Can a team with a POY go deep in tourney with only a dominant defense and 1 reliable scorer?

[KcTo]

I think back to Danny Manning leading a team of role players, that could play defense and could score just enough, to the national championship.

Iowa as now configured, 2Bigs starting, an giving additional minutes to tough as nails defender Pemsl, showed their brutally tough defense again, holding MN to 35% shooting and 55 points, including limiting player of year candidate Oturu to well below his averages (thanks to Kriener going M2M most of time).

Recall that was also the lineup that limited Stix Smith to only 13pts 5 rebounds and B1G favorite to 32% shooting and 49 points.

we also saw this at CIN, when JoeTO played only 4 minutes (owing to 3 TO and 3 fouls) which led to Kriener and Pemsl playing more.

Can scoring prevention be more effective than high scoring? Let’s look at that quickly.

in looking at KenPom top 10 teams, 7 of those are in the top 10 defensively. That is very strong evidence that a very strong defense is a very strong predictor of team success.

So I posit that by subtracting CJF offense, but also subtracting his poor defense, and giving those minutes to stout defenders like Kriener, Pemsl and BK, this team is actually better, because of the brutal defense they can bring, and brutal defense travels and rarely takes a day off. Also recall that Fran had all 3 bigs in the game, at the same time, talk about doubling down on defense. (And please recall who blocked that game winning 3pt shot attempt with 0.06 left = Kriener).

I do think that Iowa can win 4 of their 5 remaining games by relying on a dominant POY, a dominant defense, and the expected contribution of Weezy as a solid points producer.

is their any agreement here for this concept?

 

[BrunoMars420]

Do you watch basketball?

 

[Rifler]

Yesterday was good, but not really seeing where we have a dominant defense...

 

[KcTo]

Yesterday was good, but not really seeing where we have a dominant defense...

Iowa’s 2Big lineup, with more minutes devoted to Pemsl,
1. held the 2nd best center in league to his 2nd worst game of year
2. Held MN to 35% FG
3. went on 11-0 run, at end of game, because of defensive stops.
4. This was same dominant defensive team that help MD to its worst offensive game in thei B1G history

do you agree on these points?

 

[Rifler]

Iowa’s 2Big lineup, with more minutes devoted to Pemsl,
1. held the 2nd best center in league to his 2nd worst game of year
2. Held MN to 35% FG
3. went on 11-0 run, at end of game, because of defensive stops.
4. This was same dominant defensive team that help MD to its worst offensive game in thei B1G history

do you agree on these points?

OK,.. but I also watched the DePaul & @ Purdue games..

 

[LarryMullenJr.]

ESPN doesn't think Luka is even in the top level of big men so.......

 

[KcTo]

OK,.. but I also watched the DePaul & @ Purdue games..

Neither DePaul or Purdue started 2Bigs nor played Kreiner for 35m or Pemsl for 20.

These 2 are the best defenders on the team and these 2 got significantly fewer minutes in those games.

agree?

 

[KcTo]

ESPN doesn't think Luka is even in the top level of big men so.......

espn doesn’t broadcast B1G games so its little wonder they don’t support his brand

 

[LarryMullenJr.]

espn doesn’t broadcast B1G games so its little wonder they don’t support his brand

Was being sarcastic.

 

[Rifler]

Neither DePaul or Purdue started 2Bigs nor played Kreiner for 35m or Pemsl for 20.

These 2 are the best defenders on the team and these 2 got significantly fewer minutes in those games.

agree?

I'm as big a Hawkeye fan as you'll ever find, but would never, for a moment, claim that this team has a dominating defense,.. We have moments of greatness but still lack consistency,.. We seem to be built fairly well to defend a team like Minnesota however..

 

[anon_2zMXH429BhxV1Npk]

Minnesota missed a lot of open shots, shots that have gone down for other teams we've played on the road (Nebraska, Purdue, Indiana). RK and Garza did a good job on Oturu yesterday, but in all honesty Minnesota just isn't that good. Average and a bubble-ish team, but they definitely had a chance to score more than 55.

 

[BrunoMars420]

Key term to be used here is “sample size”

OP is using a 1 game sample size lol

 

[KcTo]

Key term to be used here is “sample size”

OP is using a 1 game sample size lol

Did you miss the reference to MD and Cincinnati..?

These 3 games represent Iowa’s best win (MD) and best wins away from home (MN and Cincinnati)

So the sample set I’m referring to are these.
And they are games played with the 2big configurations.

maybe you sample set is too small?

 

[StonesCat]

You lost me when you wrote the words "subtracting CJF's offense", and then "the team is actually better" in the same sentence.

 

[thirdandpunting]

Offensive rating correlates best with win%. I did this 5 years ago on a while on a plane to Vegas to bet the first weekend of the NCAA tournament.

Lost all my sports book winnings at a Blackjack table to a dealer huge fun bags. It was a good time.

Long story short... the OP is a moron and I like fun bags.

 

[JLDHAWK]

I think back to Danny Manning leading a team of role players, that could play defense and could score just enough, to the national championship.

Iowa as now configured, 2Bigs starting, an giving additional minutes to tough as nails defender Pemsl, showed their brutally tough defense again, holding MN to 35% shooting and 55 points, including limiting player of year candidate Oturu to well below his averages (thanks to Kriener going M2M most of time).

Recall that was also the lineup that limited Stix Smith to only 13pts 5 rebounds and B1G favorite to 32% shooting and 49 points.

we also saw this at CIN, when JoeTO played only 4 minutes (owing to 3 TO and 3 fouls) which led to Kriener and Pemsl playing more.

Can scoring prevention be more effective than high scoring? Let’s look at that quickly.

in looking at KenPom top 10 teams, 7 of those are in the top 10 defensively. That is very strong evidence that a very strong defense is a very strong predictor of team success.

So I posit that by subtracting CJF offense, but also subtracting his poor defense, and giving those minutes to stout defenders like Kriener, Pemsl and BK, this team is actually better, because of the brutal defense they can bring, and brutal defense travels and rarely takes a day off. Also recall that Fran had all 3 bigs in the game, at the same time, talk about doubling down on defense. (And please recall who blocked that game winning 3pt shot attempt with 0.06 left = Kriener).

I do think that Iowa can win 4 of their 5 remaining games by relying on a dominant POY, a dominant defense, and the expected contribution of Weezy as a solid points producer.

is their any agreement here for this concept?

No not even close to agreeing. If we even had a consistent defense we be tied for first and 4 less losses

 

[Gilligan222]

I think back to Danny Manning leading a team of role players, that could play defense and could score just enough, to the national championship.

Iowa as now configured, 2Bigs starting, an giving additional minutes to tough as nails defender Pemsl, showed their brutally tough defense again, holding MN to 35% shooting and 55 points, including limiting player of year candidate Oturu to well below his averages (thanks to Kriener going M2M most of time).

Recall that was also the lineup that limited Stix Smith to only 13pts 5 rebounds and B1G favorite to 32% shooting and 49 points.

we also saw this at CIN, when JoeTO played only 4 minutes (owing to 3 TO and 3 fouls) which led to Kriener and Pemsl playing more.

Can scoring prevention be more effective than high scoring? Let’s look at that quickly.

in looking at KenPom top 10 teams, 7 of those are in the top 10 defensively. That is very strong evidence that a very strong defense is a very strong predictor of team success.

So I posit that by subtracting CJF offense, but also subtracting his poor defense, and giving those minutes to stout defenders like Kriener, Pemsl and BK, this team is actually better, because of the brutal defense they can bring, and brutal defense travels and rarely takes a day off. Also recall that Fran had all 3 bigs in the game, at the same time, talk about doubling down on defense. (And please recall who blocked that game winning 3pt shot attempt with 0.06 left = Kriener).

I do think that Iowa can win 4 of their 5 remaining games by relying on a dominant POY, a dominant defense, and the expected contribution of Weezy as a solid points producer.

is their any agreement here for this concept?

question [actually 2]
1st do you watch these games or just look at the box score
2nd why do you call JoeTO?

he is after all a FR and was never called or ranked a 5* 1 n done player,
JT is leading the hawks in steals
yes he has 50 TO's but to put that into perspective
Jordan as a FR had 76 TO's
Gesell as a FR had 59 TO's

so before you trash a player do a little research on past FR PG's

even Marble as a JR had 80 TO's.. players who have the ball in their hands tend to have more TO's.

this is happened to Cook last season as he had 92 TO's.

the whole Idea is to limit the TO's in the 17-18 season where they went 4-14 in BT play they avg 13.3 TO's per game
this season they are avg'ing 12.2 TO's per game,

now to CJ you do realize that he is the best perimeter defender on the team

in that CINN game Evelyn had his best game this is where Fran is at his best by sticking with the hot hand, BE had the hot hand and FR JT didn't in his 1st start.

Fran is going with the hot hand in fact he has been doing this quite often the last few years. this is his best coaching since he has been here, these players are playing their best team ball since the Gesell and Woodbury years.​

 

[ICWestfan]

question [actually 2]
1st do you watch these games or just look at the box score
2nd why do you call JoeTO?

he is after all a FR and was never called or ranked a 5* 1 n done player,
JT is leading the hawks in steals
yes he has 50 TO's but to put that into perspective
Jordan as a FR had 76 TO's
Gesell as a FR had 59 TO's

so before you trash a player do a little research on past FR PG's

even Marble as a JR had 80 TO's.. players who have the ball in their hands tend to have more TO's.

this is happened to Cook last season as he had 92 TO's.

the whole Idea is to limit the TO's in the 17-18 season where they went 4-14 in BT play they avg 13.3 TO's per game
this season they are avg'ing 12.2 TO's per game,

now to CJ you do realize that he is the best perimeter defender on the team

in that CINN game Evelyn had his best game this is where Fran is at his best by sticking with the hot hand, BE had the hot hand and FR JT didn't in his 1st start.

Fran is going with the hot hand in fact he has been doing this quite often the last few years. this is his best coaching since he has been here, these players are playing their best team ball since the Gesell and Woodbury years.​

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

[BrunoMars420]

Did you miss the reference to MD and Cincinnati..?

These 3 games represent Iowa’s best win (MD) and best wins away from home (MN and Cincinnati)

So the sample set I’m referring to are these.
And they are games played with the 2big configurations.

maybe you sample set is too small?

So you are using a 3 game sample size over 26 games? Lolz

 

[FranklinHawk]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Herb!!!

 

[Gilligan222]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

thx for confirming that you DON'T watch the games.,

 

[hknation]

Did you miss the reference to MD and Cincinnati..?

These 3 games represent Iowa’s best win (MD) and best wins away from home (MN and Cincinnati)

So the sample set I’m referring to are these.
And they are games played with the 2big configurations.

maybe you sample set is too small?

And, most importantly, all 3 are "quad 1" wins.

 

[KcTo]

Minnesota missed a lot of open shots, shots that have gone down for other teams we've played on the road (Nebraska, Purdue, Indiana). RK and Garza did a good job on Oturu yesterday, but in all honesty Minnesota just isn't that good. Average and a bubble-ish team, but they definitely had a chance to score more than 55.

If MN is not that good then why were they favored by 4.5 pts?
And had a 60% win percentage?

And MN @ home has beaten front runners MD and tPSU, so to say their not good at home is not founded in the numbers.

 

[KcTo]

So you are using a 3 game sample size over 26 games? Lolz

Please try to read the entire post and attempt to grasp the primary message.

the assertion is that this particular lineup as configured, with 2Bigs starting, has resulted in 3 of the best wins Iowa has achieved,

I’m not saying all the games that Iowa has played, I’m clearly saying “the games that 2 big started” and in another post I’ve added , in the post JoBo timeframe,

and again, since jobo has been shelved, the 2Big starting lineup, has produced their best win, MD (holding them to 49 points and 35% FG) ,and then on the road at MN, holding them to 55 points and 35%, and then At Cincinnati, where JoeTO was immediately pulled, Iowa again allowed 70 points and held them to 32% FG

What has been different versus the other Iowa games are in the # of minutes the bigs play, the limited # of minutes that JoeTO played, and in 2 of those games, MD and MN , CJF did not play at all...

Are there any questions on this now?

 

[Gilligan222]

If MN is not that good then why were they favored by 4.5 pts?
And had a 60% win percentage?

And MN @ home has beaten front runners MD and tPSU, so to say their not good at home is not founded in the numbers.

haven't you learned by now that when ever Iowa wins that team just isn't any good no matter who the team is.

 

[BrunoMars420]

No questions, I am just hoping you understand the term sample size. Also you said “stout defense” and “pemsl” in the Same sentence. The OP is littered with a lot of bad hawt takes

 

[Gilligan222]

Please try to read the entire post and attempt to grasp the primary message.

the assertion is that this particular lineup as configured, with 2Bigs starting, has resulted in 3 of the best wins Iowa has achieved,

I’m not saying all the games that Iowa has played, I’m clearly saying “the games that 2 big started” and in another post I’ve added , in the post JoBo timeframe,

and again, since jobo has been shelved, the 2Big starting lineup, has produced their best win, MD (holding them to 49 points and 35% FG) ,and then on the road at MN, holding them to 55 points and 35%, and then At Cincinnati, where JoeTO was immediately pulled, Iowa again allowed 70 points and held them to 32% FG

What has been different versus the other Iowa games are in the # of minutes the bigs play, the limited # of minutes that JoeTO played, and in 2 of those games, MD and MN , CJF did not play at all...

Are there any questions on this now?

maybe its time for you to get the ban hammer for your CONSTANT attack on JT.

he is eithe JT or Toussaint NOT JoeTO.

 

[KcTo]

question [actually 2]
1st do you watch these games or just look at the box score
2nd why do you call JoeTO?

he is after all a FR and was never called or ranked a 5* 1 n done player,
JT is leading the hawks in steals
yes he has 50 TO's but to put that into perspective
Jordan as a FR had 76 TO's
Gesell as a FR had 59 TO's

so before you trash a player do a little research on past FR PG's

even Marble as a JR had 80 TO's.. players who have the ball in their hands tend to have more TO's.

this is happened to Cook last season as he had 92 TO's.

the whole Idea is to limit the TO's in the 17-18 season where they went 4-14 in BT play they avg 13.3 TO's per game
this season they are avg'ing 12.2 TO's per game,

now to CJ you do realize that he is the best perimeter defender on the team

in that CINN game Evelyn had his best game this is where Fran is at his best by sticking with the hot hand, BE had the hot hand and FR JT didn't in his 1st start.

Fran is going with the hot hand in fact he has been doing this quite often the last few years. this is his best coaching since he has been here, these players are playing their best team ball since the Gesell and Woodbury years.​

A. Yes I do watch the entire game, then watch the replay in film review, to verify and clarify my takes,
B. If you call presenting the data on JoeTO as ‘trashing him’, I’m guilty. I like JoeTO, I think he’s got potential, I think he’s being incorrectly used as a starter ( which is not his fault), he’s should be getting a few minutes to give guys a blow, 6-10m / game.
C. JoeTO name should be obvious, I would not think Cook or Marble are his comps, they are ~Iowa HoFers
D. What evidence do you have that CJF is “the best perimeter defender”. Sports reference has him as being a poor defender better than only the often abused JoBo on defense.
E. Iowa’s 2 best wins came with out CJF, coincidence or correlation?

 

[Suterman]

Welcome back Gilligan/Herby/Blacktarn!!!!

 

[Gilligan222]

JT has 50 TO's so far PG Jordan as a FR had 76
PG Gesell as a FR had 59 TO's

Fran being a former college pg himself knows far more than you will ever know on how and when to play PG JT,
the Cinncinnati game JT MADE his 1st start, gee looked more like FR 1st star jitters, in this case GT Evelyn came in and was a big reason why Iowa won that game.

please don't confuse a FR not playing up to your expectations and refrain from referring to him as JoeTO as he has done nothing to deserve that tag.
Garza has 47 TO's
Weezy has 41 TO's

this team is/has far exceeded 99.9% of posters expectations
99.9% expected a 10th or worse finish in the BT with ABSOLUTELY NO SHOT AT THE POST SEASON.

here they are 5 games left in the regular season T-3rd and a 6 seed in the NCAAT.

they are doing this after losing 3 starters during the season and losing these before the season SR Baer
JR Cook 2nd Team All BT to the NBA
JR Moss to Kansas via the GT.

and yet here you are bellyaching about this player and/or that player and more importantly how Fran is using these players,

you are the most pathetic poster around.

 

[Ronman]

"So I posit that by subtracting CJF offense, but also subtracting his poor defense." I don't care what sports-reference says, I watch every Iowa game and I do not consider CJ to be a weak defensive player, but I suppose the "number guys" know more than I do having actually watched the games.

 

[KcTo]

No questions, I am just hoping you understand the term sample size. Also you said “stout defense” and “pemsl” in the Same sentence. The OP is littered with a lot of bad hawt takes

No questions, I am just hoping you understand the term sample size. Also you said “stout defense” and “pemsl” in the Same sentence. The OP is littered with a lot of bad hawt takes

No questions, I am just hoping you understand the term sample size. Also you said “stout defense” and “pemsl” in the Same sentence. The OP is littered with a lot of bad hawt takes

You realize that Curtis Pemsl has the highest ranked defensive value on this team?
As per Sports Reference?

And the evidence for your opinion?

 

[anon_2zMXH429BhxV1Npk]

If MN is not that good then why were they favored by 4.5 pts?
And had a 60% win percentage?

And MN @ home has beaten front runners MD and tPSU, so to say their not good at home is not founded in the numbers.

Because they aren't. Iowa had lost 3 of the last 5, all on the road, two to unranked and more or less bubble teams, all while having 1 road win in two months. Look at home vs. road records for all teams in the conference this year. Then add in that Iowa has essentially 7 healthy scholarship players, and basically two players that can score more than 10 points in any given game.

Do you really not know how betting odds work and think Iowa should have been favored?

Iowa played good defense yesterday, but you're drunk if you think that was the overwhelming reason they won, or that they've played anything close to above average defense all year, let alone thinking it will all of a sudden spur them on a deep tourny run. Their offense will carry them and it is entirely reliant on A. Garza staying out of foul trouble B. Joe getting his stuff together and C. CJ being healthy. That's about it.

 

[FranklinHawk]

You realize that Curtis Pemsl has the highest ranked defensive value on this team?
As per Sports Reference?

And the evidence for your opinion?

Right, Curtis Pemsl hasn't given up a single damn basket all year!

 

[KcTo]

Right, Curtis Pemsl hasn't given up a single damn basket all year!

Wrong, he’s given up baskets, everyone does, but he wasn’t involved in IU and Purdue raining in 3’s with impunity over his head and in his defensive area.
Please try to look at things with out the bias...

 

[FranklinHawk]

Wrong, he’s given up baskets, everyone does, but he wasn’t involved in IU and Purdue raining in 3’s with impunity over his head and in his defensive area.
Please try to look at things with out the bias...

Cordell Pemsl takes offense to your post.

 

[mtdew_fever]

Iowa can most definitely make a run.

They just found a way to win a B10 road even though their 3 starting guards shot a combined 3-14. How often does that happen?

The key for Iowa to win is continuing to feed Garza the ball, win the rebound battle and limit turning over the ball.

 

[KcTo]

Iowa can most definitely make a run.

They just found a way to win a B10 road even though their 3 starting guards shot a combined 3-14. How often does that happen?

The key for Iowa to win is continuing to feed Garza the ball, win the rebound battle and limit turning over the ball.

I agree! That Iowa can and will make a run and as you so insightfully point out that Iowa gets a road win with virtually no scoring input from their backcourt and when Weezy returns to form, and with limited TO and rebounding, this team can be a contender for the BTT title as well.

 

[tippet1]

I think back to Danny Manning leading a team of role players, that could play defense and could score just enough, to the national championship.

Iowa as now configured, 2Bigs starting, an giving additional minutes to tough as nails defender Pemsl, showed their brutally tough defense again, holding MN to 35% shooting and 55 points, including limiting player of year candidate Oturu to well below his averages (thanks to Kriener going M2M most of time).

Recall that was also the lineup that limited Stix Smith to only 13pts 5 rebounds and B1G favorite to 32% shooting and 49 points.

we also saw this at CIN, when JoeTO played only 4 minutes (owing to 3 TO and 3 fouls) which led to Kriener and Pemsl playing more.

Can scoring prevention be more effective than high scoring? Let’s look at that quickly.

in looking at KenPom top 10 teams, 7 of those are in the top 10 defensively. That is very strong evidence that a very strong defense is a very strong predictor of team success.

So I posit that by subtracting CJF offense, but also subtracting his poor defense, and giving those minutes to stout defenders like Kriener, Pemsl and BK, this team is actually better, because of the brutal defense they can bring, and brutal defense travels and rarely takes a day off. Also recall that Fran had all 3 bigs in the game, at the same time, talk about doubling down on defense. (And please recall who blocked that game winning 3pt shot attempt with 0.06 left = Kriener).

I do think that Iowa can win 4 of their 5 remaining games by relying on a dominant POY, a dominant defense, and the expected contribution of Weezy as a solid points producer.

is their any agreement here for this concept?

Navy, with David Robinson had a really nice run. I wouldn't say they had a dominant defense but played at a slow pace, which led to fewer possessions.

 

[TheTruthTheWholeTruth]

Some many holes, so little time. Perhaps another day.