredibly, the POY award went to Bobby Jackson because Minnesota finished on top that year.

Wisconsin didn't finish on top but I saw this coming a mile away once the regular season ended - Davis over Kofi because Wisconsin was a bottom half pre-season pick.

 

[LaQuintaHawkeye]

This year in particular was a very close race for conference coach/player of the year. They really could’ve used the tourney to be the tiebreaker… and guess which coach/player ended up differentiating themselves from the pack?

 

[Franisdaman]

….if awarded before the season ends.

And the B10 got it wrong this year with Gard and Davis.

Why award coach and player of the year for B10 even before the B10 tournament? Much less NCAAs?

At least Fran and Keegan, after winning the BTT in record setting fashion, end up looking better than Gard and Davis.

because they were and are.

What happens in NCAA remains to be seen but if the conference actually values the tourney, give the damn awards AFTER it so we have all the relevant data in to make a good decision.

Unfortunately, and someone correct me if I am wrong, but conference awards have always been given out after the regular season concludes.

And don't all conferences hand out their awards after the regular season?

And, unfortunately, some people still vote for the best player on the best team, so some voted for Davis, some voted for Cochburn, some voted for Keegan.

Hell, what's ironic, is that Keegan still has a shot at National Player of the Year based on his performances in both the regular season and to date. Suddenly no one is talking about Johnny Davis.

Unfortunately, what follows is why Greg Gard (the guy who has Brad Davison's back) got B1G Coach of the Year.

Wisconsin was picked 10th in the preseason; they finished 2nd.

The next 2 best coaching jobs this year?

IOWA: Picked 9th, finished 5th
Rutgers: Picked 8th, finished 4th...... @MrsScrew

The worst coaching job this year (and it's not even close)?

Michigan was picked to win the B1G; they finished 8th.


Comparing the 2021-2022 Big Ten Media Preseason Poll (first-place votes in parenthesis) to Actual Results:


Actual.......Predicted
Finish........Finish

....1st.............3rd...Illinois 320 (3)

...2nd...........10th...Wisconsin 149

...3rd.............2nd...Purdue 373 (12)

...4th.............8th...Rutgers 208

...5th.............9th...Iowa 150

....6th............4th...Ohio State 316

....7th............6th...Michigan State 262

...8th.............1st.....Michigan 373 (13)

...9th.............7th...Indiana 219

...10th...........5th...Maryland 269

..11th.........T-12th...Penn State 81

..12th........T-12th...Northwestern 81

..13th...........11th...Nebraska 105

..14th...........14th....Minnesota 34

 

[David1979]

It was a tossup at the end of the regular season, but after Keegan‘s performance in the tournament, he is clearly the best player in the league. And most Talking Heads say the same thing after watching him break records throughout the tournament. That’s my point. And you can make a similar argument for Fran. He lost four players who, when not hurt, were starters or sixth man. Now considering the results of the tournament, you could probably make an argument that Frans accomplishment was greater.

And Fran took over a team that was worst in the Big Ten, cupboards incredibly bare, while Gard took over a talent rich team that had just played in a national championship game.

A regular season says more about a coach than a single elimination tournament. Just way more of a grind and less luck. It is a regular season award and always will be. Also I think you can see Iowa won the tournament not because Keegan was better than Davis but because Keegan's teammates were better than Davis's in the tournament. What does Fran taking over a team more than 10 years ago have to do with anything?

But as far as a weird take I was talking about the take that if Wisconsin is out early and Iowa makes it further it is somehow going to look bad for the Big Ten or they wouldn't get as much exposure? That just makes zero sense. They are both first team All Americans. The Big Ten has the most teams in the tournament and the most first team All Americans. I don't how much more respect they can get.

 

[notlongago]

….if awarded before the season ends.

And the B10 got it wrong this year with Gard and Davis.

Why award coach and player of the year for B10 even before the B10 tournament? Much less NCAAs?

At least Fran and Keegan, after winning the BTT in record setting fashion, end up looking better than Gard and Davis.

because they were and are.

What happens in NCAA remains to be seen but if the conference actually values the tourney, give the damn awards AFTER it so we have all the relevant data in to make a good decision.

Like pretty much every other major award, its based on regular season. And like it or not, WI was picked to finish ~10th in the league and they won it, so of course theyre going to pull in some regular season awards. Its not some egregious injustice.

 

[LaQuintaHawkeye]

Like pretty much every other major award, its based on regular season. And like it or not, WI was picked to finish ~10th in the league and they won it, so of course theyre going to pull in some regular season awards. Its not some egregious injustice.

It actually was.

Gard should’ve been auto-DQ’d due to the post-Michigan game debacle that he played a role in …not to mention getting de-pants at home on senior night by the worst team in the league with a chance to lock up the regular season title. He was not deserving…period.

Davis, at best, should’ve been Co-player of the Year with Keegan.

So yeah, it was an egregious injustice in my eyes.

Again, since the Big Ten season officially INCLUDES the BTT it should definitely factor into the Coach/Player of the Year honors.

 

[DavidGraeberBullSheetJobs]

It actually was.

Gard should’ve been auto-DQ’d due to the post-Michigan game debacle that he played a role in …not to mention getting de-pants at home on senior night by the worst team in the league with a chance to lock up the regular season title. He was not deserving…period.

Davis, at best, should’ve been Co-player of the Year with Keegan.

So yeah, it was an egregious injustice in my eyes.

Again, since the Big Ten season officially INCLUDES the BTT it should definitely factor into the Coach/Player of the Year honors.

Agree.
I lost all respect for Gard as he refused to rein in his nut punching knee kicking bush league dbag of a player all season and all these four years.
Gard did provoke Howard too. Howard reacted. In bball and in life it’s the provocateurs and cheaters who often get away with it and those who react who get caught.

 

[notlongago]

It actually was.

Gard should’ve been auto-DQ’d due to the post-Michigan game debacle that he played a role in …not to mention getting de-pants at home on senior night by the worst team in the league with a chance to lock up the regular season title. He was not deserving…period.

Davis, at best, should’ve been Co-player of the Year with Keegan.

So yeah, it was an egregious injustice in my eyes.

Again, since the Big Ten season officially INCLUDES the BTT it should definitely factor into the Coach/Player of the Year honors.

No, it wasnt. THey were picked 10th, finished 1st. Davis is an all american on the championship team. You may not like it, but thats how awards work - especially when there are multiple worthy candidates. Who's the best player on the best team and which team overachieved the most. Makes it really easy when the best team is also the most overachieving team.

 

[Ronman]

Badgers definitely over performed this season as did the Hawkeyes,.. Gard and Davis deserve the awards..

I can see Gard. He coached a team generally picked for ninth or tenth to a share of the league championship, but I would think a vast majority of fans (and a large segment of pundits) would have chosen Keegan over Davis, who himself, had a nice season. Keegan out paced him in almost every stat and if the vote were taken now, I think he would be awarded the BPOY award. Those that say these awards are for conference play need to explain to me how the BTT, where the teams are still playing against each other, is not part of conference play. Once again, if the POY award should go to a player on the conference winner, how did Luka win it twice? It should go to the most deserving player, and that is clearly Keegan.

 

[OutbackBowl2017]

Unfortunately, and someone correct me if I am wrong, but conference awards have always been given out after the regular season concludes.

And don't all conferences hand out their awards after the regular season?

And, unfortunately, some people still vote for the best player on the best team, so some voted for Davis, some voted for Cochburn, some voted for Keegan.

Hell, what's ironic, is that Keegan still has a shot at National Player of the Year based on his performances in both the regular season and to date. Suddenly no one is talking about Johnny Davis.

Unfortunately, what follows is why Greg Gard (the guy who has Brad Davison's back) got B1G Coach of the Year.

Wisconsin was picked 10th in the preseason; they finished 2nd.

The next 2 best coaching jobs this year?

IOWA: Picked 9th, finished 5th
Rutgers: Picked 8th, finished 4th...... @MrsScrew

The worst coaching job this year (and it's not even close)?

Michigan was picked to win the B1G; they finished 8th.


Comparing the 2021-2022 Big Ten Media Preseason Poll (first-place votes in parenthesis) to Actual Results:


Actual.......Predicted
Finish........Finish

....1st.............3rd...Illinois 320 (3)

...2nd...........10th...Wisconsin 149

...3rd.............2nd...Purdue 373 (12)

...4th.............8th...Rutgers 208

...5th.............9th...Iowa 150

....6th............4th...Ohio State 316

....7th............6th...Michigan State 262

...8th.............1st.....Michigan 373 (13)

...9th.............7th...Indiana 219

...10th...........5th...Maryland 269

..11th.........T-12th...Penn State 81

..12th........T-12th...Northwestern 81

..13th...........11th...Nebraska 105

..14th...........14th....Minnesota 34

Wisconsin tied for first with Illini in the league regular season title. If they beat Nebraska in their last game, they would of been solo league champs but karma hit them at the right time.

I guess Keegan and Kris will have to come back next year to win this award and Fran coach of the year while also winning the B1G regular season, possibly B1G tourney title, and what the hell, NCAA Championship.

 

[DavidGraeberBullSheetJobs]

No, it wasnt. THey were picked 10th, finished 1st. Davis is an all american on the championship team. You may not like it, but thats how awards work - especially when there are multiple worthy candidates. Who's the best player on the best team and which team overachieved the most. Makes it really easy when the best team is also the most overachieving team.

Wisconsin has had the reputation as the dirtiest team in MBB for a few years now, and not only because of Davison. It’s been scandal after scandal after mindblowingly dirty plays go viral again and again. And that’s on player(s) and mostly on enabler and coacher of such bush league “basketball”. Embarrassing for us all, but mostly for wisconsin fans who turn a blind eye or excuse it.

zero excuses possible though. Zero.

 

[notlongago]

Wisconsin has had the reputation as the dirtiest team in MBB for a few years now, and not only because of Davison. It’s been scandal after scandal after mindblowingly dirty plays go viral again and again. And that’s on player(s) and mostly on enabler and coacher of such bush league “basketball”. Embarrassing for us all, but mostly for wisconsin fans who turn a blind eye or excuse it.

zero excuses possible though. Zero.

irrelevant. Its not a sportsmanship award.

 

[kceasthawk]

Badgers definitely over performed this season as did the Hawkeyes,.. Gard and Davis deserve the awards..

I'll agree with Gard, but not Davis in any way. Iowa was predicted to be right there with Wisconsin at 9/10. Both players are Soph who made huge jumps this year, but Keegans numbers are easily superior to Davis.

 

[nbanflfactory]

….if awarded before the season ends.

And the B10 got it wrong this year with Gard and Davis.

Why award coach and player of the year for B10 even before the B10 tournament? Much less NCAAs?

At least Fran and Keegan, after winning the BTT in record setting fashion, end up looking better than Gard and Davis.

because they were and are.

What happens in NCAA remains to be seen but if the conference actually values the tourney, give the damn awards AFTER it so we have all the relevant data in to make a good decision.

Keegan got jobbed imo.

A seasoned coach can't complain if he finishes 5th imo. Nice strong finish to the year though, which was really nice

 

[Terrykohawk]

I have to admit, results matter. However I have a personal policy of never voting for jerks. That would include Gard and Davison. Davis is iffy. Guess guilt by association (Davison teammate) is not fair so Davis gets some slack. Keegan is still a better all around player.

 

[topherchris20]

Unfortunately, and someone correct me if I am wrong, but conference awards have always been given out after the regular season concludes.

And don't all conferences hand out their awards after the regular season?

And, unfortunately, some people still vote for the best player on the best team, so some voted for Davis, some voted for Cochburn, some voted for Keegan.

Hell, what's ironic, is that Keegan still has a shot at National Player of the Year based on his performances in both the regular season and to date. Suddenly no one is talking about Johnny Davis.

Unfortunately, what follows is why Greg Gard (the guy who has Brad Davison's back) got B1G Coach of the Year.

Wisconsin was picked 10th in the preseason; they finished 2nd.

The next 2 best coaching jobs this year?

IOWA: Picked 9th, finished 5th
Rutgers: Picked 8th, finished 4th...... @MrsScrew

The worst coaching job this year (and it's not even close)?

Michigan was picked to win the B1G; they finished 8th.


Comparing the 2021-2022 Big Ten Media Preseason Poll (first-place votes in parenthesis) to Actual Results:


Actual.......Predicted
Finish........Finish

....1st.............3rd...Illinois 320 (3)

...2nd...........10th...Wisconsin 149

...3rd.............2nd...Purdue 373 (12)

...4th.............8th...Rutgers 208

...5th.............9th...Iowa 150

....6th............4th...Ohio State 316

....7th............6th...Michigan State 262

...8th.............1st.....Michigan 373 (13)

...9th.............7th...Indiana 219

...10th...........5th...Maryland 269

..11th.........T-12th...Penn State 81

..12th........T-12th...Northwestern 81

..13th...........11th...Nebraska 105

..14th...........14th....Minnesota 34

How is that ironic? Ironic isn't just a synonym for weird or funny.

 

[myteamcanbeatupyourteam]

Badgers definitely over performed this season as did the Hawkeyes,.. Gard and Davis deserve the awards..

I think it should automatically disqualify you from those awards losing to Nebraska.