can we all agree now...
- Thread starter Kurt Warner
- Start date
Especially the one to Canzeri along the left sideline, into coverage, right where it needed to be, in stride. It didn't go for huge yardage, but that was a TOUGH throw. With all due respect to Jake, I don't see him making that throw.
I agree that CJ wasn't his usual gun-slinging self. However, I wasn't bothered by it, because he was noticeably more decisive about throwing the ball away than Jake was last year. If the pattern is open, I do think he'll be slinging it in there. However, if it's not, he'll be quick to throw it away and live to play another down.
Hopefully, we get the best of both worlds: A QB who's not afraid to throw it downfield when it's open but who knows when to play it safe and avoid the costly turnover. I expect that we'll see more picks than last year, but I think we'll get a lot more bang for our buck.
Another difference is having someone in the backfield who can be a true threat in the passing game. As far as receiving out of the backfield goes, Daniels has shown more potential than Mark Weisman. Not a knock on MW. Just different players with different skill sets.
You guys are full of good posts this labor day morn. Figured most everyone might to hungover for such insightful posts.
Yep, no idiotic "dribble" today.You guys are full of good posts this labor day morn. Figured most everyone might to hungover for such insightful posts.
THIS. We still do not have good receivers. Average at best.
Whether CJ is better or not(I think he is) Ruddock had the same issue.
We could improve in the WR area this year(most likely next year), IF Scheel & J Smith can lock down the play calling, and run the proper routes, AND they are an improvement... OR the others step it up. So far we have not seen that. Time will tell.
Both Scheel & Smith were said to be the best newbies hands down, according to one of our DBs. We will see.
I watched the replay last night, and paid closer attention (fantasy draft on Saturday). CJ as a junior looks a little better than Jake as a junior, after one game. CJ had a couple of good throws early, nothing spectacular but also well done.
As for arm strength being dispositive of the QB debate, I too have two words: JaMarcus Russell.
As for arm strength being dispositive of the QB debate, I too have two words: JaMarcus Russell.
There was a play he got flushed out of the pocket, kept his eyes downfield and and threw a strike for a first down on 3rd and long, and I think that play was in the first couple of drives. I know for a fact he was able to keep plays alive with his feet, something I observed during the game. Unfortunately, my memory isn't great and can't remember many specific plays.
Are you trying to argue that CJ doesn't extend plays? That he doesn't make more plays with his feet? What exactly is your argument?
I asked you when those plays are, now you admit there either was only 1 or you can't remember them.
Fine. Seems weird to support your point without knowing any other instances.
Fine. Seems weird to support your point without knowing any other instances.
Had I known I was going to be interrogated after the game on something that seemed pretty obvious while watching, I probably would have taken better notes. Next time.
Thought it rather interesting that KF said in an article in the DSM Register that he decided to open the QB position based on a couple of red zone turn-overs in last season's Nebraska game. Also really seems to have warmed up to CJ as being what this team needs. I would like to be able to see the game as what I have read and heard off this site, it sounds like it was a great start to what I hope is a great season!!
Its obvious to anyone with eyes and football iq that cj looks down field longer as he extends plays with his feet. There really is no comparison between the two to anyone with a minor understanding of the game.
Doesn't it stink that he wasted all year refusing to see what 99% of the people out there already knew? We very well could have been the lambs for Ohio State and his seat wouldn't be near as hot.
This is pretty accurate.
We know a few things about the comparison between Jake and CJ:
(1) We know CJ has a stronger arm. There were a couple passes Saturday that CJ made that I don't know Jake could have. Additionally, even on some of the bubble screen passes getting the ball out to the WR a half second earlier can make the difference between a big play and a short gain.
(2) We know CJ has better legs. There were a few times Saturday where CJ created time with his feet and one run in particular where he evaded pressure and picked up 6-7 yards to get us into a manageable 3rd down situation. I don't think Jake could have made that same play.
(3) We know that last year, the coaches trusted Jake more to run the playbook than CJ. Given the fact that CJ has more physical tools (and that has never been up for debate) the only reason Jake was the starter last year was his decision making.
Given these three items, what happened Saturday means very little because it doesn't change anything that we already knew. CJ is the more gifted athlete, and it seems as though with an additional year under the coaching of Ferentz/Davis he has gained more trust from the coaches that he will do what they expect him to do. If his football IQ is on the level of Jake's, CJ will easily be the better QB. I fully expect CJ to be a better QB than Jake this year, but I don't know that he was ready to make that jump last year. I thought he would have been able to make that jump last year, but the coaches apparently did not. I don't think their opinion was ridiculous by any means.
It was a good play. Just so happens he missed T Smith running wide open deep right behind the guy he threw it too. It would have been 6. He played pretty well overall, but missed a couple things and made some mistakes. It will happen every game this year. He is no different than any other QB in major college football. Can we agree that he has some qualties that are better than Jake, and some that are not as good? I wish people would move on from last year and just let this guy build his own legacy based on his skillset and not compared to his predecessor.
I don't post that much, and often agree with your stance against the "sky is falling, fire everyone" crowd. And I can't argue with most of your post....except this. The biggest reason that CJ wasn't firing the ball downfield is that no one downfield was open. He wasn't forcing anything. Now last year, everyone in the stadium would see a guy wide open downfield and Jake would throw a three yard pass multiple times a game. I think that's the difference, at least on that point.
JFC. You always have to be so abrasive. There were several times CJ was looking down field and it wasn't open.
I didn't record the game. Even if I did, I wouldn't go through and re watch it to get the instances just to appease you.
Re watch the game for yourself. Frankly, the fact that you don't know the CJ was looking down field Saturday gives me serious doubts about you actually watching the game.
I accused you once before of going to games for reasons of stature. I feel like you're proving me right. You didn't actually pay attention to the game yesterday.
Think the biggest thing to remember is that indeed, CJ looked better than JR at about the same time. Getting a little hopped up at the notion of how much better he may become with more game experience under his belt. JR sounds, from all I have heard about him as of late as much the same. I read earlier some Michigan poster commenting that it was his first game in a new system. How long does he have to play before they realize he is not that good. Smart, yes. Tries, in my opinion, to play too smart and to not just go with the flow.
I think Rudock is an above average college quarterback. He put up some pretty good stats last year with average talent around him offensively. However, he has peaked as a QB.
I am confident CJ is already better than Rudock, and he still has a lot of room for improvement. It was never a doubt that CJ had a higher ceiling than Jake, but what was in doubt was exactly at what point CJ would surpass Jake. Last year I think they were pretty close. This year I would be surprised if CJ is not clearly the better QB.
Rudock couldn't of made that throw with a bucket of balls and if all of the Jake fans watched the Michigan/ Utah game you saw throws that weren't different in difficulty and/or result compared to last year. Jake is a manager not a play maker. Cj can make and create plays.
I tend to agree with this, these are two qualities that go a long way in making a decent qb. Throw in not over thinking everything and not being too afraid to try to make some plays and ta da you have the better qb.
I never said he didn't look downfield and it wasn't open. This is very simple.
The guy claimed that multiple times when it wasn't open downfield he tucked it and ran...implying it was something we didn't have in the past.
I asked him to point out some plays where that happened.
He then backtracked and said it happened one time that he could remember.
Why are you rehashing this? I was there, I watched the game, therefore I was curious about all of the examples he was going to bring up.
Jesus, it didn't require notes. You claimed it happened multiple times but apparently can only think of one. If you can only think of one, why did you claim more?
So are you going to make your argument against mine or continue asking me to recall a few plays second for second out of the 70 offensive plays we ran?
If your intention was to catch me unable to remember said few plays, then I guess you win. Have your self-empowerment fix for the day.
Honestly you sound like somebody who vehemently backed JR last year and are still trying to prove to yourself that he's the better QB. Get over it.
Also, stop being so hungover by the "implications." There were none. Every quarterback has to tuck the ball and run it sometimes. My point was simply that the lack of throws downfield weren't a result of CJ not wanting to throw it downfield. No comparison to Rudock.
You made the claim. I was at the game, and was interested in which plays you were going to bring up. Would have made it easier for me to go back and check them out.
Apparently you couldn't, so it doesn't make it easier for me. Why you continue to complain about my simple questioning of your post is beyond me.
Did you only want posts high-fiving yours?
Wait, now this wasn't a comparison to Rudock? In a thread specifically for comparing to him?
"There is concern however with the receivers not creating enough space for cj to hit them on several occasions.I thought cj did an excellent job of not forcing anything and taking what the defense gave him."
That part of the OP was what my second point was addressing. Again, no comparison to JR. It's interesting that you didn't pose some simple questions to the OP about plays where the receivers didn't get separation, but you do question when you feel your boy JR has been knocked.
I "complain," because I've already told you I have a poor memory and can't recall specific plays, that was just something I remember observing at the time of the game. Yet you keep pressing the issue.
Hopefully at this point we're all clear
Come on guys keep arguing, you're gonna end up giving me a record number of posts to one of my threads.
First two starts
Jake Rudock
vs N. Ill L 27-30 37-21-256-1-2 4-20-1
vs Missouri St W 28-14 28-19-193-0-1 7-33-2
65-40-449-1-3 62% 11-53-3
W-L 1-1
C.J. Beathard
at Purdue W 24-10 37-17-245-1-1 8-29
vs Ill State W 31-14 24-15-211-1-0 8-26-2
61-32-456-2-1 53% 16-55-2
W-L 2-0
Jake Rudock
vs N. Ill L 27-30 37-21-256-1-2 4-20-1
vs Missouri St W 28-14 28-19-193-0-1 7-33-2
65-40-449-1-3 62% 11-53-3
W-L 1-1
C.J. Beathard
at Purdue W 24-10 37-17-245-1-1 8-29
vs Ill State W 31-14 24-15-211-1-0 8-26-2
61-32-456-2-1 53% 16-55-2
W-L 2-0
