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Carl Sagan on the Existence of God

It's more proof why atheism leads to madness, IMO.
And, just to be clear, this isn't about atheism or religious. This is about the capacity for critical thought and abstract thinking. Galileo was considered a heretic by the church.

You exhibit a person whose intellect is completely restricted by church doctrine. So, I'd hold off on calling other people crazy if I were you.
 
And, just to be clear, this isn't about atheism or religious. This is about the capacity for critical thought and abstract thinking. Galileo was considered a heretic by the church.

You exhibit a person whose intellect is completely restricted by church doctrine. So, I'd hold off on calling other people crazy if I were you.

This is 100% about atheism.

You exhibit a person with little to no intellect at all, so I regard your judgements as lightly as you regard human life.
 
The Bible provides a blueprint for how to live a better life in this world as well. The purpose of an afterlife is eternal union with God, the reason why we were created.

Without that, one compares human life to insects, as Strum and WWJD in this thread.

I'm pretty sure that atheists like Lenin, Mao, Stalin, Mussolini, Kim Jong Un,, Pol Pot and Evner Hoxha agree.
God inspired me to think that and share it.

I'm not an atheist, either. I'd appreciate it if you would cease to call me an atheist.
 
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This is 100% about atheism.

You exhibit a person with little to no intellect at all, so I regard your judgements as lightly as you regard human life.
I regard human life as precious. But, I'm not as indoctrinated by a single belief system, like you.
 
How so?


I studied philosophy for about 13 years. I'm not a PHd but I've done some reading
If this is even remotely true? Then, religion has ruined you as an intellectual human being. You portray a robot for the church in this entire thread. Either that, or whatever you claim you read as never truly understood!
 
If this is even remotely true? Then, religion has ruined you as an intellectual human being. You portray a robot for the church in this entire thread. Either that, or whatever you claim you read as never truly understood!

I just don't have the same values as you do.

I am basically certain I've read more philosophy than you have; atheist philosophy as well like Nietszche, Schopenhauer, Sartre, Epicurus, Benatar, Cioran, Camus, Ayn Rand and others.

Which philosophers have you read?
 
I just don't have the same values as you do.

I am basically certain I've read more philosophy than you have; atheist philosophy as well like Nietszche, Schopenhauer, Sartre, Epicurus, Benatar, Cioran, Camus, Ayn Rand and others.

Which philosophers have you read?
Reading it is only half the process. You're like someone who memorizes dates in history. You're not fully digesting and empathizing with the subject matter.

You can sit there and claim you've read the philosophies of everyone in history. But, when you share your perspectives, you don't exhibit the qualities of a person who has absorbed them and included them into their own perspectives.

You interact as a mouthpiece for the Catholic Church... that's all. You're the most rigid, totally unaware person-- aside from the Jehovah's Witness-- engaging in this thread. For you, like him, God only exists in the pages of a book written at least 2000 years ago. And, whatever the church tells you it says is the ONLY structure or critical thought you're interested in, or even capable of. If you did read those people's works, you wasted your time.
 
Reading it is only half the process. You're like someone who memorizes dates in history. You're not fully digesting and empathizing with the subject matter.

You can sit there and claim you've read the philosophies of everyone in history. But, when you share your perspectives, you don't exhibit the qualities of a person who has absorbed them and included them into their own perspectives.

You interact as a mouthpiece for the Catholic Church... that's all. You're the most rigid, totally unaware person-- aside from the Jehovah's Witness-- engaging in this thread. For you, like him, God only exists in the pages of a book written at least 2000 years ago. And, whatever the church tells you it says is the ONLY structure or critical thought you're interested in, or even capable of. If you did read those people's works, you wasted your time.

Lol. How would you know anything about philosophy?

You clearly aren't educated in the subject

Which philosophers have you read? Can you name one favorite?
 
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Lol. How would you know anything about philosophy?

You clearly aren't educated in the subject

Which philosophers have you read?
And, you believe you DO know "anything" about philosophy???

Just because you watch a lot of movies doesn't mean you understand the art of film-making! Going to a lot of art museums and seeing paintings doesn't make you an artist.

You've now convinced yourself that you "know more about" philosophy than me because of a list of philosophers you wrote on a message board.
 
And, you believe you DO know "anything" about philosophy???

Just because you watch a lot of movies doesn't mean you understand the art of film-making! Going to a lot of art museums and seeing paintings doesn't make you an artist.

You've now convinced yourself that you "know more about" philosophy than me because of a list of philosophers you wrote on a message board.

I actually took a couple of philosophy classes in undergrad and did fairly well.

You can't even name ONE philosopher you've read yet you believe you're qualified to make judgments?

Have you read ANY philosophy???
 
I actually took a couple of philosophy classes in undergrad and did fairly well.

You can't even name one philosopher you've read yet you believe you're qualified to make judgments?

Have you read ANY philosophy?
LOL... it's amazing. Me writing a list of philosophers is proof I've "read them" to you? Or, even better... YOU writing a list of philosophers is somehow proof that YOU'VE read them?

Of all those you listed, and you claim you've read, you need to read them again. And, when you finish? Read them three more times, each.
 
LOL... it's amazing. Me writing a list of philosophers is proof I've "read them" to you? Or, even better... YOU writing a list of philosophers is somehow proof that YOU'VE read them?

Of all those you listed, and you claim you've read, you need to read them again. And, when you finish? Read them three more times, each.

Wow.

So, then you admit you haven't read any philosophy? It's OK.

It's obvious you haven't.

You should stop making philosophical judgements since your knowledge is so limited.
 
😆😆😆

Wow.
Reading this:

51fRRkP6Y-L._SX404_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

... doesn't count.

Whatever you claim you've read, none of it stuck. I think you're a liar, but there's always confession for a good Catholic.

Your "enemy" is atheists. That much is clear.
 
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Reading this:

51fRRkP6Y-L._SX404_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

... doesn't count.

Whatever you claim you've read, none of it stuck. I think you're a liar, but there's always confession for a good Catholic.

Your "enemy" is atheists. That much is clear.

You are not intelligent. I'm done with you.
 
Reading it is only half the process. You're like someone who memorizes dates in history. You're not fully digesting and empathizing with the subject matter.

You can sit there and claim you've read the philosophies of everyone in history. But, when you share your perspectives, you don't exhibit the qualities of a person who has absorbed them and included them into their own perspectives.

You interact as a mouthpiece for the Catholic Church... that's all. You're the most rigid, totally unaware person-- aside from the Jehovah's Witness-- engaging in this thread. For you, like him, God only exists in the pages of a book written at least 2000 years ago. And, whatever the church tells you it says is the ONLY structure or critical thought you're interested in, or even capable of. If you did read those people's works, you wasted your time.
Because I choose to believe the Bible was inspired and choose to live by its moral code that makes me unaware? Lol ok well here’s where you are - choosing to believe a bunch of omnipresent God is everywhere beliefs is just as crazy to me you believing my belief in the BIble is! You can be as vague as you want because you really don’t have any valid points, nothing to base your beliefs on . Just your own inner self and a bunch of human philosophy which doesn’t mean squat. You’re just pulling stuff out of books or lectures and throwing them against the wall with a bunch of big fancy words trying to prove it makes you somehow an expert on spirituality. Well you can be as vague as you want but I choose to believe the Bible. I believe it is the divinely inspired word of God and I’m proud to defend it! And no I don’t believe God is in the bumblebees I saw this morning. It’s fine if you want to throw the insults out there. Noah was considered crazy too before the flood came …I’m totally used to the bias against Jehovahs witnesses ..Jesus himself said his true followers would be hated without cause.
All I can say to you is good luck with your viewpoint ! Maybe something will come along in your life to make you think twice.
 
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You’re just pulling stuff out of books or lectures and throwing them against the wall with a bunch of big fancy words trying to prove it makes you somehow an expert on spirituality.
LOLOLOL

And, you don't think YOU'VE BEEN DOING THAT???

And, I'm not "trying to prove I'm an expert" on ANYTHING. I don't have an impulse or need to prove one thing to anyone else. Religious people NEED validation! They have to because THEIR GOD NEEDS VALIDATION!

Are you and the Catholic guy a tag-team?
 
LOLOLOL

And, you don't think YOU'VE BEEN DOING THAT???

And, I'm not "trying to prove I'm an expert" on ANYTHING. I don't have an impulse or need to prove one thing to anyone else. Religious people NEED validation! They have to because THEIR GOD NEEDS VALIDATION!

Are you and the Catholic guy a tag-team?
I don’t think God needs validation. I actually think it’s the other way around . You’re too intent on disproving the Bible’s being inspired. So again it comes down to what you choose to put your faith in . You choose to believe human philosophy and lean on your own understanding.
You’re no different than the person who is vehement in defending the Bible. You just choose to ignore the evidence . It’s there .
I refuse however to insult your beliefs . I respect everyone has choice to believe what they want.
 
Lol. How would you know anything about philosophy?

You clearly aren't educated in the subject

Which philosophers have you read? Can you name one favorite?
I have 30 credit hours in the religion and philosophy department at Iowa. Does that count? I mostly read old testament related materials. How do you resolve God's behavior in the Old and New Testaments are drastically different?
 
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I have 30 credit hours in the religion and philosophy department at Iowa. Does that count? I mostly read old testament related materials. How do you resolve God's behavior in the Old and New Testaments are drastically different?

That certainly counts. What did you study at Iowa?

The New Testament is Jesus. That's why it was so different than the Old Testament. He is the fulfillment of everything.
 
You’re too intent on disproving the Bible’s being inspired.
I have NEVER tried to disprove that the Bible was inspired... not once. I have no doubt it was "inspired by God." Just like I have no doubt that these words I am typing, right here, are also "inspired by God." Everything is "inspired" by God.
 
I have 30 credit hours in the religion and philosophy department at Iowa. Does that count? I mostly read old testament related materials. How do you resolve God's behavior in the Old and New Testaments are drastically different?
I have NEVER tried to disprove that the Bible was inspired... not once. I have no doubt it was "inspired by God." Just like I have no doubt that these words I am typing, right here, are also "inspired by God." Everything is "inspired" by God.
See that’s where we disagree . I don’t think me writing this sentence is inspired by God. God is not IN the sunset I will see tonight , or the thunderstorm that I’ll likely see tomorrow ..these are of course evidence of creation by God and the natural forces he put in place . I believe He has a dwelling place in the heavens or spirit realm far above us . The Bible DOES support that belief. But to say God is IN everything and everyone is just not supported with any real facts. That’s a human based philosophy.
Now I do believe that by Holy Spirit or Gods power in action God can see anything and exert his power anywhere, without literally going there or dwelling there. God may see everything from His fixed position in the Heavens but there is nothing to suggest he is present EVERYWHERE .
 
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Wait.

Do you believe that a bee has as much worth as a human being?

You can't truly be this insane. Can you?

Are you saying bees have no worth?

You didn't say that, so why would I ask you that?

Similarly, no one said that a bee has as much worth as a human. So why would you ask that?

This is just a variation on the "oh no you di'n't" response.
 
I believe He has a dwelling place in the heavens or spirit realm far above us .
I'm sure you do. He has a throne and everything, right?

"Far above us?" How far "above" us? You believe in a three-tiered universe, I guess?
 
How do you resolve God's behavior in the Old and New Testaments are drastically different?
The better question to ask is why does it take the Univ of Iowa College of Liberal Arts 30 credit hours to teach you the same thing that your area Sunday School can in literally 1 hour (for free nonetheless)?
 
Are you saying bees have no worth?

You didn't say that, so why would I ask you that?

Similarly, no one said that a bee has as much worth as a human. So why would you ask that?

This is just a variation on the "oh no you di'n't" response.
Where is the official scale that lists all living things in order of their importance.

The more I see the incredible advancements and positive effects of stem-cell research and their impact on improving/treating illnesses and infirmities of human beings, the more I'm convinced that fetal/embryonic tissue is intended to be used to enhance the lives of people who can benefit from it.
 
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See that’s where we disagree . I don’t think me writing this sentence is inspired by God. God is not IN the sunset I will see tonight , or the thunderstorm that I’ll likely see tomorrow ..these are of course evidence of creation by God and the natural forces he put in place . I believe He has a dwelling place in the heavens or spirit realm far above us . The Bible DOES support that belief. But to say God is IN everything and everyone is just not supported with any real facts. That’s a human based philosophy.
Now I do believe that by Holy Spirit or Gods power in action God can see anything and exert his power anywhere, without literally going there or dwelling there. God may see everything from His fixed position in the Heavens but there is nothing to suggest he is present EVERYWHERE .
The “far above us” is more of an Old Testament notion. Jesus seems to dispel that. In some sense maybe it doesn’t matter, the kingdom of God could be in your bathroom closet and unless you are spiritually reborn you won’t see it.
 
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The better question to ask is why does it take the Univ of Iowa College of Liberal Arts 30 credit hours to teach you the same thing that your area Sunday School can in literally 1 hour (for free nonetheless)?

Nah. Most religious work treat the Bible as a scholarly article and not the word of God. Many of the religion classes I took were on the development of Eastern religions and their impact on culture in India, China, and Japan as well as the impact of religion on Jews in the Holocaust. Hardly Sunday school fare.
 
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I have 30 credit hours in the religion and philosophy department at Iowa. Does that count? I mostly read old testament related materials. How do you resolve God's behavior in the Old and New Testaments are drastically different?
I’m not sure it has to be resolved. Some Old Testament stories were believed to have been passed down verbally for generations before even being written down. There were multiple authors, like 40 or more, over hundreds of years or millennia. There are like 20 versions of each verse. Some of it was probably misinterpreted or altered or who knows what along the way. You don’t have to believe the whole Bible is Divinely inspired to believe parts are. I don’t think you can point to some obscure passages and determine the whole must be untrue. In practice, the good parts (people intuitively know I believe) are the moral fabric of western civilization and the obscure parts have been disregarded.
 
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