Calling TO clarification?
- Thread starter hawk_it
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Clearly the refs were at fault not brady, whoever can't see this are out of touch with reality. Hawks were hosed plain and simple.
I am in line with that the refs did screw us. But when your younger where does the coach tell you not to dribble to? The Corner. I would of been fine with brady just holding the ball and calling Time-out. I know why he dribbled backwards to "waste" time but in doing that he gave minny a 6th defender (baseline) which ultimately ended up being the cause for the "supposedly jump ball".
I mean it sucks to have a game taken away from you like that. I just hope the players learn from it and move forward. I think the game Saturday will be interesting. MSU got smoked at Michigan and really showed no emotion in the game. Which makes me believe maybe their beat and done. Iowa fought hard and expended a lot of energy in the barn.
I would not be surprised if Iowa struggles and MSU lays it on them ala NW. If MSU plays remotely sloppy and allows Iowa to hand around, then I think the young hawks can pull it off. I just wonder how much the "refs" are going to let MSU get away with. Bridges is a physical beast.
Just watched the replay in slow motion 10x on my DVR.
Murphy's torso is directly between the ref and Brady from the time Brady is dribbling until the whistle is blown. So the ref can't see Brady do squat. He can't see his hands. He can't see him mouth "time out" (which he clearly does in the close up shot). That also means the ref cannot know for sure who actually has possession.
Then the question is "can he hear him" and based on having been going to Williams Arena since I was born (47 years), I can tell you that from how far away the ref was standing and given that Murphy was between Brady's mouth and the ref's ear...the ref wouldn't have heard Brady.
And I'm not even convinced that the person you can hear say "time out" on TV is Brady. There's a player running in from mid-court yelling and signaling for Brady to call a time out. Might have been him.
Murphy's torso is directly between the ref and Brady from the time Brady is dribbling until the whistle is blown. So the ref can't see Brady do squat. He can't see his hands. He can't see him mouth "time out" (which he clearly does in the close up shot). That also means the ref cannot know for sure who actually has possession.
Then the question is "can he hear him" and based on having been going to Williams Arena since I was born (47 years), I can tell you that from how far away the ref was standing and given that Murphy was between Brady's mouth and the ref's ear...the ref wouldn't have heard Brady.
And I'm not even convinced that the person you can hear say "time out" on TV is Brady. There's a player running in from mid-court yelling and signaling for Brady to call a time out. Might have been him.
Also, the TV dudes didn't even notice that Murphy was on the baseline until about the 5th replay.
They also noted that there's no way the ref could've heard Murphy with how loud it was.
They also noted that there's no way the ref could've heard Murphy with how loud it was.
That is why I am upset at Beaver, but also Scorotto. He was the other official by Minny's bench. He bailed and so did Wymer and neither of them looked to see an Iowa guys signaling TO. They both "blanked" or weren't paying attention to the ball. I don't know, but neither guy is in any of the still frames or videos until after the whistle is blown. I know most "Veteran" officials will stay with the ball and make sure that's #1 priority.
If Scorotto stays he has the angle to see Brady, but he also has the angle to see BAER or Bohannon coming in to call TO.
That crew did not do themselves any favors. The 5th foul on Murphy was the worst call I've seen outside of the "non jump ball" then the shot clock violation, they all stood there and did nothing. Those 3 guys should probably be docked and maybe not asked back to the league. They seem to be behind a lot of issues with the games they ref.
Guess you answered your own question. Ref has to be able to determine who has position of the ball to call it a jump ball. You just said he was unable to do so. He couldn't tell who had the ball. He couldn't tell if anyone was out of bounds, he couldn't tell if anyone was calling time out...although everyone else on the floor heard it....so he must have just made a guess then?
No one had to hear "murphy" and the refs had replay which can be used on any change of position during the last two minutes of the half and of the game. Since you just stated that the ref could not see what was happening you think replay might have been a logical choice?
You can signal with your hands or you can yell out for a timeout.
Additionally, the refs were informed when the players were coming out of the timeout that we (Iowa) would be calling a timeout when the ball was inbounded.
So for the refs not to be looking for the TO and to be out of position is complete BS.
Nobody really knows what the refs did or didn't see. Nor do we know what they heard. We can speculate all we want. The fact is that they missed an obvious timeout before the tie up and they missed the obvious fact that the Minnesota player that caused the alternate possession was clearly standing out of bounds. Those misses are on them because they were not in position to see or hear the play accurately.
The refs couldn't hear the TO call, but all the mikes around the court clearly did? That there is some selective hearing!
you say you ref'd for 22 years and you don't think he was out of position?
and the other two were just hanging out...at mid court where they should be...both of them?...when the play was right in front of the Minny bench..where Little Larry was when Baer passed the ball..then he took off.You know I'll say it..I think your full of BS...which is easy to do on the internet...if you don't think 2 of the 3 were out of position...I hope the hell you didn't officiate high school games.
Was your great grandpa in Billy Goat Gruff? Anyone who thinks the officiating was proper on that play has so much greasy grimy gopher guts oozing out their ears that they can't see the play for what it was, a serious **ck up by the officials.
Yeah it was odd that he painted himself in the corner. The lack of the officials giving the TO was bad, just as was the player standing out-of-bounds. The two defenders that trapped looked surprised when Brady held it and they went after him.
Clever. There wasn't a shadow of doubt who had possession. Even if that's your rationale, the Mn guy was oob. Clear now??
I personally have heard you muddle through your perception of the play/call. Eventhough I couldn't care less that you think you're explanation is correct, (and I'm not sure that you're not someone who just likes to argue for the sake of arguing) I want, and feel entitled to an explanation from someone that is held accountable. I am still infuriated, feel like it was an incapable crew, because of both opponents lack of status, or it was intentionally a missed call.... which is my worst fear.
And I am Not optimistic that we play without a hangover... for at least the next game. But then, that call changed the destiny of this team. For that reason alone, we deserve an admission, an explanation and an apology.
the ref is not listening to the TVso you join us yesterday...
the player calling for the TO (heard on TV) before the jump ball call...HAD THE FREAKEN ball & he wasn't standing at mid-court...does that help?
sorry buck wheat nobody was out of of position shows me your lack of knowledge. all 3 refs can not be focused on 1 play there are 10 players on the floor to watch.you say you ref'd for 22 years and you don't think he was out of position?
You know I'll say it..I think your full of BS...which is easy to do on the internet...if you don't think 2 of the 3 were out of position...I hope the hell you didn't officiate high school games.
out of touch is someone not willing to admit 40% FG shooting and 18 TOs might have been a problem also.
This thread is about the jump ball call, not whether Iowa played better than the Goofers overall. The Hawks definitely did not play their best basketball, but our defensive pressure and Pete's shooting down the stretch, put Iowa in a position to still win. The Goofers basically choked away the game, and their turnover with about 25 sec left should have sealed the comeback. Unfortunately, the officials took that away. If that play could be repeated with 100 different crews of officials, at least 95 of those crews would have granted Iowa the timeout. I am not sure how you could argue otherwise.
does not make a difference what this thread is about. the facts remain that our poor shooting and TOs had a huge impact on the game. the foot out of bounds was missed. the Time out call was not. he cant see bradys face because murphys body is in the way and blocks the refs vision before the tieup.
I think he turned to the corner thinking the ref would be back there and he'd dribble to the ref and call timeout. Bizarre to me that reviewing if someone stepped out of bounds is not reviewable. I get that you don't stop live play to review that, but there was a dead ball with the called tie up. When they review to see who tipped a ball out of bounds i'm sure that if the replay shows one of the players was standing out of bounds when he touched it that they consider that as part of the review.
Also, I noticed watching that Baer was trying to call timeout right at a ref with 2 seconds left, also to no avail
Also, I noticed watching that Baer was trying to call timeout right at a ref with 2 seconds left, also to no avail
What also seemed bizarre is that the ref never appeared to confer with the other refs to ask, did you see them call TO?
The fact that you and your Minnesota buddy are over here vehemently defending your win tells me all I need to know. You guys seriously need to stop. You know as well as anyone that your team was gift wrapped the opportunity to tie that game.
Before the play started, Fran told his players AND the refs, that we're going to call a timeout(which coaches do all the time now that they themselves cannot call timeouts).
The refs were out of position, for sure. In cases like that they should be able to review the play. Just to be sure that they did not F up. No more "Whoops" calls...
The NCAA should allow for reviews, for out of position referees. They should ALSO allow for a coach to have one red flag call in the final 2 minutes. Similar to football. You get the call right, it is reversed or the correct call is made. If not, you lose a timeout.
This would make the right call & be fair. Plus it would not allow for the refs to check on every single mistake. Only certain circumstances.
One thing is for certain, we don't want the refs stopping the clock all the dang time to review things. BUT, we need the correct calls to be made.
We are humans. We do make serious mistakes, as every Hawkeye knows. This one call could F up our season. Literally.
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If his vision was blocked how could he see that it was a jump ball? Did he guess or did he just call it the way he wanted it to go? You think on the change of possesion maybe the officials should have checked the monitor if they could not see what actually took place?
If you can't tell who definitively has possesion of the ball you can't call a JUMP BALL!
It's funny that the two people defending this call are making about as much sense as the original call itself.
How hard is it to admit they screwed up? The refs made a huge erroneous call which most likely effected the outcome of one team winning this game.
Won't deny that. Won't know until I try. Maybe something will change going forward...maybe not
Good to see you, Nebraska. You're always welcome with freedom of thought here, unlike your skirtillustrated site. Keep up the good fight with your 25-5 record against Iowa in men's sports the past two seasons!
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