Burroughs/FRL

[Azchief32]

JB will have to be beaten out...he won't go quietly into the night if he's still the best. He lives the life, handles injury well, and adapts well to changes in how people wrestle him. JB is a great athlete but I think his best attribute (and underrated) is his toughness. Like any great competitor, he wrestles with a chip on his shoulder. Fans in the U.S. who underestimate him, dirty wrestlers overseas, corrupt refs...if its out there, it fuels him. IMO, he wants to leave zero doubt that he was the best in the world. Going to be a tough road but I wouldn't bet against him.

Hard not to take this cat for granted because he makes the superhuman look routine. Very proud to call this guy an American and having him repping our sport so well. Tough, technical, athletic, and full of desire. Please keep pushing DT and Dake to keep the chip on this guy's shoulder...keeps him sharp.

On my road trip, was listening to FRL with JB. Much of it was about race. One of the topics was about pigeonholing black guys as "athletic" instead of having all the other attributes needed to be an elite wrestler. JB opined that fans sometimes think his success is due to his athleticism.

I remember an interview with Magic Johnson on this issue. Good white guys like Bird were "gym rats" who worked their butts off while guys like Magic were born dribbling the ball of out of their Mom's wombs (his words). Magic wanted the credit for putting in the work to be elite.

In both cases, this is a largely a media driven narrative in most sports. JB may have started out on the world stage as a one or two trick pony but he has evolved. Any thinking wrestling fan has an idea how much hard work it takes and has given JB the credit. So JB, if you read these boards, you were recognized a long time ago for all of your attributes. Good luck and bring the gold back.

 

[anon_bmgiwwa819jyc]

It's an issue in the MMA world as well, "explosive" is an adjective almost entirely reserved for fighters of color. In regards to JB, he is without a doubt physically gifted, but as you said any wrestling fan worth their salt would realize that his positioning and mat awareness is the best in the world. I also can't think of a time I've seen him gassed. The dude is the total package.

 

[Omahahawk86]

He's a completely different wrestler than he was a few years ago. His defense is spectacular. His re shot to a double or single is the best in the world. His parterre defense is near flawless and he has an extremely high level lace. None of those are natural. That is the wrestler all his hard work has turned him into.

 

[SansSouci]

Is he coming to Iowa as an assistant or is there a different reason we're blowing Nebraska's biggest recruiter?

 

[AFHawk86]

He's obviously a great wrestler and athlete. His results speak for themselves. Why would someone with his achievements care which adjectives people use to describe his performance? Yes he's got an explosive shot and yes he works hard to be a premiere world class athlete. Enough said.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

I don't think there's any doubt JB is extremely dedicated and a very hard worker. He's also very bright, extremely well-spoken, and a great husband and father -- the ideal ambassador for the sport.

That said, it's also pretty silly not to acknowledge that he has certain physical gifts that help his cause. Great fast-twitch musculature and long arms,
For starters, which make his blast double almost unstoppable.

The thing that makes JB so formidable on the mat is the combination of his physical gifts and his work ethic and other intangible attributes. To deny his physical advantages is as unfair and inaccurate as it is to claim they're the only basis of his success.

 

[anon_bmgiwwa819jyc]

He's obviously a great wrestler and athlete. His results speak for themselves. Why would someone with his achievements care which adjectives people use to describe his performance? Yes he's got an explosive shot and yes he works hard to be a premiere world class athlete. Enough said.

Because he believes that black athletes often get labeled as athletic or physically gifted, while their other attributes, like work ethic and technique are not talked about. He's also built himself into the beast he is today, he wasn't always that jacked, heck he used to be a string bean. Ed Ruth was another wrestler people used to label as "explosive". I didn't find his style explosive at all. He was a slick wrestler that relied primarily on exceptional technique (in folkstyle anyways).

 

[DonHawkeye]

I know he is a great wrestler and from all accounts seems to be an great guy. I just think he came off kinda amateurish and lame on the podcast. If you post something like he did you better have thick enough skin to handle the blow back. You shouldn't have to go on FLR to tell everyone how great of a human begin you are, you should blow the haters off.

Is that better Sans?

 

[pablow]

I agree with JB. I've also suffered through life with repeated comments about my good looks, my intelligence, and, of course, my athletic prowess. It takes its toll my friends.

 

[Sandor45]

I don't think there's any doubt JB is extremely dedicated and a very hard worker. He's also very bright, extremely well-spoken, and a great husband and father -- the ideal ambassador for the sport.

That said, it's also pretty silly not to acknowledge that he has certain physical gifts that help his cause. Great fast-twitch musculature and long arms,
For starters, which make his blast double almost unstoppable.

The thing that makes JB so formidable on the mat is the combination of his physical gifts and his work ethic and other intangible attributes. To deny his physical advantages is as unfair and inaccurate as it is to claim they're the only basis of his success.

I agree. There's no substitute for hard work, especially in the sport of wrestling.
Wrestlers wrestle styles that best fit their strengths. As you mentioned, JB's made for the blast double. Robby Smith's body is made for throwing guys. And, Frank Molinaro is made for clubbing guys into frenzies than question why the guy gets pissed off.
But also, you can't dismiss the idea that some guys are more technical than others because they are.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

I agree with JB. I've also suffered through life with repeated comments about my good looks, my intelligence, and, of course, my athletic prowess. It takes its toll my friends.

Ladies and gentlemen, I present today's winner of the Internet.

 

[jammenz]

It helps to realize that JB, like Anthony Robles who went 12-5 his rfr year, didn't come out of the gate a wrestling sensation. Burroughs was not even the starter as a red shirt freshman. He took over for Rob Sanders at the midpoint of the season and finished 12-5, placing 3rd in the Big XII, and going 1-2 at NCAA's. Their success has come from hard work and determination.

 

[crablegs1]

Jordan's mental strength is the best that I've ever seen. The guy never gets flustered. He has given up the first points, or been down late in several matches against absolute world class competition. It is really amazing.

The guy won a world title 4 weeks after having a plate screwed into his broken ankle. That is the stuff of legends.

 

[pumpdog20]

Blacks are complaining about only being called athletic, and whites are complaining about not being called athletic. Am I doing this right?

 

[wasdt21]

Jordon is and has been the best in the world. when you reach that point there is bound to be pressure from others to stand against what they view as negative. we have all heard the catch words and right away can tell if someone is talking about a white athlete or a black athlete. some don't see it as offensive, but it does not matter you can't tell someone else what they can or can not be offended by. Jordon should be proud of what he's done and how he's done, beating all those juiced up ruskies.

 

[pinters]

Pretty sure JB is Family minded. Bring the best to the table so he can for his family.

 

[lookleft goright]

I agree with JB. I've also suffered through life with repeated comments about my good looks, my intelligence, and, of course, my athletic prowess. It takes its toll my friends.

It reminds me of the song --
My friends say I am egotistical,
Hell I don't even know what that means.
I think it has s something to do with the way
I fill out my skin tight blue jeans
Oh lord it hard to be humble, when you are perfect in every way....

 

[Hawknado]

I'm sorry but athletic is the perfect word to describe someone like Burroughs, not to say he doesn't have incredible skill in all different aspects. Look at the guy, he looks like he could compete in any sport he wanted to get involved in.

 

[Omahahawk86]

I'm sorry but athletic is the perfect word to describe someone like Burroughs, not to say he doesn't have incredible skill in all different aspects. Look at the guy, he looks like he could compete in any sport he wanted to get involved in.

Pry play nose guard for the Patriots or Center for the Bulls.

 

[el dub]

Pry play nose guard for the Patriots or Center for the Bulls.

You talking about the 6'10"/ 305# version of JB, right?

 

[Azchief32]

I disagree...athleticism is just one part of a wrestler. Jordan could run a 4.3 40, have a 40"
leap, and bench 225 30 times in a row but all that would get him would be good scores at the NFL combine and a cup of coffee for 4 bucks.

That's the beauty of our sport...you must be good in a lot of facets to be truly elite....you can be deficient in a few but overcompensate in other areas. For example, the Brands were not great athletes but they were tough, with huge gas tanks and had a desire to win that was almost unmatched. We had a guy with one leg reach the pinnacle in college.

Jordan wasn't born with a blast double...it took years to make it almost unstoppable and for him to develop. Guys like LeBron or Kobe were born with physical attributes that allowed them to be good early in their careers. John Elway had a rifle for an arm...same as Nolan Ryan. I submit that there are very few wrestlers that can match their progress so early.

JB certainly didn't...in fact, his first world title was a pleasant surprise. He worked his ass off and continues to do so. It's why we make fun of other sports. LeBron would be out for a year on a broken ankle...JB beat the best in the world on his. That is not an example of athleticism.

Metcalf used to beat JB...was JB any less of an athlete than? But does anybody question that JB's tenacity is equal or better than Metcalf's now?

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

Metcalf beat JB, but JB was cutting a lot and thrived when he moved up and filled out. Furthermore, JB was inexperienced when Brent was beating him, and Brent still wasn't able to blow him out like he did with nearly everyone else. Even early on, JB wasn't your average college wrestler. He didn't peak for a couple of years, but he was darn good early on, as well.

His success is the product of many attributes, one of which is exceptional physical prowess, some of which is God-given but some of which has been developed through lots of hard work. It's unfair and inaccurate to ascribe his huge success to any certain factor. He's the complete package. But to deny that natural physical ability has been one of several key factors is as unfair as claiming it's the sole reason for his success.

 

[hawkster03]

I love JB. However, he needs to stop trying to be political and just do what he does best, which is WRESTLE. He has said some pretty dumb things in the last couple weeks. He has made himself look a little foolish and many are calling him out on it. I'm sure his sponsors are thinking the same. thing.

 

[pinters]

Im the Best ego does not always come without verbal faults.

 

[anon_bmgiwwa819jyc]

I love JB. However, he needs to stop trying to be political and just do what he does best, which is WRESTLE. He has said some pretty dumb things in the last couple weeks. He has made himself look a little foolish and many are calling him out on it. I'm sure his sponsors are thinking the same. thing.

What makes this country great is that people are allowed to hold different opinions. You don't agree with him, so you think he shouldn't talk about it, however there are a lot of people who do and are glad he said what he did.

 

[DonHawkeye]

The thing I think gets overlooked is how many different attributes can be considered "Talent". Most people just think it means being strong, tall, fast... Those are talents for sure, and in some sports not having them means you have no shot at being world class. Talents that get overlooked are grit, focus, aerobic capacity, intelligence... Just like people are born with more natural speed and strength some people are born with more of the latter talents. Wrestling rewards the overlooked types of talent as much if not more than any other sport.

 

[ev_flores0331]

JB never said all police officers are racist, he never condoned violence.

I love JB. However, he needs to stop trying to be political and just do what he does best, which is WRESTLE. He has said some pretty dumb things in the last couple weeks. He has made himself look a little foolish and many are calling him out on it. I'm sure his sponsors are thinking the same. thing.

What exactly did he say that you consider dumb? Just curious.

 

[crablegs1]

His success is the product of many attributes, one of which is exceptional physical prowess, some of which is God-given but some of which has been developed through lots of hard work. It's unfair and inaccurate to ascribe his huge success to any certain factor. He's the complete package. But to deny that natural physical ability has been one of several key factors is as unfair as claiming it's the sole reason for his success.

I don't think anyone ever denied that he has amazing natural physical ability. If you listened to the interview, he plainly said that he has been extremely blessed with his physical traits. He just wishes that wasn't the main thing people brought up about him when they describe him.

 

[jammenz]

Even Gable was impressed by the intensity of JB's workout at the open practice.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

I don't think anyone ever denied that he has amazing natural physical ability. If you listened to the interview, he plainly said that he has been extremely blessed with his physical traits. He just wishes that wasn't the main thing people brought up about him when they describe him.

Of course nobody ever denied that he had tremendous natural ability. That's self-evident. The question is how big a factor that ability has been in his success.

While it's unfair to claim that his natural ability has gotten him to his point of superstar status all by itself, I think it's also a little unrealistic for JB to expect fans not to point to the fact that he has a virtually perfect physique for wrestling. He's a little bit like Michael Phelps in this regard -- both guys were built naturally to excel in their respective sports. That's not to say that neither guy has worked extremely hard or has a bunch of other traits (including work ethic, mental edge, etc.) that have contributed to his success.

 

[Azchief32]

Of course nobody ever denied that he had tremendous natural ability. That's self-evident. The question is how big a factor that ability has been in his success.

While it's unfair to claim that his natural ability has gotten him to his point of superstar status all by itself, I think it's also a little unrealistic for JB to expect fans not to point to the fact that he has a virtually perfect physique for wrestling. He's a little bit like Michael Phelps in this regard -- both guys were built naturally to excel in their respective sports. That's not to say that neither guy has worked extremely hard or has a bunch of other traits (including work ethic, mental edge, etc.) that have contributed to his success.

I agree in some respects. Its like a girl with big boobs who wears low cut tops but complains about guys staring at her tits. Yea sure, you might have a great body and personality but most are going to notice the other thing first.

 

[crablegs1]

The straw men are out today.

Of course nobody ever denied that he had tremendous natural ability. That's self-evident.

If that is the case, why did you say the following?

He's the complete package. But to deny that natural physical ability has been one of several key factors is as unfair as claiming it's the sole reason for his success.

I think it's also a little unrealistic for JB to expect fans not to point to the fact that he has a virtually perfect physique for wrestling.

JB doesn't expect fans to not point out his physical abilities. You just made up that straw man. All JB wanted was for some of his other attributes such as work ethic, mental toughness, conditioning, technical abilities (which are world class in their own right) to be mentioned in the same breath as his physical gifts. He lamented the fact that people only mention his physical gifts, not that they mention them at all.

 

[CholleyVandine]

Blacks are complaining about only being called athletic, and whites are complaining about not being called athletic. Am I doing this right?

Actually, it was a white interviewer (Christian Pyles) who said, "Black wrestlers are kind of marginalized for their physical gifts - not their tactics, not their strategy, not their hard work."

And another white interview (Willie Saylor) who said, "I think it's lazy to say that Jordan Burroughs is explosive and athletic ... Look at the blast double, which me and Christian have said on countless times, that's not all that Jordan Burroughs is. He wins matches late, he comes back from deficits, he has a gas tank. I just think to write Jordan Burroughs off as explosive, athletic, blast double is to cheapen all the facets of his game."

To which the black athlete responded, "I am blessed. I'm going to admit that I'm extremely blessed and I will never negate the value of my athleticism and my strength and my explosiveness and my reaction time within a match. .. But also I'm in there grinding, dog. Like every single day. I put in as much time as anyone, and I work extremely hard."

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

The straw men are out today.

If that is the case, why did you say the following?




JB doesn't expect fans to not point out his physical abilities. You just made up that straw man. All JB wanted was for some of his other attributes such as work ethic, mental toughness, conditioning, technical abilities (which are world class in their own right) to be mentioned in the same breath as his physical gifts. He lamented the fact that people only mention his physical gifts, not that they mention them at all.

I was responding to your incorrect assertion that I'd claimed that people were denying that he had exceptional natural ability. You were putting words in my mouth.

As for your supposed straw man, I said it was unrealistic for JB not to expect fans to point out his natural ability, which is clearly the most glaring feature of his incredible wrestling. No straw man there, although I may not have been clear enough. I was getting at what chief depicted with his "big boob" analogy. While JB has the whole package, I do think it's unrealistic for him to expect fans to appreciate the numerous attributes he brings, as his freakish physical skills are by far the most striking.

I can understand why he may lament the fact that fans may not appreciate his other attributes. However, to be fair, few athletes are known to that extent by your average fan. People know what they see on the mat, and that's a phenomenally gifted athlete.

If you'll note my previous posts in the thread, I clearly point out that there's much more to JB than just incredible physical ability.

You're clearly in the mood for a pissing match. I'm not a fan of pissing marches. You'll be pissing by yourself from now on where this topic is concerned.