What makes you say they ‘work fairly well’? Some new actual Covid case comparison data?
CDC Mask Mandate Study... Debunked
- Thread starter coloradonoles
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What makes you say they ‘work fairly well’? Some new actual Covid case comparison data?
Those same experts that it flies in the face of had a different opinion a year ago. The WHO, CDC, and even Fauci recommended against wearing masks, and not just to preserve masks for health care workers. That's well documented. Everyone accepted it. Then, when the recommendations changed, most people accepted that (outside of the anti-mask group, of course). That means people understood that experts could be wrong.
What if we go back and do more studies, and find out there's something in between, i.e., only certain masks are truly effective, or there are other conditions that render even the best masks ineffective for most people, or that transmission other than large droplets has been severely underestimated? How many people are going to be willing to acknowledge they were wrong? Some will say, "we have new information, and we have to adapt". A lot will simply dismiss the new information because it doesn't conform to their embedded beliefs, especially if they've been vocal.
The question has been asked here by people who aren't anti-mask. How does the virus spread in environments where mask usage, and other mitigations, are universal? For example, a couple of dozen residents of nursing homes in NY died in January 2021. The facility was locked down. The attendants and other staff were double masked. They sanitized their hands constantly. Nobody seems to have an answer. Surely some expert would have an answer, right?
You might assume I'm anti-mask. I'm not. I wear a mask. The difference with me is I'm not totally invested in the notion that masks are as effective as we've been led to believe. They certainly offer some protection. Just like most people, I cringe if someone around me starts coughing or sneezing and they aren't wearing a mask. But think about this - how many people take off their mask and immediately sanitize their hands? I try to do that, but I don't always do it. I'd wager less than half the people do that much at all. So what happens to all the virus stuck on the outside of the mask? It gets on people's hands, and in short order, gets on people's faces. It doesn't take any expertise to figure that out.
Some of these things are pointed out in the article. Ironically, before the CDC changed their mask guidance, they had a web page that pointed out about a dozen reasons why wearing a mask might be worse than not wearing a mask. The link was posted here, but obviously the page is long gone.
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“...we found no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks”
“...reported no major difference in the risk for laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infection in the control or mask group”
“overall reduction in ILI or laboratory-confirmed influenza cases in the face mask group was not significant in either studies”
“None of the household studies reported a significant reduction in secondary laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the face mask group”
“There is limited evidence for their effectiveness in preventing influenza virus transmission”
Science!
“...reported no major difference in the risk for laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infection in the control or mask group”
“overall reduction in ILI or laboratory-confirmed influenza cases in the face mask group was not significant in either studies”
“None of the household studies reported a significant reduction in secondary laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the face mask group”
“There is limited evidence for their effectiveness in preventing influenza virus transmission”
Science!
I've had 12 surgeries, and I wouldn't do that.
You know I wear a mask.
That said, that doesn't mean it's necessary. I'm open to other ideas. Are you?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4480558/
https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/65/9/1589/3858163
https://eprints.qut.edu.au/34283/1/c34283.pdf
http://blog.chrismcculloh.com/do-we-really-need-masks-and-caps-in-the-or
https://europepmc.org/article/med/1853618
What do you mean? Either the masks work or they don’t. Why would they suddenly work over an open cavity?
If you are struggling to understand my point, perhaps you should read the previous posts that were made that caused me to ask that question.
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I didn't see that assumption anywhere in the article. That said, there was discussions about several studies. Most of the discussion was about mask mandates; not mask or no mask. That's inferred, but not assumed. It could also be inferred that actual mask usage didn't vary much in places where it was mandated compared to where it wasn't.
I'm not delving into his Gish Gallop to tease it out. He's already discredited himsefl as an arbiter of anything related to Covid with his behavior at HHS. He's an idiot who advocated for spreading Covid as widely and as quickly as possible. YOU believe him until you're lying on the table in a room full of people who will be poking into your guts. Do masks only work then? Yes or no?
Another study (from before things were so political):
“Masks have not been demonstrated to have a degree of efficiency that would warrant their compulsory application for the checking of epidemics.”
The American Journal of Public Health (AJPH) from the American Public Health Association (APHA) publications
American Journal of Public Health (AJPH) from the American Public Health Association (APHA)
ajph.aphapublications.org
Face masks are worn by all operating room personnel when treating patients susceptible to infections as in neurosurgery, vascular, and orthopedic procedures involving implants and regional anesthesia procedures (e.g. , spinal or epidural). Face masks are also used to protect staff from contamination. All personnel wear face masks when taking care of trauma patients or patients with blood-borne infections.
Is that supposed to bolster your point?
However, when these interventions were initiated within 36 hours of symptom onset, face masks plus hand hygiene reduced risk of transmission by a very significant 67%.
This doesn't seem to do much for you, either.
You must have missed some other key parts.
“WHEN introduced a century ago, the purpose of the surgical facemask was to provide protection for the patient from surgical wound infections. But is there evidence that face masks prevent wound infections? A recent review concluded that it is not clear whether face masks prevent surgical wound infections,1and the scientific evidence for this practice is weak and insufficient.1,2”
“WHEN introduced a century ago, the purpose of the surgical facemask was to provide protection for the patient from surgical wound infections. But is there evidence that face masks prevent wound infections? A recent review concluded that it is not clear whether face masks prevent surgical wound infections,1and the scientific evidence for this practice is weak and insufficient.1,2”
“Counts were near pre-wear level in about two hours irrespective of the type of mask. There was no significant difference between cotton fabric and two ply disposable masks. Face masks significantly decreased bacterial dispersal initially but became almost ineffective after two hours of use.”
A
anon_89hvcc2uyzmki
Guest
Yes because open cavity surgery that lasts hours is the same as passing by people in the office or at the grocery store.
You people crack me up.
Why has the flu completely gone away??
Why has the flu completely gone away??
You know I make that same argument to the cop when I'm speeding. hasn't worked yet
social distancing, masks, schools/works still closed
Haven't we already been over this?
Yes.
And his advocacy of the "Swedish model" to get to herd immunity through infections has been thoroughly debunked. By Sweden, itself.
It is LITERALLY the same mechanism, and same effect you see working.
Then you need help with comprehension, or are simply being obtuse. Or you just like to argue with me.
You might be the dumbest fugger who can still manage to work a phone.
Wait, you can’t bring this stuff up. Joe is allergic to data that doesnt support his preconceived ideas.
One of the hospItals in a major metro area in my health system in Iowa recently reported a grand total of 6 patients in the hospital for COVID. 6. None of which are in the ICU.
This is one month after the mask mandate was lifted. This isn’t to take to task the idea of masks being helpful. This is to take to task the idea that the mandate is the key. As we have recently been told as it relates to Texas and Mississippi.
As you have demonstrated here. Surgical mask aren’t worn in surgery to prevent the transmission of viruses. But nice try. Yeah and walking around in public is exactly like an open abdomen, chest or knee. Fail.
Edit: I see now @Pinehawk and others posted similar already. Apologies but I’ll leave mine here to add emphasis to his point. Which is dead on.
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if you were treating a covid patient would you wear a mask?
Pre vaccine I’d mask the patient and mine yes. And the rest of my PPE. And an N95 if aerosol generating procedures.
Now? Post vaccine? I’d mask the patient and I wear one because I’m required to. If I had the option, probably not. See my prior post. I’m not kidding when I say, I struggle even to have a conversation with patients because of the runny nose and sneezing I deal with from the mask. it’s really really hard to tolerate for me. I doubt most people,are super sympathetic but the symptoms I have can make it hard to do my job like Id like to. Talking with patients etc. that seems to worsen my symptoms more so than simply wearing it and breathing. Csb
I hope some of you understand that for some masks will be permanent for them. During coming flu seasons these people won't rest until everyone has to wear a mask.
This. We saw one like ours last week and my 6 year old wanted to pick it up because he was sure it was ours.
Had to explain that we might not be the only ones with masks from Costco...
Face masks: what the data say
The science supports that face coverings are saving lives during the coronavirus pandemic, and yet the debate trundles on. How much evidence is enough?
Here's a sampling...
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsnano.0c03252
Filtration efficiencies of the hybrids (such as cotton–silk, cotton–chiffon, cotton–flannel) was >80% (for particles <300 nm) and >90% (for particles >300 nm). We speculate that the enhanced performance of the hybrids is likely due to the combined effect of mechanical and electrostatic-based filtration. Cotton, the most widely used material for cloth masks performs better at higher weave densities (i.e., thread count) and can make a significant difference in filtration efficiencies
https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118
The preponderance of evidence indicates that mask wearing reduces transmissibility per contact by reducing transmission of infected respiratory particles in both laboratory and clinical contexts. Public mask wearing is most effective at reducing spread of the virus when compliance is high.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.22.20109231v5
In a multivariable analysis of 196 countries, the duration of infection in the country, and the proportion of the population 60 years of age or older were positively associated with per-capita mortality, while duration of mask-wearing by the public was negatively associated with mortality (all p<0.001).
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6928e2.htm?s_cid=mm6928e2_w
Among 139 clients exposed to two symptomatic hair stylists with confirmed COVID-19 while both the stylists and the clients wore face masks, no symptomatic secondary cases were reported; among 67 clients tested for SARS-CoV-2, all test results were negative. Adherence to the community’s and company’s face-covering policy likely mitigated spread of SARS-CoV-2.
https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818
Mandating face mask use in public is associated with a decline in the daily COVID-19 growth rate by 0.9, 1.1, 1.4, 1.7, and 2.0 percentage points in 1–5, 6–10, 11–15, 16–20, and 21 or more days after state face mask orders were signed, respectively. Estimates suggest that as a result of the implementation of these mandates, more than 200,000 COVID-19 cases were averted by May 22, 2020. The findings suggest that requiring face mask use in public could help in mitigating the spread of COVID-19.
https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/71/16/2139/5848814
SARS-CoV-2 could be transmitted by respiratory droplets or airborne droplet nuclei which could be reduced by surgical mask partition in the hamster model. This is the first in vivo experimental evidence to support the possible benefit of surgical mask in prevention of COVID-19 transmission, especially when masks were worn by infected individuals.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11606-020-06067-8
Masks, depending on the material and design, filter out a majority of viral particles, but not all.28 The theory that exposure to a lower inoculum or dose of any virus (whether respiratory, gastrointestinal or sexually transmitted) can make subsequent illness far less likely to be severe12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27 has been propounded for some time. Indeed, the concept of the 50% lethal dose (LD50), the virus dose at which 50% of exposed hosts die, determined via controlled experiments in which a range of exposure doses are administered to animals to calculate a dose-mortality curve, was first described in 1938.18 Other studies have examined the LD50—or the dose that leads to severe disease or death—for a variety of viruses in hosts or animal models.17, 21, 29,30,31,32,33,34
Make sure you check all the citations in that one.
This is what I've got. Tell me what they got wrong.
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Perhaps you would be able to identify the states with mandates and the states without... should be obvious.
Hint: They are in a random order so don't guess alphabetical order...
