EXACTLY!!! You get it! The word is irrelevant!
This experience transcends language! It's beyond words!
Carl Sagan on the Existence of God
- Thread starter What Would Jesus Do?
- Start date
This experience transcends language! It's beyond words!
Reading pessimistic philosophers like Arthur Schopenhauer and Albert Camus helped bring me to Christianity.
They wrote about how bad this world is and I agree but think they're too optimistic about the next life and the possibility of an even worse place in Hell.
What religion "I am?" I'd say, "I'm not a religion." Check your grammar, or it makes me question whether or not you actually think the way you write.
But, No, I do not belong to any organized religion. However, I do enjoy learning about the various religious mythologies. I was born into a very Protestant family, with deep beliefs and structure in some smaller Protestant denominations. But, as I grew up and realized how much more there was, I became aware of how abundantly-obvious it is that there is no such thing as only ONE "right way." And, I realized that God is so much more than anything a religion could EVER hop to successfully try and define by its restrictions. Organized religions have their place, I guess, but I don't, personally subscribe to any of them, exclusively. They have served their purpose, I think, and are now mostly obsolete and holding us back.
However, I am always eagerly reading and generally realizing how everything is what it is. It's an awesome discovery. I'm extremely grateful for what I learned as a child. I am somewhat resentful of the fear-based aspects of it, but not as much as I once was.
Organized religion is too much like politics. It's too tribal and too exclusive, for me. They seem to do more to divide people than bring them together. To put it in very simplistic terms, that you will easily understand, since you are steeped in an archaic belief system, and have one of the most naive and simplistic understandings of... everything. I sort of toy with a fantasy theory that- whatever "Satan" is, Satan fervently created and uses religions to divide and pull religious-driven people away from God. It's more of a joke, but I believe it kinda makes sense. Of course, I don't even believe in a BEING that is Satan. The idea of a part-man, part-goat, part-reptile "thing" that traipses around the landscape- invisible- whispering to people to do "bad things", is pretty absurd. But... since you do believe in the mythology, in those terms, I'm simply explaining a goofy theory I have, based on how I've observed religions and their need for supremacy. I guess Satan could exist, like everything else in religious liturgy... as a METAPHOR!
It's interesting because, two of my very closest friends are "cradle Catholics", and they're incredible people when it comes to discussing religion, faith, the origin of the universe, etc.. They go to mass EVERY Sunday. But, when we talk, most people would think "these people are atheists." The mother has shared MANY books about all kinds of different spiritual philosophies and belief systems. They both have PhD's and are very secular. But, they're still Catholc! When the three of us get together, it's what I consider to be "having church." The religion, for them, is obsolete and archaic, but, somehow, it's a conduit to whatever God is for them. But, they don't take it literally. They remind me of Jewish people that I know. I've NEVER met a Jewish person who was as immersed in their religious dogmas as most Christians I know. Christians use it as their identity! They NEED it to make sense in every way, and it has to apply, literally, to every aspect of their existence. The Jewish people that I've ever known were all like "Yeah, I'm Jewish, but I don't let it stop me from being a human being!" Some of the older Catholics I know are like that. They don't take it too seriously. They don't believe in Hell and the myriad of other contrivances. Most fervent Christians that I know are simply going through the motions to avoid Hell. What a sad motivation!
Sorry for the way-way-too-long answer.
Who do you and your Christian friends think Jesus was?
And Satan is real. I've had personal experiences. Just a malevolent feeling combined with moving doors.
I've already covered this with you. And, you'd need to ask them who they "think he WAS." Your simplistic angles are so tiresome. What difference does it make who he WAS??? You can't even keep your liturgy on-point. He IS risen! Remember? He IS, not WAS.
I'm presently reading a book- The Universal Christ- and it offers some interesting points about how Jesus was just a man and the CHRIST part is the universal aspect. Jesus is in everything, always has and always was and always will be. But, it transcends human consciousness, or human ability to articulate... entirely. And, THANK GOD FOR THAT!
A malevolent feeling is universal. If every malevolent feeling is Satan, then Satan is a metaphor, not a constant "thing."
Satan is real . Jesus had a discussion with him after his baptism ..Jesus didn’t offer all the kingdoms of the world to himself for an act of worship.
God had a discussion with Satan in the book of Job . (Job chapter 2) The Bible identifies the world lying in the power of the wicked one .
(1John 5:19)
Also the imaginary description of Satan is ridiculous. By all accounts it’s likely Satan is in fact a beautiful Angel, possibly a very high ranking Angel before he led the rebellion in Eden.
That’s fine and it is well worth scholary review. My point is that it seems the U of I took far too long to teach you the entire purpose of God’s plan in the Bible and if you left the course without that single takeaway, did you really learn anything about it (again from a scholarly point of view)?
Whereas you could go down the street to a church for free and a they would show a single verse from scripture that sums it all up in a few seconds. Could have saved you a ton of time and money.
Wait for it...
All accounts???
High RANKING angel?
"He" led the rebellion? More male-dominated perspective. I bet Satan- the most beautiful angel- had the biggest angel penis!
Thanks for that "non-imaginary" account of Satan.
See my response regarding gender in an earlier post. Not taken literally of course as it’s a spirit creature again . However if you wanted to attach gender to demons you have those angels that materialized in human male form in Noah’s day. It does in fact say they took human wives for themselves and produced demon/human hybrid offspring known as the Nephilim. Of course before materializing you are correct there is no literal word on specific gender as regards their existence as spirit beings.
My main point was to dispute the archaic belief that Satan is some sort of Mid-evil mythological goat /man with horn and a pitchfork . The Bible describes him as turning himself into an angle of light
2nd Corinthians 11:14- And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps disguising himself as an angel of light.
He is real no doubt by his interactions with God and Christ. Jesus himself called him the ruler of this world …
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You mean when God massacred Job's entire family and all his servants in order to win a bet? Yeah, no offense, but that's not a "god "worthy of worship. That's a vain, petty, petulant child.
It just occurred to me, God is very Trump-like, isn’t he? Petty, vindictive, requires constant praise and fawning. No wonder Evangelicals are drawn to the Orange One.
God had nothing to do with the disaster brought upon Job. Have you even ever read that account. Pretty clear Satan was the one responsible . God did not prevent the calamities he experienced but WAS NOT responsible for Jobs suffering !
Job 2:6,7-Then Jehovah said to Satan: “Look! He is in your hand! Only do not take his life!” 7 So Satan went out from the presence of Jehovah and struck Job with painful boils from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head.
This of course supports what James said about God in James 1:13-When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone.
Don’t just post anything without maybe having some actual facts. Course I’m sure you have some support to back up your belief God was responsible? Course you do….
So God delivers Job to Satan for torment but he isn't responsible for anything that happens to Job. Everything Job has is in your hands...but don't hurt Job. That's coming directly from your "god". A direct quote. Great "god" you have there.
You posted the actual facts. Thanks.
Maybe if you bothered to see how the account ends I assure you it ended with Job being rewarded for his endurance and proving the devil a liar!
Job ended up with a large family , more wealth , and a long life . Allowing a trial is NOT THE SAME AS BEING THE CAUSE! I get it you don’t believe in God! But don’t spew crap that you obviously know nothing about
How in the hell does that make up for the massacre of his entire original family? So sorry, Job, about allowing the murders of everyone you loved...here are some replacements. Thanks for your service.
JFC, do you read what you type before you post?? And FTR, I don't believe in YOUR "god". As I said, that piece of crap isn't worthy of the title much less worship.
I sure do read it ! And just because I don’t share your godless viewpoint doesn’t make it wrong ! I’m sure we all jumped out of the ocean as little simple cell organisms and came from apes too right? Lol
Maybe or maybe there isa Reason you don’t believe in God but if you bothered to look into creation and all the complexity maybe you might start to think different . I’m sure to you it was all blind chance 😂😂 .
Maybe ask yourself if you think the earth and all life just came from a Big Bang, then where did the energy for that to happen come from?
Im sure you have an answer for that too?
Job’s mortal life is a tiny blip in the span of eternity. God is always teaching His people in the Bible. He is preparing people for eternity. Non-believers think this mortal life is all there is.
Until you understand what eternity means, the Bible will never make sense.
This is true. Jobs life was important however. He proved The devil a liar. Satan implied that Job and by extension all mankind would abandon God in the face of adversity and trial . That we only serve Cod for the benefits.
Job faithfully endured and God rewarded him with a beautiful life then , and will reward him when he inherits the earth after being resurrected….
Lol...not a single word of that explains why you worship a god who would encourage the massacre of an entire household save one to satisfy a bet. And stop saying others don't believe in God because they refuse to ascribe to your demented god creation. It makes you a liar and your god creation doesn't like liars. It's right there in the Bible.
Got it. Our mortal lives are so insignificant to your god that the wholesale massacre of his creation means nothing to him. Job's sons and daughters were just trash to be destroyed and replaced. And all so your god could "own" Satan.
It would be really helpful...not a great improvement but better...if you abandoned the idea that the Bible is literally true. Job as some kind of allegory might work. A literal psychopathic god, however, isn't a good look.
Just do what I do. Pray to God to open your heart and mind and for guidance as you read His word, then His word is no longer a “wholesale massacre” and it becomes wholesale freedom, love, & redemption!
Wow... that's some awesome "morality"...
Go into a Walmart with an AR-15, a few full clips, and start spraying bullets of freedom, love and redemption!!!
Priceless . You call me a liar according to a book you don’t believe in. lol 😂. And if you are not smart enough to look around the natural world and universe and see intelligent design I don’t know what to tell you.
I'm really enjoying this thread. Appreciate all the perspectives. Thank you everyone.
Your god turned an entire household over to Satan to be slaughtered. And did it to "prove" that Satan was a liar? The dude is supposed to be GOD...why not just My Cousin Vinny, Satan?
"Everything that guy just said is bullshit! Thank you."
You take his word without reservation for everything else...why was this different? Who was he "proving" it to? Himself? Satan? There's not one ounce of freedom, love, or redemption in that story.
I wondered if you were still lurking there BlackNGold….😉 nice to see ya !
I didn't call you a liar. I said if you continue to misrepresent the beliefs of others - as you have done continuously - you would be a liar. That's a simple truth. You can accuse others of not believing in your god but you can't state others don't believe in their own version of god. Spinosa postulated a nature-based god and would argue that your god was your own created myth. Yet he believed in a creator god. You would dismiss him as an atheist. That's what makes you a liar...not that I point it out.
How many Americans do you think will be saved?
Considering how many Americans reject God, I think it will be 50/50...at best.
So you believe Jesus physically resurrected from the dead, as His apostles believed?
I don't think you answered that. If you did, I missed it.
Trump is diabolical. I pretty much guarantee it. He's more like the devil.
God shows a pattern in the Bible of giving people many, many chances. From what I have read and learned over the years is that God will reveal Himself and pour out His judgement on the Earth. All alive and all raised will be given a chance to turn towards God. God is hope, therefore I am hopeful many more will turn towards Him. However, the Bible says that even during the Revelation, there will be many who will still reject Him.
Lol ok. Good evening to you sir . Pretty clear we’re gonna have to agree to disagree
I disagree and that’s ok. I’ve found much hope and love from that story. I see a man who has every reason not to love be capable of love. That is special and that is the kind of hope and love God is trying to teach us. If you’re open to it. Jesus exemplified the same towards the Jews and Romans that scorned and scoured Him. That’s the kind of love that will save this world. We have God size problems that need God size love & hope.
I have no problem with that. Just quit pretending that it's your way or the hellway and you get no complaints from me. Believe whatever you like and have the grace to understand you might be wrong rather than everyone else.
And I see the OT god once again rewarding unwavering belief with wealth and health. A narrative that gets tossed in the shitter when Jesus comes on the scene. The whole "your reward comes in the next life" is a direct repudiation of Job's story. Like I said...believe whatever you like but don't pretend the Job story doesn't say what it clearly says about your god.
The Apostles asked Jesus "will many be saved?" and He responded by saying "enter through the narrow gate."
This may mean He was saying few get to Heaven.
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