Cleveland could yield Gable's record falling to Cael.

[FrontHeadlock2]

Cael is no different than Dan Gable. They both left their schools to coach elsewhere. But it was okay for Gable because he was a star and was great at Iowa. Well, Sanderson was also a star and quickly grew to become a star coach.

Of course, the claims now for success are that he is in fertile recruiting grounds and that is how he does it. Be for real! In Dan Gable's run of Nattys, the fertile grounds were the midwest. Iowa, Ok St, and Ok became the dominant teams. That's where the recruits came from Even as such, each pulled a few stud kids from other area just as PSU has recently done. (Texas, Minny, Calif. Ind) for example.

I guess all I'm asking is try to be objective. I know there are many that are objective and can respect PSU's recent successes. I just can not figure out the hate that is often spewed here; it's even more confusing because most posters here truly follow and understand wrestling. Did I dislike Dan Gable for what he produced? As an opponent, of course. Did I understand the value of his contributions to wrestling? Without a doubt.

When it come to the promotion of wrestling, DG, TB and CS are on the same team. Why is that so hard to accept?

And as I have said on previous posts, I have been to Iowa for 36 straight years to visit the in-laws (sadly now only 1) as my wife is an Iowa grad. Love the friendly people there.
You might be surprised that people in PA are friendly, too. Healthy competition can be good.

Lol at you comparing the Gable and Sanderson situations. They aren't remotely analogous aside frome a superficial comparison.

Cael absolutely screwed his old coach and alma mater, which by the way has never been the same. Think he cares?

Add in a handful of other unsavory dealings by Cael, and it's pretty obvious what a scumbag he is.

Same team for the promotion of wrestling? I wouldn't take Cael on my team if you paid me. I wouldn't want him to be my club coach, let alone my college coach or to speak for the sport.

 

[Azchief32]

I guess all I'm asking is try to be objective. I know there are many that are objective and can respect PSU's recent successes. I just can not figure out the hate that is often spewed here; it's even more confusing because most posters here truly follow and understand wrestling. Did I dislike Dan Gable for what he produced? As an opponent, of course. Did I understand the value of his contributions to wrestling? Without a doubt.

Hate is a pretty strong word. There are plenty of objective people on this board. Many threads about the greatness of some of your wrestlers. So much so that even I, who have been pretty complimentary to PSU kind of get sick of it.

An objective person would admit that when you start off with 9/10 #1 weight class guys, you are starting with a pretty damn good hand. This is what most Iowa fans point out. He has more to work with at PSU than he did at Iowa State and its not even close. What are the difference situations between the two when Cael was at ISU and PSU? He was still freaking Cael Sanderson at ISU...top guys knew he was at ISU and knew that if they went there, they would be coached by them. So did Cael make a journey to the desert ala Jim Morrison on a hit of acid and come back with the solutions to it all?

As to the other stuff, #slushfund etc...I would ask you to objectively look at how many PSU douchebags and trolls we get in here. It's not about your guys or really even about your coach...it's about you (in the collective sense). You want hate? Look on BWI, the Mat etc...Part victory celebration and part the need to shove it in Iowa fans faces and rub it in and I don't know which one takes more space over there. Look at posts about Gilman, Brands and reporting on what we post over here. Hell...they are even reporting "Likes" over there right now. As in "Such and such poster Liked a post calling Cael a scumbag."

Is there jealousy? Heck yes. Is there excuse making? Absolutely. We're fans...refs don't call stalling, and the winner gets all the calls. Aren't you guys still pissed at Dean Heil? But a lot of this is reactionary, knee jerk comebacks...unless you objectively think Iowa fans should just lay down and let others rag our team and coaches. I welcome some of your guy's posts over here but this forum is for Iowa wrestling...not complaining about a few posters hating on Cael. Cael is a great coach and I'm sure he sleeps just fine at night.

 

[FrontHeadlock2]

Hell...they are even reporting "Likes" over there right now. As in "Such and such poster Liked a post calling Cael a scumbag."

Haha, is that true? Very sad!

 

[Azchief32]

Haha, is that true? Very sad!

Yes. I regularly post over there but not going near it for awhile. Too bad...wanted to say congrats for a helluva show their guys put on last night. For all the PSU guys like Goldbanger etc....wish we had the time to link up and have that beer. Really wanted to see that damn outfit...pics would be great.

 

[jvclark]

Cael is no different than Dan Gable. They both left their schools to coach elsewhere. But it was okay for Gable because he was a star and was great at Iowa. Well, Sanderson was also a star and quickly grew to become a star coach.

Of course, the claims now for success are that he is in fertile recruiting grounds and that is how he does it. Be for real! In Dan Gable's run of Nattys, the fertile grounds were the midwest. Iowa, Ok St, and Ok became the dominant teams. That's where the recruits came from Even as such, each pulled a few stud kids from other area just as PSU has recently done. (Texas, Minny, Calif. Ind) for example.

I guess all I'm asking is try to be objective. I know there are many that are objective and can respect PSU's recent successes. I just can not figure out the hate that is often spewed here; it's even more confusing because most posters here truly follow and understand wrestling. Did I dislike Dan Gable for what he produced? As an opponent, of course. Did I understand the value of his contributions to wrestling? Without a doubt.

When it come to the promotion of wrestling, DG, TB and CS are on the same team. Why is that so hard to accept?

And as I have said on previous posts, I have been to Iowa for 36 straight years to visit the in-laws (sadly now only 1) as my wife is an Iowa grad. Love the friendly people there.
You might be surprised that people in PA are friendly, too. Healthy competition can be good.

You make some good points. Chief beat me to the punch in the Gable/Cael situations on how they left.

The other area where you are still wrong is the recruiting area. Sure Gable(and now brands) got the key Iowa high school kids. No doubt. But I can probably find 20 KEY kids to Gables successful years that were out of state. Randy Lewis, the Steiner brothers & Lincoln mcilravy from the dakotas, the Kistlers from Cali, the Heffernans and Mike Deanna from Ohio, the Trizzino brothers and the Williams from Illinois, the Banachs from New York, Chris Campbell from New Jersey, Rico Chiparelli from Maryland(?). I can go on if you need. Was Gable winning titles with kids mostly from Iowa? Maybe he could have, but I doubt it.

I hope my point is clear, if one can't see the relevance here maybe they never will.

Now you can say that Cael doesn't win titles from just PA kids. You are right. But the difference is this: he could.

It's like people have been saying about Texas having a recruiting advantage unlike any other school in football. Well no state in the country produces more college all Americans than PA. It makes pretty good sense

One needs to ask oneself. Why in the hell would Cael leave ISU, where he was a legend, where he "was" ISU Wrestling, to go to PSU in the first place? A lesser program at the time? He wasn't stupid. It's because of the talent around the school.

 

[GoHawks2009]

Cool. The Trump effect. Just say it. Truth don't mean squat.

So what you're saying is you're okay with Penn State cheating, and that it is Trump's fault?................Figures, I guess.

Btw, HROT is just down the hall, bro, if you need to whine some more about politics. I'll stay here and make fun of Penn State wrestling while you go and air whatever political grievances you still need to about Trump and Clinton and whatever side of the political spectrum you have a problem with today. But just know I. dont. give. aaaaaa F***.......and anything you have to say about that has already been said before. Old news.

Friends? Good.

 

[Cali_Nittany]

Yes. I regularly post over there but not going near it for awhile. Too bad...wanted to say congrats for a helluva show their guys put on last night. For all the PSU guys like Goldbanger etc....wish we had the time to link up and have that beer. Really wanted to see that damn outfit...pics would be great.

Lots of winning combined with lots of drinking makes us even more obnoxious (me included) than usual. Anyway, you've mentioned it in the past, it's a new money vs old money sort of thing.

 

[Onceafish]

The way Carl's doing it with his never ending roster of elite of the elite recruits degrades the accomplishments by a lot for me.
He'd have a lot more respect from me if he did it with several mid tier guys in there.

Build the best program in the country. Attract the best recruits in the country. Then turn them away in favor of some "mid tier" recruits in order to win Sandor's respect.

I think that will be phase 2 of the dynasty.

 

[hawkssox1]

Never count your chickens until the eggs are hatched.

I need to remember that one.

 

[PSU197276]

Hate is a pretty strong word. There are plenty of objective people on this board. Many threads about the greatness of some of your wrestlers. So much so that even I, who have been pretty complimentary to PSU kind of get sick of it.

An objective person would admit that when you start off with 9/10 #1 weight class guys, you are starting with a pretty damn good hand. This is what most Iowa fans point out. He has more to work with at PSU than he did at Iowa State and its not even close. What are the difference situations between the two when Cael was at ISU and PSU? He was still freaking Cael Sanderson at ISU...top guys knew he was at ISU and knew that if they went there, they would be coached by them. So did Cael make a journey to the desert ala Jim Morrison on a hit of acid and come back with the solutions to it all?

As to the other stuff, #slushfund etc...I would ask you to objectively look at how many PSU douchebags and trolls we get in here. It's not about your guys or really even about your coach...it's about you (in the collective sense). You want hate? Look on BWI, the Mat etc...Part victory celebration and part the need to shove it in Iowa fans faces and rub it in and I don't know which one takes more space over there. Look at posts about Gilman, Brands and reporting on what we post over here. Hell...they are even reporting "Likes" over there right now. As in "Such and such poster Liked a post calling Cael a scumbag."

Is there jealousy? Heck yes. Is there excuse making? Absolutely. We're fans...refs don't call stalling, and the winner gets all the calls. Aren't you guys still pissed at Dean Heil? But a lot of this is reactionary, knee jerk comebacks...unless you objectively think Iowa fans should just lay down and let others rag our team and coaches. I welcome some of your guy's posts over here but this forum is for Iowa wrestling...not complaining about a few posters hating on Cael. Cael is a great coach and I'm sure he sleeps just fine at night.

Thank you and well put. I don't visit BWI because of the head cases there. I prefer FOS's On the Mat forum. Far more reasonable and objective posters. Everyone is welcome to visit.

 

[snotknockerhawk]

Cael is no different than Dan Gable. They both left their schools to coach elsewhere. But it was okay for Gable because he was a star and was great at Iowa. Well, Sanderson was also a star and quickly grew to become a star coach.

Of course, the claims now for success are that he is in fertile recruiting grounds and that is how he does it. Be for real! In Dan Gable's run of Nattys, the fertile grounds were the midwest. Iowa, Ok St, and Ok became the dominant teams. That's where the recruits came from Even as such, each pulled a few stud kids from other area just as PSU has recently done. (Texas, Minny, Calif. Ind) for example.

I guess all I'm asking is try to be objective. I know there are many that are objective and can respect PSU's recent successes. I just can not figure out the hate that is often spewed here; it's even more confusing because most posters here truly follow and understand wrestling. Did I dislike Dan Gable for what he produced? As an opponent, of course. Did I understand the value of his contributions to wrestling? Without a doubt.

When it come to the promotion of wrestling, DG, TB and CS are on the same team. Why is that so hard to accept?

And as I have said on previous posts, I have been to Iowa for 36 straight years to visit the in-laws (sadly now only 1) as my wife is an Iowa grad. Love the friendly people there.
You might be surprised that people in PA are friendly, too. Healthy competition can be good.

Maybe its because of all your d***head fans coming over here to stir the pot and rub it in. Go back to your own board!

 

[rossel 33]

Cael's situation is very different than Gable. ISU had a HOF coach in Nichols who wasn't going anywhere. Iowa got Gable with the understanding he would take over soon.

ISU pushed a HOF coach out of ISU to make Cael the head coach. He was given the job at his alma mater with guys he recruited as an assistant and did well there. Tom Brands came back to Iowa and won titles. Cael went to PSU. These are the facts.

----

Exactly right.

The old canard about Cael doing what Gable did is pure horse-shit.

ISU had Harold Nichols as head coach and Dale Anderson as assistant coach. They weren't leaving. The only thing ISU offered to Gable was that of a non paid volunteer.

Iowa (Kurdelmeier) was more visionary and offered Gable a paid position as ass't coach, and soon stepped down (2 or 3 years later), allowing Gable to become head coach.

ISU, fearing the repeat of losing yet another alumnus wrestling great - Cael, forced Bobby Douglas out and made Cael head coach. 3 years later he left ISU, taking his brother Cyler, and recruits David Taylor and Matt Brown with him.

Cael - leaves ISU after ISU canned their head coach to give it to Cael, complete with a 6 figure salary. PSU offered Cael even more (2011 The Harrisburg (Pa.) Patriot-News reported last November that Penn State has paid coach Cael Sanderson as much as $500,000.)

Gable - offered nothing to Gable other than a non paying volunteer position.

See the difference?

 

[GOLDBANGER]

Yes. I regularly post over there but not going near it for awhile. Too bad...wanted to say congrats for a helluva show their guys put on last night. For all the PSU guys like Goldbanger etc....wish we had the time to link up and have that beer. Really wanted to see that damn outfit...pics would be great.

I am so sorry I missed you my friend and pictures will be forth coming. (Quite embarrassing too I might add). Was with a fellow poster that just retired from the Air Force as well that also wanted to meet you. Well, there's always Cleveland I suppose.

 

[GOLDBANGER]

Hate is a pretty strong word. There are plenty of objective people on this board. Many threads about the greatness of some of your wrestlers. So much so that even I, who have been pretty complimentary to PSU kind of get sick of it.

An objective person would admit that when you start off with 9/10 #1 weight class guys, you are starting with a pretty damn good hand. This is what most Iowa fans point out. He has more to work with at PSU than he did at Iowa State and its not even close. What are the difference situations between the two when Cael was at ISU and PSU? He was still freaking Cael Sanderson at ISU...top guys knew he was at ISU and knew that if they went there, they would be coached by them. So did Cael make a journey to the desert ala Jim Morrison on a hit of acid and come back with the solutions to it all?

As to the other stuff, #slushfund etc...I would ask you to objectively look at how many PSU douchebags and trolls we get in here. It's not about your guys or really even about your coach...it's about you (in the collective sense). You want hate? Look on BWI, the Mat etc...Part victory celebration and part the need to shove it in Iowa fans faces and rub it in and I don't know which one takes more space over there. Look at posts about Gilman, Brands and reporting on what we post over here. Hell...they are even reporting "Likes" over there right now. As in "Such and such poster Liked a post calling Cael a scumbag."

Is there jealousy? Heck yes. Is there excuse making? Absolutely. We're fans...refs don't call stalling, and the winner gets all the calls. Aren't you guys still pissed at Dean Heil? But a lot of this is reactionary, knee jerk comebacks...unless you objectively think Iowa fans should just lay down and let others rag our team and coaches. I welcome some of your guy's posts over here but this forum is for Iowa wrestling...not complaining about a few posters hating on Cael. Cael is a great coach and I'm sure he sleeps just fine at night.

I will be the first to admit that the douchebaggery abounds on BWI, but we don't have the market cornered that's for sure. I will also admit we have recruited EXTREMELY well since "Carl's" arrival. (We can poke some fun at ourselves ya know) Back in the day I'm not sure we were even jealous of Iowa we were that far out of sight from your achievements. Absolutely no one would expect, or even desire, you guys to lay down. It's not good for wrestling for any team to do so.

So, let the recruiting wars ensue and let the games begin anew next year.

Congratulations to Cory Clark, love that kid!!

 

[Kwoodhawk]

I am so sorry I missed you my friend and pictures will be forth coming. (Quite embarrassing too I might add). Was with a fellow poster that just retired from the Air Force as well that also wanted to meet you. Well, there's always Cleveland I suppose.

"Well, there's always Cleveland" sounds like a line from a Woody Allen movie..............

Or was it Casa Blanca...........

 

[pablow]

Cael is no different than Dan Gable. They both left their schools to coach elsewhere. But it was okay for Gable because he was a star and was great at Iowa. Well, Sanderson was also a star and quickly grew to become a star coach.

Of course, the claims now for success are that he is in fertile recruiting grounds and that is how he does it. Be for real! In Dan Gable's run of Nattys, the fertile grounds were the midwest. Iowa, Ok St, and Ok became the dominant teams. That's where the recruits came from Even as such, each pulled a few stud kids from other area just as PSU has recently done. (Texas, Minny, Calif. Ind) for example. . . .

.

You couldn't be more wrong - the stats contradict your claim.

Pennsylvania became the wrestling powerhouse well before Gable took over at Iowa. It did not happen in the post Gable era of 1998 - present. Gable put wrestling in the state of Iowa near the top. Whereas, it was the opposite with Cael, PA wrestling put Cael at the top. In fact, when Cael left ISU he stated that the wrestlers in the state of PA would be his ticket to taking PSU to national championships.

1928 – 1960 AAs
Individual Medals
Oklahoma 160 260
Pennsylvania 73 98
Iowa 72 113

1960 – 2011 AAs
Individual Medals
Pennsylvania 295 504
Iowa 186 350
Ohio 177 313
California 152 240

1928 – 1960 Champs
Individuals Titles
Oklahoma 63 100
Iowa 31 43
Pennsylvania 20 25

1960 – 2009 Champs
Individuals Titles
Pennsylvania 55 73
Iowa 45 68
Oklahoma 34 50

http://www.wrestlingstats.com/aa/home.htm​

 

[nyc10007]

I'd say if the talent wants to come to you, might as well use it. Their talent pool is seriously crazy. Tonight at 125 two pennsylvania wrestlers will square off for a title. Neither got heavily recruited by psu because they went after Suriano.

Imagine watching two Iowans wrestling each other Saturday night and neither is a hawk and it doesn't matter because we have it locked up anyway.

Some of it is demographics, unfortunately.

Iowa has a population of 3.1 million.

PA has a population of 12.79 million; New Jersey -- almost 9 million; and New York, almost 20 million.

Even if wrestling is much, much more popular in Iowa than in PA/NJ/NY, the numbers are really stacked against you.

 

[21Guns]

I sorta stopped reading at "Cleveland could yield"

The last time Cleveland yielded something, a lake caught on fire.

 

[nyc10007]

I respect good recruiting. And, by and large, when guys show up there they improve. He does it both well.

For me, the proof of Cael's coaching ability is that his kids come through in crunch time. You don't really see them choke, or fall victim to major upsets, like other programs do. You can say Penn State had a really talented roster, and that would be totally true, but to go 5 for 5 in the finals, when in 3 out of 5 matches they weren't favored? That's coaching, right there.

 

[FrontHeadlock2]

Some of it is demographics, unfortunately.

Iowa has a population of 3.1 million.

PA has a population of 12.79 million; New Jersey -- almost 9 million; and New York, almost 20 million.

Even if wrestling is much, much more popular in Iowa than in PA/NJ/NY, the numbers are really stacked against you.

NY guy here. This is correct. I said the same in another post.

The other important point is that the NY metro area is quite wealthy. That provides three advantages: (i) Bael can likely be a bit looser with scholly money, (ii) the whole area as a wrestling hotbed is growing at the elite level because families have money to throw at camps, tournaments, travel, private coaches, etc., and (iii) donations come back to the program and the post-collegiate wrestling club.

 

[pablow]

For me, the proof of Cael's coaching ability is that his kids come through in crunch time. You don't really see them choke, or fall victim to major upsets, like other programs do. You can say Penn State had a really talented roster, and that would be totally true, but to go 5 for 5 in the finals, when in 3 out of 5 matches they weren't favored? That's coaching, right there.

Nice job this year, but Cael's had his share of upsets and chokes - #1 Nickal beaten by #11 Martin last year, #2 McIntosh upset by #10 Hartman in 2015 and #3 McIntosh by #14 Perry in 2014, #4 Jenkins over DT and #2 Ruth by #7 Amuchastegui. Not to mention the Altons and Gulibon.

 

[jvclark]

I was thinking about your post this morning while driving and wanted to post my thoughts. I know you aren't speaking in hyperbole when mentioning what Cael and his team are doing and what they could do next year as they are really good. NO doubt. With that said, I wanted to put this years PSU performance in perspective.

They scored 146.5 points. I realize they didn't have suriano, but they also had a couple of upsets along the way. Both of those are part of wrestling so maybe it's a wash.. But back to the 146.5, hell of a tournament, no doubt, but places them 7th on the all-time NCAA scoring list. Behind 5 Iowa teams and the 2005 OSU team. Iowa's 1997 team, who you referenced scored 170, 23.5 more than this years PSU team.

Where does the 2017-2018 PSU team get those 23.5? Suriano alone could get them close, but that's assuming everything else goes the way that it did this year. Retherford, Nolf and Nickel are about maxed out on points(I hope!!). Can Joseph do what he did this year?(my money is that he is the 3rd best 165 next year). Will Hall still be an undersized 174lb and can he beat Valencia & Jordan again?(2 big 174s)

They will be loaded, but I can't write them in the record books just yet.

GO HAWKS!!

 

[jvclark]

For me, the proof of Cael's coaching ability is that his kids come through in crunch time. You don't really see them choke, or fall victim to major upsets, like other programs do. You can say Penn State had a really talented roster, and that would be totally true, but to go 5 for 5 in the finals, when in 3 out of 5 matches they weren't favored? That's coaching, right there.

Hold on there a minute. You are stepping out a limb with that statement. You are acting like those 3 "underdogs" were two 12 seeds with the other one being unseeded. Joseph was a 3 Nickel was a 2(and runner up last year) and the "worst" of the three was Hall?? A consensus number one recruit in the country last year and a 20 year old freshman to boot?

It may or may not be coaching as you so easily assumed, but we know for sure it was a threesome of amazingly talented recruits.

Come back to earth there assumption guy.

 

[nyc10007]

Hold on there a minute. You are stepping out a limb with that statement. You are acting like those 3 "underdogs" were two 12 seeds with the other one being unseeded. Joseph was a 3 Nickel was a 2(and runner up last year) and the "worst" of the three was Hall?? A consensus number one recruit in the country last year and a 20 year old freshman to boot?

It may or may not be coaching as you so easily assumed, but we know for sure it was a threesome of amazingly talented recruits.

Come back to earth there assumption guy.

Please, I beg you, don't put words in my mouth. I'm a trial lawyer by professuion & choose my words carefully. I merely said that 3 of PSU's finalists weren't favored. This is indisputable. As talented as they were, they were up against 2 returning, defending 2-timers with big-time reps. (I-Mar & Gabe Dean) & another total stud who won the last head-to-head ( Bo Jordan). Now, you can argue this just happened by itself, but, with respect, you're being stingy with your praise.

 

[24 so far]

Please, I beg you, don't put words in my mouth. I'm a trial lawyer by professuion & choose my words carefully. I merely said that 3 of PSU's finalists weren't favored. This is indisputable. As talented as they were, they were up against 2 returning, defending 2-timers with big-time reps. (I-Mar & Gabe Dean) & another total stud who won the last head-to-head ( Bo Jordan). Now, you can argue this just happened by itself, but, with respect, you're being stingy with your praise.

These things have happened before Sir. FYI

 

[cidhawkeye]

I was thinking about your post this morning while driving and wanted to post my thoughts. I know you aren't speaking in hyperbole when mentioning what Cael and his team are doing and what they could do next year as they are really good. NO doubt. With that said, I wanted to put this years PSU performance in perspective.

They scored 146.5 points. I realize they didn't have suriano, but they also had a couple of upsets along the way. Both of those are part of wrestling so maybe it's a wash.. But back to the 146.5, hell of a tournament, no doubt, but places them 7th on the all-time NCAA scoring list. Behind 5 Iowa teams and the 2005 OSU team. Iowa's 1997 team, who you referenced scored 170, 23.5 more than this years PSU team.

Where does the 2017-2018 PSU team get those 23.5? Suriano alone could get them close, but that's assuming everything else goes the way that it did this year. Retherford, Nolf and Nickel are about maxed out on points(I hope!!). Can Joseph do what he did this year?(my money is that he is the 3rd best 165 next year). Will Hall still be an undersized 174lb and can he beat Valencia & Jordan again?(2 big 174s)

They will be loaded, but I can't write them in the record books just yet.

GO HAWKS!!

Are the scoring systems the same?

 

[Azchief32]

Are the scoring systems the same?

I don't think so

 

[Cold Smoke]

I sorta stopped reading at "Cleveland could yield"

The last time Cleveland yielded something, a lake caught on fire.

It was a river. Cuyahoga River.

 

[jvclark]

Are the scoring systems the same?

To the best of my knowledge, the scoring system did change(before the year that Minny won with 10 all Americans, but no national champs). The change didn't affect 1st or 2nd place points, but it did change 7th and 8th. It made those lower places worth a little more. If I recall. Really, for the kind of seasons that Iowa had back then, and that PSU is having right now(with high placers or mostly champs), the rule change didn't really affect anything.

Does anyone know the changes for sure and when they took place? I think I am pretty close with this. It's one of the reasons Minny was able to win without any champs, as they scored more with all their lower placers.

If I recall, some people thought the NCAA put this rule in place to help other teams catch up with Iowa.

 

[ggcpsu]

To the best of my knowledge, the scoring system did change(before the year that Minny won with 10 all Americans, but no national champs). The change didn't affect 1st or 2nd place points, but it did change 7th and 8th. It made those lower places worth a little more. If I recall. Really, for the kind of seasons that Iowa had back then, and that PSU is having right now(with high placers or mostly champs), the rule change didn't really affect anything.

Does anyone know the changes for sure and when they took place? I think I am pretty close with this. It's one of the reasons Minny was able to win without any champs, as they scored more with all their lower placers.

If I recall, some people thought the NCAA put this rule in place to help other teams catch up with Iowa.

Also the bracket used to be a 64 bracket with byes whereas now it's 32 and pigtails. Iowa (and many other teams, for that matter) got 10 free points under old system for matches they didn't even wrestle. Using today's system the scoring record is actually 160.

 

[cidhawkeye]

I don't think so

Has anybody put the results into each scoring system to see how they compare?

 

[wasdt21]

same guy coached gulibon to 3 pins at big10s

 

[ISUChip]

Also the bracket used to be a 64 bracket with byes whereas now it's 32 and pigtails. Iowa (and many other teams, for that matter) got 10 free points under old system for matches they didn't even wrestle. Using today's system the scoring record is actually 160.

Not exactly. You didn't get the bye point (1.0 front side, 0.5 back side) unless you WON the next match.

There are also now more placement points available for 3rd-8th:
1997 Placing points: 16-12-9-7-5-3-2-1
2017 Placing points: 16-12-10-9-7-6-4-3

 

[ISUChip]

Iowa's 1997 tournament, using 2017 scoring (no pigtail byes, but higher placement):

118 - Whitmer (1st) - 16 placing + 4 advancement + 2 bonus = 22
126 - Mena (2nd) - 12 + 4 + 2 = 18
134 - Ironside (1st) - 16 + 4 + 3 = 23
142 - Gilliss (6th) - 6 + 3 + 6 = 15
150 - McIlravy (1st) - 16 + 4 + 4 = 24
158 - Williams (1st) - 16 + 4 + 5.5 = 25.5
167 - Uker (5th) - 7 + 3 + 4 = 14
177 - Ersland (DNP) - 0 + 2 + 0 = 2
190 - Fullhart (1st) - 16 + 4 + 3 = 23
HWT - Hand (DNP) - 0 + 1.5 + 4 = 5.5

TOTAL: 172

 

[rossel 33]

You couldn't be more wrong - the stats contradict your claim.

Pennsylvania became the wrestling powerhouse well before Gable took over at Iowa. It did not happen in the post Gable era of 1998 - present. Gable put wrestling in the state of Iowa near the top. Whereas, it was the opposite with Cael, PA wrestling put Cael at the top. In fact, when Cael left ISU he stated that the wrestlers in the state of PA would be his ticket to taking PSU to national championships.

This is one of the things that bugs me about Cael. Cael left ISU, his alma mater, after they canned Bobby Douglas to make Cael head coach. Cael betrayed ISU, purely to pursue glory by gaining an advantage in PA. He comes across as quiet and polite, but I think there is incredible self centeredness behind it.

 

[FrontHeadlock2]

This is one of the things that bugs me about Cael. Cael left ISU, his alma mater, after they canned Bobby Douglas to make Cael head coach. Cael betrayed ISU, purely to pursue glory by gaining an advantage in PA. He comes across as quiet and polite, but I think there is incredible self centeredness behind it.

Lol, this. How is this even controversial. Bael literally said as much.

Bael is a decent coach, but he knew the only way he could get it done was by the state of PA getting it done for him.

 

[theIowaHawk]

ISU has the pleasure of claiming two of the absolute best wrestlers of all time as alum, and scored 1 point last weekend.

Cael was right about where he could have taken them. That doesn't mean it was the right thing to do in leaving them from any other standpoint, but he was likely never going to overtake Iowa.

 

[FrontHeadlock2]

ISU has the pleasure of claiming two of the absolute best wrestlers of all time as alum, and scored 1 point last weekend.

Cael was right about where he could have taken them. That doesn't mean it was the right thing to do in leaving them from any other standpoint, but he was likely never going to overtake Iowa.

I don't know if that's right. All the PSU fans on the board would have me believe that Cael is by far both the best coach AND the best recruiter in the game right now. Are you suggesting he couldn't have won a national title at a historical top 5 wrestling program??

 

[theIowaHawk]

I don't know if that's right. All the PSU fans on the board would have me believe that Cael is by far both the best coach AND the best recruiter in the game right now. Are you suggesting he couldn't have won a national title at a historical top 5 wrestling program??

I'm not suggesting, history is. While at ISU he never beat Iowa as a wrestler nor as a coach. He has basically admitted as much regarding recruiting.

And yes, I understand you are being facetious.

 

[FrontHeadlock2]

I'm not suggesting, history is. While at ISU he never beat Iowa as a wrestler nor as a coach. He has basically admitted as much regarding recruiting.

And yes, I understand you are being facetious.

And yes, it's painfully obvious to anyone.